Pandora Tablet Mod

[Illuminerdi]

Just a quote from MWeston (The designer and creator of the Pandora's motherboard) who is part of the development team in response to another members questions about the Pandora being an open platform. Asking whether schematic or documentation will be available to the public, Which may interest you.

Thanks Trooper, but I believe based on context MWeston may only be referring to the PCB design itself - I'm not sure if they're going to apply the same logic to the plastic outer shell or not, so I'm going to continue pursuing this. Did MWeston even do the housing design, or did someone else take care of that? I know he did the PCB design (and from the pics I've seen he did a bangup job of it!), but I'm unclear as to whether or not he just designed the PCB with mounting holes and let one of the other team members handle the actual engineering render of the housing, or if his massive skills encompass designing the case as well.

I've already PM'd Craigix anyway, to find out about this, but I appreciate you posting that all the same

 

[Lorkile]

Trooper

That response was in a thread about wanting to modify the core system, and wanting more documentation on the core components so I doubt it applies. I think the case schematics could really help in planning to modify and I would hope MWeston would agree.

Personally I think the tablet idea is great, and as I've said before I would love to have such a feature. The feel of the DS (and now my DS Lite) when using the stylus, and the homebrew Colors! make me think that there are just many occasions were it would be more comfortable to hold but I would want it to retain the main functionality and feel of it for normal use.

 

[Illuminerdi]

Trooper

That response was in a thread about wanting to modify the core system, and wanting more documentation on the core components so I doubt it applies. I think the case schematics could really help in planning to modify and I would hope MWeston would agree.

Personally I think the tablet idea is great, and as I've said before I would love to have such a feature. The feel of the DS (and now my DS Lite) when using the stylus, and the homebrew Colors! make me think that there are just many occasions were it would be more comfortable to hold but I would want it to retain the main functionality and feel of it for normal use.

Agreed - but remember that we'll probably never see any official form of tablet implementation (maybe someday in the Pandora2...), which is why I'm pursuing this as a mod kit.

 

[trooper]

Just a quote from MWeston (The designer and creator of the Pandora's motherboard) who is part of the development team in response to another members questions about the Pandora being an open platform. Asking whether schematic or documentation will be available to the public, Which may interest you.

Thanks Trooper, but I believe based on context MWeston may only be referring to the PCB design itself - I'm not sure if they're going to apply the same logic to the plastic outer shell or not, so I'm going to continue pursuing this. Did MWeston even do the housing design, or did someone else take care of that? I know he did the PCB design (and from the pics I've seen he did a bangup job of it!), but I'm unclear as to whether or not he just designed the PCB with mounting holes and let one of the other team members handle the actual engineering render of the housing, or if his massive skills encompass designing the case as well.

I've already PM'd Craigix anyway, to find out about this, but I appreciate you posting that all the same


Don`t quote me on this, But there is a VERY good chance that DaveC could be the one designing the case for the Pandora, As he has (in the past) provided a few hardware accessories for this community (One being the GP2x joystick mod), As he seem`s to have access to the needed facilities to produce them. He was also the one that posted a render of the Pandora`s case design that is pretty much identical the final one that was used, Oh, And he`s also part of the development team too.

Pure speculation on my part though.

Trooper

 

[Lorkile]

Speculation is good, thanks for those thoughts Trooper.

Illuminerdi, I'm fine with a modkit (in theory) as I've only done a few hardware modifications in the past and none were very difficult (replaced parts mostly).

 

[FrozenIpaq]

I haven't had time to read all the replies but I can tell you one thing: If the Pandora is able to be converted into a tablet of sorts (with a rotating hinge) and the wires/board permits it then you can go ahead and do so. The tricky part is providing instructions and selling products that transform the pandora to do this. If you do it yourself then chances are you can get off scott-free (no one is going to attack a single guy for trademark/patent infringement). If however you sell your design(s) then you do run the risk of getting a C&D, sued, fined, or anything other legal action.

So
- DIY project: Go for it
- Selling a new case that allows for a tablet conversion - on the fence of getting in trouble

 

[Illuminerdi]

I haven't had time to read all the replies...

Yeah, it's the "selling a case" part that you missed, actually

 

[FrozenIpaq]

I haven't had time to read all the replies...

Yeah, it's the "selling a case" part that you missed, actually


You talked about it in your first post did you not? "o I'm hopeful that someone will sell/make replacement housing shells for the Pandora"

 

[Lorkile]

I suppose that just a replacement shell would be enough to permit this with little risk eventually, but it would still be cool to just gut one system and then shove it in the other box (or something else as easy to do).

 

[ArchiMark]

FWIW, I'd be very interested in a mod to make the Pandora work like a convertible TabletPC....

I've had several TabletPC's now and really, really like that type of design...

So, would be great to have a real small TabletPC!

Agree with others, given the relatively small numbers involved, if this was purely a DIY thing, then think we'd be pretty safe...however, if this becomes a true commercial venture, then it's a different story...although, again, given the small numbers of kits one might sell, probably not much of legal target....

So, put me down one kit....

Anyway, just my 2¢......

 

[lucidchaos]

First of all I'd like to thank Illuminerdi for the great question. Although I remember the topic coming up a couple times before, your question about the mod kit has not been answered afaik.

I'm no law student. I couldn't do it if I tried. The patent law system as it stands bothers me, as i feel it stifles innovation.

However, with the laws in mind, doesn't the patent only apply to an assembled product, and not a kit?

I present to you the scenario where I run an electronics store. Inside my store, I sell capacitors, resistors, diodes, potentiometers, processors... you get the point. I also sell a book with plans to make many patented electronic items. At no point in the process did I violate patent, as I never actually recreated the patented invention in question.

Now, back to the hinge scenario - what you would need to know up front, is what exactly is patented. From a legal perspective, the language of the patent is important. What about the hinge is actually patented? Is it the hinge itself? If that's the case, you could simply buy the hinge from a supplier that is paying royalties to the patent holder, and sell the mod-kit as it is.

Is it "an electronic device with a touchscreen that swivels?" If that is the case, you are not violating patent by selling the kit. The person that puts the electronics in the kit is violating patent.

Since you are catering to the DIY crowd anyways, chances are very good you can skirt around the whole patent issue, legally, by forcing the modder to violate the patent themselves when they use your kit.

I welcome a correction from the community if I am wrong. I just spent about 20 minutes looking up patent related info on wikipedia - so in no way am I an authoritative source.

-edited to add uncertainty

 

[adsharma23]

if my memory holds, i remember the pandora being delayed or a lot of work being done on keeping the ribbon cable from the pcb to the screen sturdy and craig said they finally got it right
if someone were to make a mod kit of some sort, it would need to be very well thought out.
i would think that the hardest part besides designing the case would be actually finding a place to get the case made (molds cost a ton from my understanding)
if the case got past this phase, would it affect the stability of the pandora overall?
i would think that twisting the ribbon would be probably be very bad in the long run for the pandora, especially given the previous concerns.
while a tablet maybe plausible, i would think it to be not an undertaking to be taken lightly (especially if someone plans to sell a mod kit of some sort)

 

[trooper]

I managed to find the render that DaveC posted.

Here

I must admit, I did say identical, Though it obviously isn`t. But is was the only clam-shell design posted, Oh and it also has a hint of what you want to achieve. :rolleyes:

Trooper

 

[Snu]

i distinctly recall one of the devs saying that the 3d files will be released (possibly included with the pandora), but not until the pandora is out to prevent cheap knock-offs. unfortunately, i cant find the post...
also, if you want a pandora-ish tablet, i would think it would be easier (and possibly cheaper) to use a beagleboard and buy a small screen and battery. i was actually thinking of doing this at some point... maybe once i have some money anyway.

 

[chris_merris]

Knee-Jerk: Try it first, then bitch. I don't think that the DS owners are all bitching at their layout.

QUOTE

Call me crazy, but I love the glossy ipod plastic jelly bean piano finish on gadgets. Yeah, I know it's trendy. To each their own, right?

So I'm hopeful that someone will sell/make replacement housing shells for the Pandora, for those of us who are looking for something other than matte black plastic. I recently swapped shells on my DS Lite and had a blast in the process, so I have the modder's itch, I suppose.

Modder's itch? If you had the modder's itch you would have some polishing compound or jewelers paper and you could "glossy" the damn thing yourself.


The same applies to the "foldback" screen. I don't know if anyone would get sued, I guess just try it and find out.

I don't think that you can get sued for some wiring and a hinge, if you sell them seperately. More importantly you are stuck with the touch-screen only if you do that, so you would need a d-pad and some action keys to get any mileage out of it set up that way.


I re-iterate, try the damn thing first and then complain. It is the size of a Nintendo DS, I don't see its form factor causing a problem.


I'm sick of people like you on this forum that feel it is their duty to tell someone off.

 

[Chip]

From a purely practical standpoint, this is not a mod to be undertaken lightly. There are two basic "convertable" designs. One is to have the display open 360 degrees and lock that way, as the OP suggests. The other is to have the display open 90 degrees, rotate, and then close like this:

Neither option is possible without significant structural modification to the Pandora.

The fold back design is actually the more problematic of the two. In order for the display to fold past 180 degrees, the hinge has to be at the back of the unit. Not on top of the back side (as it is now), but actually on the back. This creates a bit of a problem for the ports and trigger buttons that already reside there. In fact, in searching for an example of an existing computing device that converts in this manner, I could only find non-functional prototypes and concept designs. I'm not saying you couldn't somehow squeeze in a couple hinges between the ports on the back, I just don't know how you'd do it.

All convertible laptops and handhelds that I am aware of use the open-rotate-close method. This is probably the more feasible of the two options, but it is far from simple. You would have to create a sturdy hinge that can both flip and rotate (obviously patented, but lets ignore that for the sake of this discussion), be sturdy enough to support the display without it wobbling, and somehow have enough room inside for the display, speaker, and wifi/BT antenna cables.

This hinge would have to be custom machined out of metal. It's going to require some extremely precision work to make sure the hinge is stiff enough to prevent the display from wobbling but still be able to fold and rotate without butting undue stress on the device.

Speaking of undue stress on the device, you're going to have a difficult time mounting it to the base in a sturdy enough fashion. All the cantilever forces from the display will be concentrated in one spot - the middle of the base - which was not designed from the start to handle those forces. Anything simply glued/screwed onto the existing base would eventually cause stress cracks and failure of the plastic.

Last and probably least, is the display cable. The cable used in the current design is of the flexible plastic ribbon type (seen here). Ribbon cables like this do not take well to being twisted and folded, and it certainly wouldn't fit through the hinge anyway. You would have to cobble together a custom cable out of very fine wire that could fit through the hinge and deal with the rotating / bending.

A mod of this magnitude is not impossible, but it would require some serious engineering. Do not expect a commercial aftermarket kit to do something like this. The first market is barely large enough to support design and manufacturing costs, the aftermarket certainly isn't. This is a Benheck-caliber mod, and I wouldn't suggest even attempting it to anybody without significant experience in this area.

 

[Sphinxter]

That'll void your warranty.

 

[nubie]

From a purely practical standpoint, this is not a mod to be undertaken lightly. There are two basic "convertable" designs. One is to have the display open 360 degrees and lock that way, as the OP suggests. The other is to have the display open 90 degrees, rotate, and then close like this:

. . .



Thanks Chip, there is another option where the lid has a pair of hinges at the halfway point of the LCD and it performs a 180° flip to lay on top of the keys.

That is the kind I have in my IBM 486 laptop/tablet.

So there are 3 or so basic types of hinge that allow you to use as a tablet. And to accomplish any of them you need a different LCD connection (On the flip around back it might just take a slightly longer one, but the other two need a more flexibility than plastic allows).

Apologies for being so jerky

I'm sick of people like you on this forum that feel it is their duty to tell someone off.

I am too.

 

[ashdjones]

Knee-Jerk: Try it first, then bitch. I don't think that the DS owners are all bitching at their layout.

etc...

I'm sick of people like you on this forum that feel it is their duty to tell someone off.


+1

I'm glad i'm not the only one thinking this.

edit: I noticed Nubie apologised - thank you, that makes a big difference

 

[mali]

This hinge would have to be custom machined out of metal. It's going to require some extremely precision work to make sure the hinge is stiff enough to prevent the display from wobbling but still be able to fold and rotate without butting undue stress on the device.

Speaking of undue stress on the device, you're going to have a difficult time mounting it to the base in a sturdy enough fashion. All the cantilever forces from the display will be concentrated in one spot - the middle of the base - which was not designed from the start to handle those forces. Anything simply glued/screwed onto the existing base would eventually cause stress cracks and failure of the plastic.

Last and probably least, is the display cable. The cable used in the current design is of the flexible plastic ribbon type (seen here). Ribbon cables like this do not take well to being twisted and folded, and it certainly wouldn't fit through the hinge anyway. You would have to cobble together a custom cable out of very fine wire that could fit through the hinge and deal with the rotating / bending.

A mod of this magnitude is not impossible, but it would require some serious engineering. Do not expect a commercial aftermarket kit to do something like this. The first market is barely large enough to support design and manufacturing costs, the aftermarket certainly isn't. This is a Benheck-caliber mod, and I wouldn't suggest even attempting it to anybody without significant experience in this area.



Is THAT ribbon cable really the final one? How would that work? Sitting on the edge, where the two halfs of the device are attached to each other. I would suppose, that the inner tubule of the hinge is hollow and the non-ribbon cable is fiddled through.
I'm planning to design a custom convertible-hinge myself from brass or stainless steel, small parts can easily be connected with silver hard solder. To deal with a ribbon cable would make things harder, I would have to cut it and solder other wires on the contact bar, because those cables don't have male/female separate connectors to solder the wires. (A good wire would be like the one used for notebook mice, multi-vein enameled(don't know the real name in english))

Enough rigidity for the case would be accomplished by adding a stripe of sheet metal from the inner side. You can drill small holes in it, heat it and then press it into the plastic. Btw thermoplastics can be welded with an ordinary soldering iron, that is not too hot. This is done with plastic bumpers of cars that got cracked for example. I did it myself and it works great. You have just to be sure to use the same plastic (PE, PP, ABS or whatever is used).

Could someone of the developers please confirm, how the feed-through of the cable is made in the real Pandora?