GP2X Proposal For A "gp2x Deluxe" Brand


thebooboo

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Hello all,

The GP2X has been out for some months now, but I still feel it's missing a "killer app". Certainly there have been some great ports, emulators and original games for it, and some might say that the open nature of the system is in itself a killer app. But the bottom line is, I still play my DS and my PSP all the time, and hardly ever play on my GP2X. In my personal opinion this is because:

1. I personally only get limited enjoyment out of emulators. You can't (legally) enjoy them properly unless you have a big collection of old games, which then makes downloading the ROMs for them legal. If you don't own the originals, then you're effectively saying "GP2X is the best handheld for piracy" which is not the message I think we should be sending out.

2. A lot of the games are re-makes/clones of other games which are available in a more polished form as commercial games. Good examples of these are Vektar and Extender. These are both excellent and fun games, but you can't play them without thinking of Geometry Wars (360) and Every Extend Extra (forthcoming on PSP), which have a lot of extra sheen to them.

3. Most of the games are coded by lone coders, who don't have the time and resources to create games with the level of sophistication of a commercial PSP or DS release.

Whether or not you agree with me, these are all issues that a casual gamer would agree with on the GP2X (except 1. because most people, it seems, STILL don't have any moral qualms about piracy). But it doesn't have to be this way. Successful open source projects, such as GIMP, KDE etc. compare very favourably with their commercial, proprietary counterparts (Photoshop and Windows Desktop in this case) for usability, feature set and stability. It's in all our interests to prove that an open-source console CAN work, and to sustain this model for future generations of independent game developers.

So what am I proposing? I think we should introduce a "GP2X Deluxe" Brand that could be given to games deemed by a collective of GP2X scenesters to be of sufficiently high quality (a bit like the Nintendo seal of approval). A collection of these games could be bundled with new GP2Xs - making the console a far more attractive proposition. This would hopefully encourage more group efforts (perhaps via sourceforge etc?) and the emergence of games that can truly compete with commercial releases. This in turn would increase GP2X uptake and therefore increase the viability of commercial development for the system.

Here are my suggestions for criteria for the GP2X Deluxe brand:

1. Scene changes (such as changes between title screens/level screens) should be sone using fade effects or some other smooth transition rather than simply "chopping" between screens (99% of all commercial releases have this).

2. Games that are ports or re-makes should be self-contained (ie: not requiring users to locate shareware PC version of game etc.) and also be legal (not using protected IP eg: images of Sonic the Hedgehog). They should also have unique distinguishing features that seperate them from the original game, such as re-vamped graphics, extra levels, extra options, extra gameplay features.

3. They should be deemed to be as "substantial" in terms of lastability as an equivalent commercial release - obviously this is contraversial and subjective.

Please can you all let me know your thoughts on this - I am aware that some of the things I have said may offend some people, but I'm just trying to help move the scene forward.
 
The GP2X does need to make its own mark in the world of handheld consoles, aside from the plethora of ported emulators and the stench of piracy that comes with them (such as this forum's rules that you can talk about ROMs as much as you want, but just don't tell people where to get them because that would be bad, ok?).

Some original titles do need to come out for the GP2X that are not just ports or copies of games on other platforms. We've been promised announcements about commercial titles for a long time now, but like any promised announcement related to the GP2X, "next week" means "sometime within the next few months, if you're lucky".

The dev aspects of this forum have really died off recently, with the exception of Dzz and his demo development. That is the most exciting dev-related thing that has happened in recent times.

PS: A few comments on The GIMP that I agree with.
 
I've had the opportunity to see a rolling demo of an upcoming commercial game for the Gp2X, and I must say it suprised me. I think it'll certainly be in the "GP2X Deluxe" brand that you state, and it seems to be polished just like equivalent PSP/DS titles. If someone described it to you, you would be thinking the 2X would really struggle with such a game, but it seems to handle it very well.

So personally, I think the 2X is moving in exactly the direction you are stating.
 
Why are so many people concerned with the GP2X's image within the handheld game comunity? Why does anybody care whether or not it is perceived as a success or not? Surely, if you've got one you're laughing - it can do all sorts of stuff, and loads more stuff will come out for it over the next couple of years - people are still bringing out GP32 stuff!

I don't understand who you are trying to impress or convince with a 'deluxe brand' or seal of approval?

The only thing you can really hope for is to get more people developing for it...
 
There's a lot more to it than just having a killer app. Nintendo/Sony etc spend large amounts on marketing and can afford to do so because of their large customer bases which they've built up over many years.

Games manufacturers are going to put more money into the most popular consoles because they can sell more copies. Modern games cost a lot of money to make and involve large teams of artists and musicians as well as coders.

What the GP2X has going for it is its community and the openess of the platform. The GP2X is easy to develop for and GPH isn't trying to stop me doing it (maybe they should judging by my apps ;) ). This is why I bought a GP2X (well that and it's relatively cheap).

The GP2X could catch up but it won't happen overnight. I don't personally care if the GP2X becomes the most popular console in the world, I'm having fun anyway.
 
thebooboo posted on Apr 28 2006 at 05:32 AM said:
Hello all,
3. Most of the games are coded by lone coders, who don't have the time and resources to create games with the level of sophistication of a commercial PSP or DS release.

So what am I proposing? I think we should introduce a "GP2X Deluxe" Brand that could be given to games deemed by a collective of GP2X scenesters to be of sufficiently high quality (a bit like the Nintendo seal of approval). A collection of these games could be bundled with new GP2Xs - making the console a far more attractive proposition. This would hopefully encourage more group efforts (perhaps via sourceforge etc?) and the emergence of games that can truly compete with commercial releases. This in turn would increase GP2X uptake and therefore increase the viability of commercial development for the system.

I don't think that the creation of this label will in itself encourage anybody to work harder than they are currently working.

Are there any current programs that would earn this brand?

I'm not opposed to your idea; in fact all you have to do is invent a method by which it's decided what programs get your brand, and implement it, which should be very easy, so go for it. I'm not sure it will actually help much but it's trivially easy to try, so go ahead.
 
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I suppose what I'd need is for someone like EvilDragon to give Deluxe games a prominent placing on the GP2X file archive - although I'm not sure if he'd go in for that.

Yes, I am aware that there's a voting system on there already but hardly anyone votes, so the results aren't very representative. Take my fantabulous game, Level Shmup, for example. On the day it was released one person voted for it with 10/10, so after being online for 5 hours it was number 1 in the most rated chart! Now after a couple of weeks 5 people have voted for it and it's got a rather less fantastic 6/10.

What I would suggest is that there's a panel of judges who have to agree by unanimous vote for a game to be branded "Deluxe". After that it can be included on the software CD that comes with the new systems and given prominent placing on the file archive.
 
but, what for?

What will it achieve, apart from possibly putting people off from developing their own stuff because it won't be 'deluxe'? It's not even like there is any money changing hands - nobody is getting ripped off because they bought some lower quality software, are they?

It sounds to me like you just want to create some sort of backslapping 'club'...
 
The bottom line for me is that there are no games that have given me any serious lasting enjoyment on my GP2X.

I'm trying to encourage people to work together on proper, well-managed open source projects to create high-quality, free software for the GP2X. Software where you wouldn't be surprised to see a full-page review of it in a high-street games magazine.

I don't particularly want anyone to slap my back or anybody else's. What I want is for the opportunity the GP2X provides for the games industry to break out of the (corporation-controlled, high-risk and costly) revenue model it's currently in not to be squandered.
 
thebooboo posted on Apr 29 2006 at 01:02 AM said:
The bottom line for me is that there are no games that have given me any serious lasting enjoyment on my GP2X.

I'm trying to encourage people to work together on proper, well-managed open source projects to create high-quality, free software for the GP2X. Software where you wouldn't be surprised to see a full-page review of it in a high-street games magazine.

I don't particularly want anyone to slap my back or anybody else's. What I want is for the opportunity the GP2X provides for the games industry to break out of the (corporation-controlled, high-risk and costly) revenue model it's currently in not to be squandered.

Do you want to compare the ammount of money you have spent on games for your PSP with the ammount spent on your GP2X. I'm a retro geek, and I enjoy the retro games, which the GP2X does amazingly. When I think of quality homebrew titles, I think of Ur-Quan Masters, Exult, Duke2X, prdoom and countless others. I've already brought most of these games more then 10 years ago.

I'm not sure what you are expecting. If retro games bore you then its obviuos that your PSP would serve you well.

And I can admit freely that if my coder mates and I could put together a game worthy of a full page review, then I would sell it on the PSP or anywhere I could licence it rather then give it away for free. (I think the PSP is desperately in need of games that are worthy of a page of review.)
 
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Fair enough, but at the end of the day, you get what you pay for. The GP2X community is so small compared to anything else, that there just isn't the financial incentive for anybody to actually produce a polished product, and I know you aren't talking about commercial releases, but what other incentive is there?

My point is that rather than trying to filter out stuff that isn't 'deluxe', we ought to just encourage as much development as possible.

If there were thousands of games, apps, etc. available then maybe labelling some of them as 'deluxe' might be useful. Personally, I still try to download everything I possibly can and then make up my own mind...
 
As I said before, high-quality open source games would serve GP2X owners, small developers and the industry as a whole. Whichever of these groups we fit into as individuals, it's in our own best interests to contribute to this aim.

It's perfectly feasible to drive up the GP2X user base by creating enough commercial quality open source games for it to make the cost of buying a new GP2X less than the total cost of buying a similar collection of games for a "commercial" machine such as PSP. Imagine if your GP2X had come with a CD which contained 50 games of the quality of moderately sophisticated commercial titles such as Wario Ware, Lumines, Lemmings et al. The machine would have already more than paid for itself in the eyes of any gamer, not just the niche who are into emulators and hacking.

What's needed is sensible project management to spread the workload across a large number of talented artists, programmers and musicians.

Of course, now that I've spent the whole afternoon posting about it I suppose I'll have to do it just to prove it's possible, so I will.
 
I think it'd be nice to have the best games for the GP2X identified as such. It'd make things easier for a new user, especially if the 2X's library reaches the level of the GP32's. Instead of searching through, hoping they get a quality game, they can go straight to the Delux collection, and explore at a later date.
 
thebooboo posted on Apr 28 2006 at 10:02 AM said:
The bottom line for me is that there are no games that have given me any serious lasting enjoyment on my GP2X.

I'm trying to encourage people to work together on proper, well-managed open source projects to create high-quality, free software for the GP2X. Software where you wouldn't be surprised to see a full-page review of it in a high-street games magazine.

I don't particularly want anyone to slap my back or anybody else's. What I want is for the opportunity the GP2X provides for the games industry to break out of the (corporation-controlled, high-risk and costly) revenue model it's currently in not to be squandered.

I was thinking the same thing. I think one of the ways this could be accomplished is with a coding contest. If we could raise 1000 USD in donations, we could do a $500/250/100/100/50 structure for the winners. Give them enough time to code (say 3+ months), and require it to be an original game, possibly require open source. I'd do $50 towards the effort. 19 others and we have a contest. :)

There already is a small movement to get interfaces standardized, as every program seems to have a slightly different one. That would help, but it wouldn't have a signifigant impact on the actual quality of games produced.

Other than that, its simply a problem similar to homebrew on the PC. There's some good games, but very few really rival commercial quality. When you don't have years of man-hours to invest in a game, it simply cannot compete with modern game development budgets.
If I wanted to develop a free great game, I'd do it for PC to get the most people playing it, the fastest speed, and the best user interface. Most developers would rather create a great game than create a great GP2X game. And most developers would rather spend time improving the game than working on a port. I don't think I would ever try to make the best game I can make exclusive to the GP2X if I want people to play it. Few developers would.

I think realistically, ports and emus are the best chance to get us able to play some great games. If it's a port of a great commercial game and if you've never heard of them before, its new to you. :) As far as piracy goes, the way I look at it (and I think US law), if I buy a $5 Super Mario World cartridge, I can play it on my GP2X. I look at it the same as a commercial game available for the GP2X, and buy accordingly.
 
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arccos posted on Apr 28 2006 at 01:53 PM said:
I was thinking the same thing. I think one of the ways this could be accomplished is with a coding contest. If we could raise 1000 USD in donations, we could do a $500/250/100/100/50 structure for the winners. Give them enough time to code (say 3+ months), and require it to be an original game, possibly require open source. I'd do $50 towards the effort. 19 others and we have a contest. :)
I'd chip in for this, provided:
1) Some trustworthy escrow system is used (perhaps some trusted community member holds the money, or maybe there is an online escrow service that could be used somehow). The idea is to make sure that the people who promise money actually come through with it instead of disappearing.
2) Clear rules are provided. I don't care too much about what they are but it has to be clear whether ports are allowed, how the results are to be determined, etc
3) I would like to be able to enter and (possibly) win to get my money back :lol:
 
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what about the flip-side of this situation: i'm a hacker, i'd be quite happy to do something 'shiny and outstanding' for the gp2x, if i knew there was a decent audience for it.

as in, a paying one.

if there were a way to pay for a $5 game, some way, easily, i'd definitely pay for a good one. and if i knew there were, about, 100 or so people who might pay $5 for an outstanding effort, i might try a bit harder ..

the problem is, the organization of such an economy. setting up credit-card processing for only a few orders is a drag (and dangerous), so there just may have to be some other way for folks to pay for the good stuff ..
 
what if the "most downloads" section of the file archive was made more prominent? not that it's up to me or anything :) but i think it might be useful to put it above the sections links, and break it up into games & ports / everything else.

but there will be some commercial games soon enough, plus there's dzz's demo competition, the new firmware is out...these are exciting times for the gp2x.
 
I forget is it EvilDragon or Craig that is starting to help move along some commercial games for the gp2x.

The one I am SUPER SUPER SUPER excited about is Payback, check on this 'demo' (you can't play it but it runs on the gp2x and shows abunch of stuff)
http://www.gp2x.de/cgi-bin/cfiles.cgi?0,0,0,0,38,1475

Also Vektar is supposed to get significanlty upgraded and become commercial soon too.


I will probbaly end up buying both, but I will most defenitly buy payback even if it was $30.
 
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