PSX4Droid pulled from Market!

[Anihil8ion2199]

My link


The Pandora must look really good now to anyone without an Xperia Play...

 

[craigix]

Let's make sure it's not just a GPL violation first.

 

[myownlittlworld]

Let's make sure it's not just a GPL violation first.

Doubtful, that would've been all over the news (you remember the "Oh Noes! Android must be GPLed along with Angry Birds!!!" BS we had last week). Furthermore, the folks at gpl-violations.org would've given him plenty of time to come into compliance before sending the squash request to Google. They're actually a really nice (if firm) bunch of folks.


Google's magnificently generic statement doesn't help their side much either.


Actually, reading their content policies, they probably received an unfounded DMCA notice from some company annoyed that folks were able to emulate the PSX. Who's with me in betting on Sony?


Side note: We couldn't have asked for a better advertisement for the Pandora. "A company that doesn't steal your games from you? What a novel idea!"

 

[Nintendo]

My link


The Pandora must look really good now to anyone without an Xperia Play...

If you download the apk from the web it would still be able to install and run without any modification of the system. Even though Google pulled it from its store, nothing is stopping ZodTTD from releasing it elsewhere or somebody else creating one and uploading it.

 

[htl2001]

Not surprised, just... disappointed in Google I guess. Sony knows/is willing to use every dirty legal trick they can.

 

[notaz]

Well it *is* GPL violation (it's PCSX port after all, with zod's/hlide's dynarec + una-i's GPU + some other people's code slapped on it), but that's not the reason it was pulled I guess.

 

[gadgetoid]

My link


The Pandora must look really good now to anyone without an Xperia Play...

If you download the apk from the web it would still be able to install and run without any modification of the system. Even though Google pulled it from its store, nothing is stopping ZodTTD from releasing it elsewhere or somebody else creating one and uploading it.

I'm not sure if it applies specifically to PSX4Droid, but ZodTTDs concerns applied specifically to people who *bought* one of his emulators, which has been pulled.


He now has to work out how to:


1) Supply existing paid-up customers with updates


2) Sell the emulator through an alternate channel


Google and their device manufacturing, OS perverting, update witholding cronies are no better than Apple, and I'm glad people are bringing up the Pandora as the alternative here. No platform with corporate interests the likes of Google, Microsoft or Apple behind it will ever be truly open. I hope this helps dispel the little bubble of bullshit that some Android fanbois seem to exist in.


I'm more than happy with my thoroughly closed smartphone which has pushed emulators and other "questionable" content into Cydia, and a Pandora (when mine finally arrives) for the things I can't do on said device.


Google folding to Sony's childish whining, when they can't even be bothered to effectively keep blatantly pirated apps from their store, or close accounts which have committed such piracy, makes Apple's absurd and draconian policies at least look consistent.

 

[myownlittlworld]

Another random point: If someone can prove that the app was pulled because of the Xperia Play, that might (very VERY arguably) run afoul of the FCC's really limited net-neutrality rules which prevent service providers from prohibiting services that they otherwise offer. You could make the argument through "removal of capability", but whether the argument would hold any water at all would be a very difficult thing to predict.

 

[laurencevde]

This is probably "someone" sending google a dmca-takedown notice, and google reacting according to the letter of the dmca (take down first, check later). He should just file a counter-notice (form can be found here), and see what happens.


Oh, and google sends the takedown-notices it recieves to chilling effects, so we'll see it end up there eventually...

 

[SNESFAN]

I just want to interject with a couple things here. The android market is controlled by google, you have to pay to get in, they control the content. You are not forced, and in some cases, are unable to use the market on your device.


Android it's self is open sourced and there are plenty of alternatives to the google android market and nothing stopping you from adding the content of your choosing to your device from any of those alternative sources. (minus carrier imposed restrictions)


Google, while supporting open source ideals, has a business to run, I don't know the details behind them removing this and other types of software that was in violation of their agreements with the application developer. But they are in full right to do with their market distribution source as they choose. You agree to it when you first run the android market, and the developer agrees to it when choosing to distribute their software in that market.


What is pointed out and focused on is the bad, but the market also ensures non-malicious software, the software remains sandboxed unless specified, the software tells you what other services or application it modifies before you install it, and that the program conforms to the restrictions set within the sdk. If you want stuff outside of that scope, agian, get your software elsewhere. And there is a user friendly way to do this(read no need to hack, enabled within the GUI)


It would be like criag pulling an app from his app store because it was in violation of anything. It could be downloaded at a alternate location. Luckily for us console emulation is legal.


What I think happened, sony attacked the most downloaded psx emulator in a throw shit at a wall and see what sticks tactic, and use the results of that to intimidate the lesser known emulators and rom downloaders that are still available on the market. Seeing how google and sony are working so closely together it makes sense the biggest competition for software sales for sony would be taken down. Selling a program that can play games you already own for (almost) free rather than repurchase the software for 5-6 bucks a pop.

 

[DavidBowman]

Google and Sony are working closely together?

 

[SNESFAN]

Google and Sony are working closely together?

on the sony ericson xperia play


trying to make android more friendly to game developers and devices with gaming controls

 

[DavidBowman]

I see. I never really thought about that. I figured Sony was simply taking the Android platform and running with it on their own. I haven't read anything either way honestly.


I still wouldn't necessarily point to the xperia play and say that is the reason the emulator was pulled. It could be any number of other agreement/license violations. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you're still right.


EDIT: On second thought, given that psx4android was based upon PCSX (I think), and I haven't been able to find the source code for any of ZodTTD's emulators... GPL violation?

 

[SNESFAN]

I see. I never really thought about that. I figured Sony was simply taking the Android platform and running with it on their own. I haven't read anything either way honestly.


I still wouldn't necessarily point to the xperia play and say that is the reason the emulator was pulled. It could be any number of other agreement/license violations. But I have a sneaking suspicion that you're still right.


EDIT: On second thought, given that psx4android was based upon PCSX (I think), and I haven't been able to find the source code for any of ZodTTD's emulators... GPL violation?

LOL, I just found out why it was pulled, in zodttd's effort to make the program user friendly, it linked to other applications that promote piracy by allowing you to search and download the bios and psx iso's.... who woulda thunk it? (rom buddy psx)fyi.. which is surprisingly still on the market ????


the application it's self is a legitimate application and they really can't say junk about it... psfse (spell?) doesn't have the linking to other programs or downloads. Here we were thinking it was a much more devious and bureaucratic reason. The reality is the same rules we have on this forum... don't link to rom search websites, and in this case, apps. =P

 

[second exodous]

I don't get how this would be a GPL violation. Even if it is not in the official Android market can't it be had in other non-official Android markets? I'm kinda confused about the whole market thing, I don't have an Android device so it is way over my head. I've actually put off buying Android devices because reviewers say that it can't use the Android market place, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay confusing.

 

[SNESFAN]

I don't get how this would be a GPL violation. Even if it is not in the official Android market can't it be had in other non-official Android markets? I'm kinda confused about the whole market thing, I don't have an Android device so it is way over my head. I've actually put off buying Android devices because reviewers say that it can't use the Android market place, waaaaaaaaaaaaaay confusing.

People confuse android with google. The os is like Linux, open sourced anyone can build from source, modify and make whatever modification they want. Google does not control that part of android.


The google market and other google brand apps, gmail, maps, google talk etc etc are all proprietary and closed sourced. They are not freely distributed and takes a bit of modification to get to work on a device that's not a google licensed device. Google "ports" their closed sourced apps to the device running open source android. It's much simpler than what you think of as a port due to universal compatibility between devices running android. It's simple enough I was able to do it on the odroid and I have no idea how to port anything.


Anyway archos devices aren't sanctioned by google due to non standard hardware and other factors, but the process of hacking in the official google software is lightly documented if you look hard enough.


As far as 3rd party markets, you can install a market app that installs other apps similar to cydia if you mess with iPhones and stuff, or the .Apk themselves can be installed via email, file manager or through the android debugging bidge ( like a serial over USB connection)


I understand android isn't your cup of tea, but I'm more than willing to explain in detail any part of it.

 

[second exodous]

Ah thanks johnsongrantr, it does make it more clear.


So what is the big deal with Google pulling PSX4Droid from their market place? I get that it is not illegal to use an emulator but it is their market place, if I owned a store and choose to stop selling a specific product for whatever reason what is the deal? Why would people get mad at me? People can go somewhere else to get that product if I don't sell it. Also, can't ZodTTD sell it in other markets or would it be possible for him to sell it himself? If there are multiple markets available to Android owners why is this even news? When Apple pulls apps iPhone users are screwed, no where to get that app, but when Google does it just%2

 

[SNESFAN]

Ah thanks johnsongrantr, it does make it more clear.


So what is the big deal with Google pulling PSX4Droid from their market place? I get that it is not illegal to use an emulator but it is their market place, if I owned a store and choose to stop selling a specific product for whatever reason what is the deal? Why would people get mad at me? People can go somewhere else to get that product if I don't sell it. Also, can't ZodTTD sell it in other markets or would it be possible for him to sell it himself? If there are multiple markets available to Android owners why is this even news? When Apple pulls apps iPhone users are screwed, no where to get that app, but when Google does it just buy the app from somewhere else.


I also do not understand how Google pulling it from their market place is a violation of the GPL though.

People are complaining because they paid for an app and it's gone, that or they are just stupid and looking for something to complain about. Like I said before, google supports open, but also has a business to run. If something is breaking the law or an agreement with a business partner they will pull an app. But in the end they control it and they could me more stict like apple that rejects apps if it provides the same service as something they provide just better, or sometimes just different. But they don't see that, they don't see the app store doesn't even allow emulators...


Anyway zod can and maybe does distribute his app on whatever he wants there really isn't anything stopping him, if he's complaining that his app has been removed, he shouldn't. There's plenty of less restrictive alternatives.


I think zod is in violation of gpl for not coming with it with his source code, not google. I hear that's a common complaint, that and getting updates and support from him is like pulling teeth, that combined with the not releasing his source makes, bug fixing even by other developers nearly impossible and frustrating. I am sure he has a lot of talent, but he's either strung too thin or just doesn't care. At least that's what it looks like.


He has my 6 dollars and I no longer have that app... But FPse works much better anyway so it doesn't matter

 

[WizardStan]

So what is the big deal with Google pulling PSX4Droid from their market place?

The big deal is not that it was pulled, but that Google says it was pulled for violating their rules, but no one can figure out which rule it violated.


Was it pulled simply because Sony asked that it be pulled, even though it was itself actually entirely legitimate? If so, Google is climbing into bed with a questionable company, which goes contrary to their "don't be evil" stance.


More than likely it was pulled either because it linked to an app which allowed you to download ROMs (which would at least be highly questionable, and possibly outright illegal in many places), or because of GPL violation. As it was based on a GPL program, the license requires that ZodTTD make the source available upon request within a reasonable time frame; I have yet to hear of a single person successfully obtaining the source. Break the GPL, someone files a complaint, down it comes.


Another reason a lot of people are mad is because they bought the app. By purchasing through the marketplace, they can reflash their phone (I think maybe also get a new one?) and simply download the app anytime they want without paying again. Now that it's off the marketplace, if anything happens to their downloaded copy, they have no option to redownload it again. Even if ZodTTD puts it up somewhere else, he'll likely charge for it there, and has no way of confirming who did or did not purchase it through google, so everyone would have to purchase it all over again.

 

[neko]

The official reason for removing it was that ZodTTD used the playstation "PS" logo as the app icon, and Sony complained that this was trademark infringement.


...or at least that's what ZodTTD claims.