Prospective Console Recruitment

[Exophase]

i think its a great move -the opensource gaming community has been lacking modern hardware- couple of things i.mx53, is it really cheap, what about ziilabs zms-20-40 pr ti omap 4460(like archos, omap has great linux support) why stick with single core (besides price). what about the formfactor...i know for us size doesnt really matter but what about other formfactors? slider/flip or bar.

I've said several times now, but most new high end chips aren't available to low volume projects that don't have any industry establishment. You can't just buy 500 of these from a vendor like Digikey or a warehouse in Hong Kong. For most of these processors you can't even get datasheets without being under NDA. This goes a step further for the products you mention which aren't available yet. Furthermore ZMS-20/40 and OMAP4460 are meant for tablets, hence why they can clock up to 1.5+GHz. In a mobile gaming form factor these things will kill your batteries quickly and burn your hands in the process.

The other formfactors you mention are more complex mechanically and therefore more expensive to design and more prone to failure. They're also more open to patent hell.

 

[jimclarson]

ive been checking back on this topic literaly every 5 to 2 hours waiting for updates and new posts because im so extatic at the idea of a dream console with a 1 ghz prosessor and for once be based on the main goal of comfort and ergonomics rather then pocketability, and i really really reeeeeaaalllyy am looking foward to this thing becoming a reality, but please please please, quality case construction and button controls are a must in this, i want this thing to be made of solid hard plastic with seamless gapless construction, just like the original gameboy. you could throw that thing against the wall and the most it would break would be a minor crack, stress mark or scuff. i want the thickness of the plastic used to be atleast 1/16 of an inch and for the buttons to be responsive and brescise and ergnomic. also one thing to add, i dont mind omething like the size of a gamegear, i actualy liked it because to me it gave me a really nice grip and felt right for playing handheld games in luxury. whereas the gameboy was cramped. so im wonding if with the design, actualy widening it a bit to give more gripping space for easy thumb movement and gripping.

also im surprised theres not more activity with this posting, im so exited im jumping in and out of my boots thinking about it!!!

 

[redlemon]

also im surprised theres not more activity with this posting, im so exited im jumping in and out of my boots thinking about it!!!

What's there to post about? It was just a call looking for more members. I wouldn't expect to hear any more for a long time.

 

[monstercameron]

also im surprised theres not more activity with this posting, im so exited im jumping in and out of my boots thinking about it!!!

What's there to post about? It was just a call looking for more members. I wouldn't expect to hear any more for a long time.

remember this post was about anyone interested in helping out with the dev of this new console, and not really an open discussion on the features of said device! but yeah where everybody at?

 

[Nintendo]

Nothing wrong with voluntary input and speculation.

 

[monstercameron]

Nothing wrong with voluntary input and speculation.

dammit, i have had that idea so many times its been driving me crazy...i first had that idea when the kyocera echo was announced. my version has two analogue sticks on the panel itself in the position where the d-pad and button pad would be(would be better for fps and racing games) and the buttons would be all on the touch screen.

 

[elitistlinuxuser]

Well you said the Arm Cortex A9 isn't available in low volume, well correct me if I'm wrong but I think Omap 4430 is available to low volume customers. I really think you should use a Dual Core Arm Cortex A9 it still allow the device to reach the magical 250 dollar price. If you don't know about more info here http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?contentId=53243&navigationId=12843&templateId=6123

 

[Exophase]

OMAP4430 is not available in low-volume through distributors like OMAP35xx is. You can even see it on the page you linked, at the bottom:

"Availability Disclaimer

This product is intended for high-volume wireless OEMs and ODMs and is not available through distributors. If your company meets this description, please contact your TI sales office."

It's not impossible that TI would make an exception for eon like they did for Pandora, but consider that when they approached Pandora they probably knew OMAP35xx was pending (that's not to say an OMAP45xx isn't, but we saw OMAP35xx availability before the first mainstream OMAP34xx devices hit..) This isn't really something eon can plan around.

Plus, OMAP4430 is only available in PoP right now, which is something eon is trying to avoid (ie, change i.MX538 in the original post to i.MX535)

I don't know if i.MX535 can really do 1.2GHz like Freescale says in some places, the information on this is pretty iffy and I know the QSB doesn't have it as some kind of obvious option.. and it probably uses more mW/MHz than Cortex-A9. But that'd close a lot of the performance gap vs 1GHz Cortex-A9 in single threaded stuff. For an emulator-focused device dual-core won't win an awful lot aside from looking nice on paper, at least not until more emulators take advantage of it.

 

[Exophase]

Oh, and, still no real electrical person on this. So bump for that. If any experienced professionals are interested in this contact me. This project really needs this more than anything to get off the ground. Don't make me beg MWeston/incur OPT's wrath ;p

 

[migo]

First thoughts: Go as off the shelf as possible (which seems to be what you're doing) so that you don't run into the delay problems the Pandora had. That's probably the biggest killer for it - having to wait until the average Android smartphone now has more power.

Second thoughts: Try to get it a bit smaller. At 4.8" it's pretty massive, and going into PSVita territory, and Sony's 0 for 2 in good mobile hardware design so far, I wouldn't think their example is the one to follow if you want anything more than the type of people who bought the Pandora to buy it. Nintendo's always been successful because of portability and battery life, and that shows quite clearly when you see the most successful models within a line are the smallest - GBA SP and DSLite. Given that, I think 4.8" is unnecessarily big, and 4" would be plenty. Particularly if you're emulating the image quality won't be great to start with, and you're topping out at 640x480 resolution (or I suppose 640x576 for PAL), so keeping it small will improve perceived image quality, bring down manufacturing costs (unless for some bizarre reason you can get a 4.8" screen cheaper than a 4" screen) and improve battery life.

And a question: How feasible is using digital sticks? The NeoGeo Pocket is the only device so far to have it, and it makes more sense for an emulator to have digital sticks than to have analog. I would think if they're engineered well, you're golden.

 

[jmetal88]

And a question: How feasible is using digital sticks? The NeoGeo Pocket is the only device so far to have it, and it makes more sense for an emulator to have digital sticks than to have analog. I would think if they're engineered well, you're golden.

Wrong! The GP32 and GP2X F100 both had digital sticks. The GP32 had a digital 'clicky stick' like the NGP, and the GP2X F100 had a digital stick that felt like an analog stick (so it kind of sucked).

 

[Exophase]

The only custom components on Pandora that I can think of (outside of the case and PCB of course) are the nubs and the batteries. This handheld is using off the shelf components for its sticks, although the ones I listed (CTS254) might be too small, in which case it may use the larger CTS252 instead.

In fact, 4.8" 800x480 screens ARE cheaper than 4" 800x480 screens. This shouldn't really alarm you, it's because smaller dot pitch is more expensive to manufacture.

Already talked about digital sticks. Seems to be a heated debate over which is "better" if you look for it, and it still makes no sense to me. Surely there must be more of a distinction than being the same mechanical device with different output thresholds, but no one seems to be specifying exactly what they're talking about..

 

[jmetal88]

The only custom components on Pandora that I can think of (outside of the case and PCB of course) are the nubs and the batteries. This handheld is using off the shelf components for its sticks, although the ones I listed (CTS254) might be too small, in which case it may use the larger CTS252 instead.

In fact, 4.8" 800x480 screens ARE cheaper than 4" 800x480 screens. This shouldn't really alarm you, it's because smaller dot pitch is more expensive to manufacture.

Already talked about digital sticks. Seems to be a heated debate over which is "better" if you look for it, and it still makes no sense to me. Surely there must be more of a distinction than being the same mechanical device with different output thresholds, but no one seems to be specifying exactly what they're talking about..

I think the digital sticks that people like are the ones with microswitches that 'click' when you hit the direction you're aiming for.

At least those are the ones that I like. I like the GP32 and NGP digital sticks, but I hate the GP2X digital stick.

 

[Exophase]

Find some examples of cheap/small off-the-shelf click sticks, I guess.. not very likely that it would be chosen over analog even then, though. Since this is supposed to emulate PS1 and N64 having analog sticks would be far preferable to having any kind of specialized digital-only sticks.

EDIT: Are we talking something like this? http://industrial.panasonic.com/www-data/pdf/ATR0000/ATR0000CE9.pdf

 

[migo]

Wrong! The GP32 and GP2X F100 both had digital sticks. The GP32 had a digital 'clicky stick' like the NGP, and the GP2X F100 had a digital stick that felt like an analog stick (so it kind of sucked).

Well that got me looking for a GP32 on Ebay, and it seems everyone's hanging on to theirs.

The only custom components on Pandora that I can think of (outside of the case and PCB of course) are the nubs and the batteries.

What about using CR123A/CR126A batteries? They're high capacity rechargable batteries that you can get from a lot of places, so 3-4 years from now if the devices is no longer supported it ends up still being usable as a portable. Longevity is always a good selling point.

In fact, 4.8" 800x480 screens ARE cheaper than 4" 800x480 screens. This shouldn't really alarm you, it's because smaller dot pitch is more expensive to manufacture.

That does make sense.

Find some examples of cheap/small off-the-shelf click sticks, I guess.. not very likely that it would be chosen over analog even then, though. Since this is supposed to emulate PS1 and N64 having analog sticks would be far preferable to having any kind of specialized digital-only sticks.

Wouldn't this be dependent on the PS Vita not getting hacked? If the Vita gets hacked and there's homebrew running on it as a result, and you've got a choice between it and a little known device that is pretty much only good for homebrew and emulation and no commercial games, it won't go very far. If on the other hand it uses digital sticks that are better suited to classic arcade games, it has a significant edge (GP32 is hard to come by, NGPC isn't exactly a powerhouse) as it can do certain things better than the Vita or any other device.

You're already looking at resistive, which is only reliable for single touch (a big drawback for games) vs front and back capacitive for the Vita, a smaller screen (yet still too big to be easily pocketable) with lower resolution, and you're not that likely to be able to undercut the Vita's $250 price point. Sony's done a pretty good job with the DualShock design for ~15 years, so presumably they'll do good analog sticks too. The reason ends up being officially supported homebrew and emulation, and nothing else.

 

[Exophase]

Wouldn't this be dependent on the PS Vita not getting hacked? If the Vita gets hacked and there's homebrew running on it as a result, and you've got a choice between it and a little known device that is pretty much only good for homebrew and emulation and no commercial games, it won't go very far. If on the other hand it uses digital sticks that are better suited to classic arcade games, it has a significant edge (GP32 is hard to come by, NGPC isn't exactly a powerhouse) as it can do certain things better than the Vita or any other device.

GP2X still sold despite being released after PSP was hacked, and being weaker in pretty much every way - what does that tell you? If this device sells similar numbers to GP2X it will be a success.

Thinking that digital sticks of all things will appeal to a significant number beyond that does not seem reasonable to me.

 

[monstercameron]

hey what about intel z-atoms, e-atoms, the n430 or the new n2600. I know they would literally eat away the battery but they would be much faster and the e-atoms are not that expensive to the 1ghz model.

 

[anexanhume]

Oh, and, still no real electrical person on this. So bump for that. If any experienced professionals are interested in this contact me. This project really needs this more than anything to get off the ground. Don't make me beg MWeston/incur OPT's wrath ;p

Damn, I would love to sign on but know I don't have the time or comprehensive tool knowledge to be solo on something like this. I can imagine how much time MWeston sunk into Panda being solo and there's just no way. Good luck the brave engineer(s) that signs on though!