Pre-order Dates


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This little post is tucked away in a little topic thats not getting a lot of attention, so I thought it was worth highlighting.

MWeston said:
Preorders will begin September 30th, 2008
Pandora will begin shipping Nov. 13th, 2008


Perhaps a pre-preorder for GP32X people can be established on September 15th for those who know they want one and don't mind paying sooner to guarantee their system? I guess that will be up to individuals to decide; totally optional of course.

This is my closest estimate based on lead times I see today. The 13th is my birthday, but mid-November is more accurate. :) Sorry, it's a big project with few people. I'm trying for October, but why kid myself? This is more realistic. The launch will happen, but it will blow every time line we have ever established. Everyone here knows this isn't being done by a huge company with a mega staff so I truly hope the core of this community understands and respects that. As Craig always says, this has to be done right the first time.

Anyone who thinks they can come along and just whip one of these devices out (like the Zephyr) is totally kidding themselves. It is a huge, huge task! I haven't seen Chad in a while but I'm sure he'll be back to rip me a new one, but what can I do? I'm just one guy and I am already on this seven days a week. My focus will remain to make solid hardware, a strong functional case and a stable kernel with support for every piece of silicon inside the Pandora. That is basically what I am attempting to wrap up over the next few weeks. I already have a nice list of things based on the last batch of prototypes. As far as any application software goes, I really don't care. That's the easy part that any code savvy person can handle and we have lots of people dying to jump in on that.

There really isn't any "secretive crap". It just seems like nothing takes the time expected. We lost an entire two months with slow assembly and broken boards. It was a freakin' nightmare but now we are moving ahead again. We have to post some estimation date on the website for people viewing the site to see that this is in development and not some far off in 2009 project and at the time of posting, it always seems logical to expect completion by that date.
 
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I wonder, if pre-orders sell out immediately, will that give enough time for a second batch to be ready by Christmas? Could be a great release timeframe in the end.
 
I see some of my comments have been "quoted". :lol: I'm just glad my post got read and my topic got something out of it!

Great news. Like I said before, I don't care if preorders are in October or November, I just like to be kept in the know about these kinds of things, as per most product releases. Delays are to be understood with small projects of these kinds, and I completely understand that, but just keep us posted as you are now.

As for the post content itself, I'd love the opportunity to preorder as soon as possible. It would ease my mind considerably to know that my Pandora was secure, and I'm sure many others feel the same way. I hope the last stretch of development goes smoother than it has so far!
 
Totally directed at MWeston on this one.

MWeston said:
...
Perhaps a pre-preorder for GP32X people can be established on September 15th for those who know they want one and don't mind paying sooner to guarantee their system? I guess that will be up to individuals to decide; totally optional of course.

*raises hand, points at self*

MWeston said:
This is my closest estimate based on lead times I see today. The 13th is my birthday, but mid-November is more accurate. :) Sorry, it's a big project with few people. I'm trying for October, but why kid myself? This is more realistic. The launch will happen, but it will blow every time line we have ever established. Everyone here knows this isn't being done by a huge company with a mega staff so I truly hope the core of this community understands and respects that. As Craig always says, this has to be done right the first time.
And I'd much rather it be done right. I'm very sure most people around here feel the same way.

MWeston said:
Anyone who thinks they can come along and just whip one of these devices out (like the Zephyr) is totally kidding themselves.
Did that make it into the LOLfiles? I definitely thought it deserved it, for two reasons. The lack of any real research put behind it, and a total disrespect for the amount of work that has already gone into the Pandora project thus far.

MWeston said:
I haven't seen Chad in a while but I'm sure he'll be back to rip me a new one, but what can I do?
:lol:

MWeston said:
I'm just one guy and I am already on this seven days a week. My focus will remain to make solid hardware, a strong functional case and a stable kernel with support for every piece of silicon inside the Pandora. That is basically what I am attempting to wrap up over the next few weeks.
Let me assure you, as impatient and inconsiderate as some of this community seems, it is greatly appreciated.

MWeston said:
I already have a nice list of things based on the last batch of prototypes. As far as any application software goes, I really don't care. That's the easy part that any code savvy person can handle and we have lots of people dying to jump in on that.
We know and are grateful that you are not Apple. The applications can be developed / ported by anyone with enough free time.

MWeston said:
There really isn't any "secretive crap". It just seems like nothing takes the time expected. We lost an entire two months with slow assembly and broken boards. It was a freakin' nightmare but now we are moving ahead again. We have to post some estimation date on the website for people viewing the site to see that this is in development and not some far off in 2009 project and at the time of posting, it always seems logical to expect completion by that date.
I wont lie, many people here do hold you to the release dates, and have been repeatedly disappointed. Be it out of ignorance of the hurdles involved, the expectations people have come to have by major corporations that manufacture similar devices, or simple impatience, you have seen certain individuals express disappointment over dates that have been missed multiple times. I go back to the "get it right the first time" phrase, though- I would not be looking forward to this device as much if you were only going for a randomly picked date rather than "when it is ready". That is part of the charm of the device.

You are not alone. The amount of curiosity, criticism and sheer number of people waiting for this device is proof that you've started a real movement. I want it when it is done, period. Who's with me?

*signals for a group hug*
 
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Oh... well that's a little disappoint and ...appointing? at the same time. At least we now know rough dates, and hey, that's a good thing

I'M STAYING OPTIMISTIC! (Also I get more time to get money for SD Cards)
 
*group hug signal accepted*

I would also be willing to pre-order on September 15th.


Wow! I can't believe the Pandora release dates are that close to being solid. A few weeks, give or take, I'll bet. But still, to have something as close to a real date as this makes me excited all over again. :D
 
Im glad to see a date like this but it will be hard to wait so long.

Is there anything that the community can do to help speed release? (I'd imagine not but its worth it to ask)
 
I really need/want to be able to preorder on the 15th. I'm going on vacation on the 20th, and I'd hate to have to worry about where in China or Japan I'm going to be when the preorders get going. Heck, I'd be willing to preorder now.
 
[rant]

AireTamStorm said:
Be it out of ignorance of the hurdles involved, the expectations people have come to have by major corporations that manufacture similar devices, or simple impatience...
I'm sure the Craig, MWeston, etc. are all great guys and it is very commendable that they are taking on such a large (and potentially ground-breaking?) task, and I understand that there are many hurdles involved in taking on such a large project, but come on...you can't always put the blame on the people every time they complain about a delay. You can only give the Craig, MWeston, etc. "immunity" for so long every time a delay happens. Yes, I recognize that these delays are often times out of their hands (such as the shipping fiasco), but does that mean that we are in the wrong by complaining about the delays? Craig, MWeston, etc. are still the people backing the Pandora and have a certain responsibility (not the responsibility to make a handheld for me or give me frequent updates, but the responsibility to be ready to take the heat when so many delays occur and understand that people will rightfully complain).

I've been following the Pandora since it was first announced on here in 2007, and I must say I'm whole-heartedly disappointed that users here are given so much crap for complaining about the delays (anyone remember the initial Spring estimate? Then it was May/June for a little while. Then it changed to the long standing June/July estimate. Then for a short while August seemed like the month, but that was soon changed to September. And now here we are November...). What has made it seem even longer is that often times someone from the Pandora team would make a post here saying that an update will be made "soon" (how many times have we heard that ambiguous "soon"?), and an update is never made or is made a lot later than expected; these posts get people's hopes up and leave them disappointed when nothing comes to fruition for a while (but of course many forgive and forget and cream their pants immediately when an update IS posted, even if the update is not exactly what people expected, such as the relatively low-quality pictures of the Pandora*).

The level of Pandora fanboy-ism here is ridiculous when you consider all the flak that these very same people tend to give to PSP or DS fanboys. Only would a fanboy post the kinds of responses I'm seeing (" YESSSSSSSS") after finding out that the release/pre-orders have indeed been delayed. Or are people just so desperate for getting a release/pre-order date (if so, you do realize that these are still estimates and could possibly be delayed just like the estimates of May/June, June/July, etc. were delayed)?

Anyhow, my main point is that people should recognize that many delays have been made and people shouldn't give others such crap or a hard time for complaining about delays (I'm not an impatient person, I know that a major corporation isn't making this handheld, and I'm not completely ignorant of the hurdles, thank you very much). I'm sure MWeston and Craig recognize that many delays have been made and would understand people complaining about the delays.

I still support the endeavors of the Pandora team, I still plan on keeping an eye on this great project, and I still plan on purchasing a Pandora. I was just getting tired of the extreme Pandora fanboy-ism against any sort of comment about a delay that wasn't sugar-coated or sandwiched with compliments to Craig, MWeston, etc. :)

*I know that it was late and Craig did not have the best resources available to him at the time, but does it not remain that people were expecting pictures that were higher quality or brighter than those that were posted?

[/rant]

Sorry about the little rant.
 
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Hear hear Azure, I want to see 3 forums, those mad, those happy, and those in the middle, then we won't ever have any arguments :rolleyes:

I for one can't afford one this year, but I still want it released sooner rather than later.

Plus I don't want this one to fail because if it does then we are screwed. There are no good homebrew handhelds. We can mobilize a Beagleboard on our own, but it will be the size of an EeePC and cost twice as much to get the same features as the Pandora (I would probably give most of them up to keep down cost.)
 
I just want to say that I would be willing to pre-order early, if such an option was to be made available. :p
 
I'm happy that we have a date.
Not so happy about the date itself.


I'm being cautious here, it's still a ways off, there could still be more delays.
 
This always seems to happen to me, something I'm waiting for gets announced, and I get interested in something else. Now I have two choices, a steinberger, or a Pandora...What to do, what to do....
 
Azure said:
[rant]
Sorry about the little rant.
Some of my best quotes come from rants. No problem.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not giving the Pandora team an excuse to be late to work or anything here. Some of these delays have been caused by unforeseeable events, though. I'm trying to show some understanding for that.

Mr Yoshida goes to work by walking a mile to the subway, changing rails twice and then walking another mile to his office. He's running a little late, so he calls it in. His employers are upset. :( On the way, he gets robbed at knifepoint in the first half mile, had his briefcase thrown in the river so that the thief could get away. Drops his cell phone in the water chasing his briefcase downstream, so he cannot call in to work again. Somehow he makes it back, but he misses his train ride, waits for the next one. :( That train has a fire in the rear car, for which the car stops. After it is put out. the train gets hijacked, unbeknown to the hijacker that the entire mid car (including poor Yoshida) was being held ransom. It derails three stations up from the exit, so Yoshida takes a taxi back to his connecting rail. Taxi gets a flat. He ends up walking, and runs into his friend, the guy who held him at knifepoint earlier that morning. <_<

By the time Yoshida gets to work to explain himself to his employers, the workday is over. Only, since the knife guy took his wallet AND his briefcase with his credit cards in them, he's no way home. :(

Now, was Yoshida wrong to think he could get to work just a little late today? No. Did it end up like that? No. Is this a gross exaggeration of the events that happened? Yes. :lol: I've been following this since late '07 as well, right around the time it was announced. My disappointment over the canceled XGP was completely blanketed by this. I remember "Spring", then "May / June", and "August". I'm sure many of us are coming up on their first year anniversary of anticipation for this device. I've run into over a hundred scenarios in life since where I really could have appreciated a device as versatile as the Pandora on me RIGHT THEN. But even so, I'm going to be patient on the issue. In doing so, am I attacking people who are (rightfully?) impatient? No. I'm expressing my support for the project, regardless of the problems that have occurred.
 
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Azure said:
I'm sure the Craig, MWeston, etc. are all great guys and it is very commendable that they are taking on such a large (and potentially ground-breaking?) task, and I understand that there are many hurdles involved in taking on such a large project, but come on...you can't always put the blame on the people every time they complain about a delay.
No. I agree that the attitude of many members here is unacceptable, but I keep my mouth shut because the moderators seem to think it's alright. Nonetheless, we should still be able to explain that the crew working on the Pandora is small.

Azure said:
You can only give the Craig, MWeston, etc. "immunity" for so long every time a delay happens. Yes, I recognize that these delays are often times out of their hands (such as the shipping fiasco), but does that mean that we are in the wrong by complaining about the delays? Craig, MWeston, etc. are still the people backing the Pandora and have a certain responsibility (not the responsibility to make a handheld for me or give me frequent updates, but the responsibility to be ready to take the heat when so many delays occur and understand that people will rightfully complain).
Yes, you are wrong in complaining about the delays. CraigIX, MWeston, and DJWillis (am I missing anyone else?) have always said dates they give are never final, but instead are what they think might happen. When they give a time or date, don't take it as a guarantee.

Azure said:
I've been following the Pandora since it was first announced on here in 2007, and I must say I'm whole-heartedly disappointed that users here are given so much crap for complaining about the delays
Well, here's the deal: the Pandora is a large undertaking for such a small group. When you've got goals so high, and plans so tight, any mishaps outside of their control (UPS and FedEx incidents, to name a few) are bound to hurt.

When they are hurt, the community needs to realize that, within this context, they shouldn't complain, because the dev team is doing everything they can.


I guess if you think you have a right to complain, you should probably question whether the Pandora team is "worthy" to take up this project in the first place. Maybe small groups (*coughopensourcecough*) shouldn't tackle large problems, because that means dates might be missed and tentative promises won't be kept like the rich groups do. Wouldn't that be a tragedy? ;)


My suggestion is, if you're gonna join this community and follow the updates, realize who the Pandora crew is and what they are capable of. If you complain about stuff that's completely outside of that team's control, you should expect to be corrected (nicely). :p
 
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:pandora1: :pandora1: :pandora1:

this is great news! late? early? i don't care. i understand the amount of work that goes into something like this though, and i'm impressed no matter what. at least now i know i'll have plenty of time and money to finish my other tech projects before the Pandora arrives.

now i just need to see about ordering an empty Pandora case filled with lead... so i can use it to smack my iPhone loving, Pandora doubting friends in the face. :lol:

mechanizeddeath said:
i'm personally expecting a september preorder followed by an october or november release.
also, looks like i wasn't too far off. ;)
 
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AireTamStorm said:
...In doing so, am I attacking people who are (rightfully?) impatient? No. I'm expressing my support for the project, regardless of the problems that have occurred.
I guess that would be the key point there. I may have misinterpreted your post as slighting those that complained about the delays. However, my main point lies in the word "rightfully" (perhaps a poor choice of words considering its connotations). The issue comes down to whether it is reasonable for people to be complaining or not. I get the feeling that a lot of people here think that people shouldn't be complaining about updates. I feel that enough delays have occurred that complaints should be expected.

Of course, things would be different if development of the Pandora was as transparent as Mr. Yoshida's commute to work :lol:

javaJake said:
No. I agree that the attitude of many members here is unacceptable, but I keep my mouth shut because the moderators seem to think it's alright. Nonetheless, we should still be able to explain that the crew working on the Pandora is small.
You should be able to explain that the crew working on the Pandora is small, yes. I realize this, too. But, say, the Pandora gets delayed again until Spring 2009. Even then would you find it unacceptable for people to complain about the delays? I am curious as to the attitudes you're referring to (they may be of different people than those I was thinking of; I do believe Chad's response was harsher than the type of complaining I had in mind).

javaJake said:
Yes, you are wrong in complaining about the delays. CraigIX, MWeston, and DJWillis (am I missing anyone else?) have always said dates they give are never final, but instead are what they think might happen. When they give a time or date, don't take it as a guarantee.

:lol:

So, as long as the Pandora team qualifies their statements as estimates and never guarantees, people have no right to complain (irregardless of how many times their estimates prove to be inaccurate, whether from matters outside of their control or not)? Wonderful. I was always under the impression that people are responsible (to varying degrees, but never not responsible to any degree) for when they fail meet to meet estimated deadlines.

javaJake said:
Well, here's the deal: the Pandora is a large undertaking for such a small group. When you've got goals so high, and plans so tight, any mishaps outside of their control (UPS and FedEx incidents, to name a few) are bound to hurt.

When they are hurt, the community needs to realize that, within this context, they shouldn't complain, because the dev team is doing everything they can.
I guess if you think you have a right to complain, you should probably question whether the Pandora team is "worthy" to take up this project in the first place. Maybe small groups (*coughopensourcecough*) shouldn't tackle large problems, because that means dates might be missed and tentative promises won't be kept like the rich groups do. Wouldn't that be a tragedy? ;)


My suggestion is, if you're gonna join this community and follow the updates, realize who the Pandora crew is and what they are capable of. If you complain about stuff that's completely outside of that team's control, you should expect to be corrected (nicely). :p


What I wonder is exactly how much of the delays have been 100% out of the Pandora team's hands. Like I said earlier, things would be very different if the development was 100% transparent and we saw everything happen as it happened (in which case I believe complaints would be largely minimized; I, at least, wouldn't be complaining). Of course, 100% transparency is impractical and not to be expected, but I bring it up to point out that, though we are given updates, there's a lot that's left in the dark every time a delay occurs, and, as such, it should be not out of the ordinary for there to be complaints and frustrations after so many delays.
 
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