Pandora vs. Touch Book

[Prestidigitator]

I think the buzz about this product has been out there for a while, but I only ever heard of it yesterday. I'm really interested to know how it compares to the Pandora with respect to hardware performance potential. They are both ARM devices, but I don't know how the Cortex of the Pandora stacks up compared to the OMAP 3--oh man I must be using the terms so incorrectly!

I am definitely getting the Pandora, but I also love the idea of a slightly larger device for some properly bedside computing or media watching. I'm just concerned that all I'm buying is a larger Pandora with the same computing power. Would appreciate your insight!

https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/

 

[Exophase]

Pandora is using an OMAP3 chip too. This doesn't say which one is being used, so it's unknown if this is using one that has the 3D chip and/or the DSP.

 

[danielpwnsricky]

I think the buzz about this product has been out there for a while, but I only ever heard of it yesterday. I'm really interested to know how it compares to the Pandora with respect to hardware performance potential. They are both ARM devices, but I don't know how the Cortex of the Pandora stacks up compared to the OMAP 3--oh man I must be using the terms so incorrectly!

I am definitely getting the Pandora, but I also love the idea of a slightly larger device for some properly bedside computing or media watching. I'm just concerned that all I'm buying is a larger Pandora with the same computing power. Would appreciate your insight!

https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/

the cortex of a pandora? yes, you are definitely using the terms wrong. (by the way, the pandora is using an OMAP3 chip too.)

the size makes a big difference. can you fit that thing in your pocket? is it going to be easy to play games with those controls? it's not a larger pandora with the same computing power, it's just a different netbook. also, i can't seem to find the processing power of the machine or which OMAP3 chip it's using. it will never compete with the pandora, they're still different things.

however, it is a nice netbook, good to see they're making ones with ARM processors. the internal USB slots are cool too.

 

[axenzoku]

I couldn't see someone holding a netbook in the air (off a desk surface) using their thumbs the way you would with a handheld gaming device ... heh

 

[second exodous]

I ordered one just for the bigger screen to watch on plane flights, that for me is a big plus. I often have flights more than 9 hours and notebooks/netbooks just don't cut it. I have a Pandora pre-ordered but I wanted a bigger screen just for watching. I think it would also be a little better for Openoffice.

Playing games won't be done on it much though unless It's multi-player with game pads of some sort. The lack of controls makes the Touch Book kinda useless for a hand held gaming machine.

Also, I want to get ScummVM running on it. I think a great way to retire it would be to run all the educational games like Pajama Sam and Buzzy the Knowledge Bug for kids. I think this loaded with 16 GB of Scumm games would kick the crap out of a leap pad.

However, I emailed them asking the specifics of the hardware and asked them to compare it to the Pandora specifically. All I really got was 'it is very similar hardware'. This was a while ago and I don't think the hardware was finalized yet, but sometime this month they are going to post the final specs. I kinda feel like it's taking forever, but I got an update e-mail saying it was going to be released on time, so this month as they originally said May or June.

Anyway, for games I'll use Pandora, for trips I'll use the Touch Book for video/typing. I hope the hardware is exactly the same, well, except the wireless isn't that important, as I would like to have the exact same configuration on both. The Touch Book will actually help the Pandora I suspect, it will probably have a lot of hackers getting Ubuntu, Gentoo, and Amstrong running on it perfectly, and this could in turn be used on the Pandora. Just another ARM computer to push things along.

 

[squall987]

edit: was asking about touchbook price but it seems to be on the official site.. 399? Lower than I expected, I admit.

 

[Znirk]

They are both ARM devices, but I don't know how the Cortex of the Pandora stacks up compared to the OMAP 3--oh man I must be using the terms so incorrectly!

A bit of terminology. Not that I know a lot about any of this, but I'm pretty good at rephrasing Wikipedia at people:

ARM is a company that designs processors, and sells these designs to other companies who do the actual manufacturing (after, in some cases, some redesigning). Since ARM has been around for a long time (in computer years) and does designs for very different markets, the statement "Both are ARM devices" is true but unhelpful: A huge number of cell handsets, media players, palms, but also medical monitoring equipment, industrial robots etc. are ARM devices. Your car might contain some kind of ARM hardware, for that matter.

Cortex is the current "generation" of ARM designs. There's another source of confusion here in that ... the instruction set, I believe? ... in those designs is called ARMv7, and the older version ARMv3 is sold under the names "ARM6" and "ARM7". The message you need to take from that last sentence is simply that, although some of the naming appears similar, the ARM Cortex A8 processor (implementing ARMv7) in a touchbook or pandora is not the same thing as the ARM7 (implementing ARMv3) in an ipod.

OMAP 3 ... remember how ARM designs, and other companies manufacture? That means that all those other companies have their own product names on top of everything else. If an ARM Cortex A8 design (with optional graphics and DSP hardware baked in) is manufactured by Texas Instruments, they call the result OMAP 3.

 

[Exophase]

A few corrections:

ARM7 CPUs implement ARMv4 instruction set.
OMAP35xx is not just an implementation of Cortex-A8 with an optional DSP and 3D accelerator. It has a ton of other peripherals and buses. These chips are called "System on a Chip" and if you add NAND and RAM they can do everything a computer can with lots of ways of talking to the outside world.

 

[second exodous]

I think the answers to the question asked are getting way to in depth. I think the question summarized is this:

I'm really interested to know how [the Touch Book] compares to the Pandora . . . I'm just concerned that all I'm buying is a larger Pandora with the same computing power.

Both devices in question are based on the BeagleBoard so the processing capabilities will be very similar. They have the same speed of processor, the same processor, and the same amount of memory.

So the Touch Book is a 'larger Pandora' minus the game controls and SD card slots, the Touch Book only has a micro SD slot.

Is this a clear answer?

 

[squall987]

Yeh.. the Touchbook is heftier than I thought.. And what's the point of detaching it from the keyboard? When detached it has only 3-5 hour battery life.. When attached, it takes up twice as much space and requires a battery for both keyboard section and tablet section.

What makes touchbook superior to any variety of netbook currently on the market? This need not be answered, I'm no longer interested in the touchbook.. But I'm still waiting anxiously for the Pandora!

 

[second exodous]

Like I said in my first post I'm getting both but for different reasons. I'm not getting the Touch Book for games, that's for sure. The Touch Book has huge advantages over other netbooks, but not over gaming capabilities of the Pandora or any other gaming handheld for that matter.

 

[darkblu]

actually it's nice to see them getting this far.

one thing in their design that still seems dubious to me are the internal USB connectors - i'd prefer an internal miniIDE connector, giving me the option to attach anything that matches the 2.5" hdd form factor (SDD, CF adapters, etc), as USB is not exactly the king of storage buses.

oh, and it seems they do have the SGX-equipped OMAP too - i saw them mention their 3d GUI somewhere on their site.

 

[axenzoku]

Yeah, smaller means easier to sneak in the bathroom with you to watch some of your "favorite" videos :lol: And being able to fit in your pocket is even better h34r: married people will know what I'm talking about (but not newly weds) Sorry I just had to... It's just another advantage of the Pandora lol

 

[second exodous]

i'd prefer an internal miniIDE connector, giving me the option to attach anything that matches the 2.5" hdd form factor (SDD, CF adapters, etc), as USB is not exactly the king of storage buses.

This is one thing I hope ARM remedies. Out of all the things that ARM chips lack to be netbook, notebook, or even desktop chips is the SATA connectors. USB is slow and becomes clogged easily. Even USB 3 will have the same problems, it will still be slower than current SATA speeds. USB shouldn't be used for mass storage. I'm sure after ARM powered netbooks become more popular ARM will have some sort of bus that is for mass storage built into it. Heck, firewire would be a better bus for mass storage than USB, but SATA standard would be the best.

This is really a ARM limitation, not a Touch Book or Pandora problem.

EDIT:

Well, not really on subject, but last week this was posted on the Touch Book site:

Info about the Touch Book coming next week

Next week, we will start updating our pre-customers as well as our visitors about the release of the Touch Book during the summer. You can expect photos and information about our cute little device. Stay tuned and thanks for your patience!

The Always Innovating Team
Friday, June 12, 2009

Tomorrow that will be a week, so hopefully we'll get the final specs of it.

Oh, and one more thing, can there be a Touch Book forum here? It's pretty open isn't it? I thought this thread would be closed a long time ago since its more about the Touch Book than the Pandora. If Touch Book had a forum here it could just be moved. Just an idea.

EDIT EDIT:

Ah, just realized the Touch Book is a netbook, not a handheld, but since software development for it might help software development for the Pandora maybe an exception could be made?

EDIT EDIT EDIT:

Ah beans, no update. Well, it didn't say 'within a week' so the update could come out today, Friday, or tomorrow. I'm crossing my fingers.

EDIT EDIT EDIT EDIT:

Info On this Wednesday

The pictures and info we want to release require a couple of days of additional work. Please come back on Wednesday morning for the full update. We apologize for any inconvenience and we thank you again for your patience!

The Always Innovating Team
Saturday, June 20, 2009

Ok, so just 3 more days. I really hope that the video/pics/info really gets posted this time.

 

[Prestidigitator]

Guys, thanks for pitching in your knowledge and opinions.
I guess it's like I thought; the Touchbook will be a larger, tablet-hybrid, Pandora, minus game controls. I guess that will have some use for an overall more comfortable computing experience, sometimes.

Did you guys see that they posted full specs?
https://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/info.htm

If these are suitable for a back-to-back comparison with the Pandora specs, then by all means, please volunteer such a comparison! You can tell by my OP I'm not quite technical enough...

 

[second exodous]

Same level of hardware, the only difference is the Touch Book can only use one SD card while the Pandora can use two. For a device that can't use HD's this is a pretty big disadvantage, I wish the touch book would have one internal and one external. At least they changed to a full size SD.

The Touch Book has a 3D accelerometer so it can play games like this but not as big, digital, and hopefully without those guys in it. Depending on what accelerometer they use it might also be able to have a digital compass, in case you get lost in the great outdoors and knowing which way is north will somehow help you get un-lost. Try to get un-lost in under 14 hours though.

Same specs but one is a gaming hand held and the other is a netbook/potential survival device.

 

[darkblu]

This is one thing I hope ARM remedies. Out of all the things that ARM chips lack to be netbook, notebook, or even desktop chips is the SATA connectors. USB is slow and becomes clogged easily. Even USB 3 will have the same problems, it will still be slower than current SATA speeds. USB shouldn't be used for mass storage. I'm sure after ARM powered netbooks become more popular ARM will have some sort of bus that is for mass storage built into it. Heck, firewire would be a better bus for mass storage than USB, but SATA standard would be the best.

This is really a ARM limitation, not a Touch Book or Pandora problem.

i'm afraid it's not up to arm to fix that - it's the chip manufactures that are at fault here.

TI, freescale, qualcomm - they all lack a proper mass storage bus in their SoCs from what i've seen. that'll be hurting this first wave of arm devices once they get into the wild.

i think part of the reason for the present situation with storage buses is that originally all those SoCs have been concieved as top-tier handheld (smartphone, etc) systems, and their migration to the netbooks/nettops space has brought some design shortcomings.