Pandora Storage Space Hd

[midtown]

I have read on here that usb hard drives will be compatible for use with the pandora (stop me right here if im wrong) but have only really seen talk about SDHC cards and such, if you could use something like a WD Passport pocket drive with the pandora for watching movies or music, why do you need all this SD storage space.

just a thought because i was thinking more along the lines of something like that.
maybe it just sounds odd

 

[gruso]

Portability. It would be pretty dumb to sell a device that required you to dangle a HDD from the rear. 64GB (or more) of storage on tiny little cards just makes sense.

You can of course hang an external drive off the USB port if you wish. Flexibility, baby.

 

[Yigguth]

Yeah but the external will be constantly draining your battery

 

[Etinin]

Not that SD wouldn't waste energy either.
Even though a mechanical HD should consume more energy, shouldn't kill enough battery hours to make it unfeasible, but the most obvious issue is portability.

 

[gruso]

You can get self powered external HDDs too. Of course, all this has been discussed at length already:

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=42621

 

[midtown]

ah yea, i didnt think about the power usage. not that i think a hd dangling is too bad, then again we'll see how it works. a roommate has a EEE with a hd velcrod to it, but thats a little bit different.
i do already have a sdhc i bought planning to use it with this, just instead of buying another, the things i wont need constantly i think ide rather just put on the HD i am considering buying.

with that said and this topic already started, one thing that has been a small question inside me that i am not sure of, is everyone says, yea its usb 2.0 this and usb that, but what will it take to plug in a usb device, i thought i heard something about the port being mini usb or something? is that true or am i fabricating things with the major concussion i am suffering from right now

 

[gruso]

For all your USB questions, you only need to glance half way down the page:

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=44712

 

[midtown]

hmm ive read that before and maybe its just my inability to read things i dont yet fully understand, no matter. if it works, or works with some tinkering, ill figure out how to make it work, just wait and see for myself. thanks anyway.

 

[nubie]

hmm ive read that before and maybe its just my inability to read things i dont yet fully understand, no matter. if it works, or works with some tinkering, ill figure out how to make it work, just wait and see for myself. thanks anyway.

USB 2.0 full is working great (according to the devs). Plug in a HDD no problem. It provides full 500mAh USB spec power afaik.

Another thought, put a wifi storage device within range and use that for storage (might cause some power drain, but would be less bulky than having a HDD on the unit.)


You could also use a USB flash stick, prices are dropping and capacities rising all the time.

 

[hobbyman II]

or in pure undiluted English

USB 2 works just like you would expect it too

USB 1/1.1 have issues that require you to use a hub

I think TI made a mistake in the USB design that will have to wait until they release a firmware revision (ie re-design and make some newer chips with the USB problem sorted) AFAIK

so for USB 1/1.1 devices you have to use a USB2 hub that can support USB 1/1.1, the hub talks to the devices in USB 1/1.1 and then sends the data to the Pandora Via USB 2.0

hobbyman

ps when I use USB 1/1.1 it means USB version 1 OR USB version 1.1, they revised USB 1 up to 1.1 for extra speed/flexibility long before 2.0 came out, USB ports for all three standards are out there in different devices (USB 1/1.1 is normally in ultra low cost devices like PC Worlds overpriced PCline hubs or old stock like USB keyboards being cleared cheap)

 

[Squidge]

I have read on here that usb hard drives will be compatible for use with the pandora (stop me right here if im wrong) but have only really seen talk about SDHC cards and such, if you could use something like a WD Passport pocket drive with the pandora for watching movies or music, why do you need all this SD storage space.

The Pandora only supplies 500mA, I'm not quite sure what Michael has allowed for over that, but the WD Passport can easily hit 750mA when its first plugged in, so the Pandora may shut down the device due to current overload. It should work quite nicely using the external WD Passport power adaptor however.

 

[Prometheus]

I think TI made a mistake in the USB design that will have to wait until they release a firmware revision (ie re-design and make some newer chips with the USB problem sorted) AFAIK

I may be utterly mistaken, but my understanding was that that issue was nothing to do with the USB2.0/USB1.1 things you've described... :blink:

 

[hobbyman II]

@ Prometheus: that might be so, but afaik the lack of 1/1.1 support was down to a hardware issue with the USB interface, for USB 2.0 the port is just fine afaik, but I may be wrong, could a Pandora dev comment?.

as for external drives, 500mah is the USB standards maximum power output per port, so a passport is not intended to just run off one port, my ext drive has a double lead so it can draw power off a second port to run

I also have a coolermaster ext case with an old 30gig eide drive in it out of an old laptop, that runs off just one usb port just fine with no extra leads or connections needed, so you can obviously get drives that draw little enough power, I am guessing that any drives that can run off one port will be smaller capacity drives (based purely on the fact that high capacity drives run a lot hotter, and heat means energy wasted, hence a higher power consumption)

Hobbyman.

 

[Squidge]

@ Prometheus: that might be so, but afaik the lack of 1/1.1 support was down to a hardware issue with the USB interface, for USB 2.0 the port is just fine afaik, but I may be wrong, could a Pandora dev comment?.

To use USB1.1 and USB2.0 devices on the same port requires both a EHCI and OHCI controller connected to that port. The EHCI will negotiate full/low speed via a channel to the OHCI controller, whilst handling the high speed connections itself.
The Pandora has both of these, however only one controller can be added to each port.

as for external drives, 500mah is the USB standards maximum power output per port, so a passport is not intended to just run off one port
It comes with a standard USB one with one connector at each end, so that would suggest it IS intended to run off one port. It works fine on most PCs in that configuration, but it doesn't run on my PDA due to the obscene current requirements (the PDA turns off the port power as soon as the drive attempts to spin up).

I also have a coolermaster ext case with an old 30gig eide drive in it out of an old laptop, that runs off just one usb port just fine with no extra leads or connections needed, so you can obviously get drives that draw little enough power
Obviously, I never said no drives would work, I said that particular drive in question wouldn't. Also, don't assume that if they only have one cable that they'll work. Some drives have surge current on startup that can trigger the OCI (Over current indicator) in USB controllers. Modern PCs sometimes ignore these flags, as they can quite easily provide several amps down the USB ports, but battery powered devices are usually a lot more strict.

 

[midtown]

yea as for the wireless connection networking, it is a good plan (some of us have consoles). ill probably try it myself for use at home, but the point of this portable device is i plan to use it during class and i dont think the campus would enjoy me trying to open a network connection for music to listen to while im supposed to be taking notes



that also would rule out the external power supply as a possibility but i was looking at getting an enclosure for a 1.8" 20gb hd i have here, they require 1 usb and are 2.0
fairly small too it looks like, hope so.

 

[nubie]

as for external drives, 500mah is the USB standards maximum power output per port, so a passport is not intended to just run off one port
It comes with a standard USB one with one connector at each end, so that would suggest it IS intended to run off one port. It works fine on most PCs in that configuration, but it doesn't run on my PDA due to the obscene current requirements (the PDA turns off the port power as soon as the drive attempts to spin up).
Neat, does anyone remember the device with capacitors to spin up the HDD? It soaked power from the port until it had enough stored for the HDD spin-up, then ran the drive without an additional power cable.

I am trying to remember if it was Firewire or USB, or both. I am pretty sure it was 3.5" HDD though. It looked like a black box a bit bigger than the end of the drive.

I also have a coolermaster ext case with an old 30gig eide drive in it out of an old laptop, that runs off just one usb port just fine with no extra leads or connections needed, so you can obviously get drives that draw little enough power
Obviously, I never said no drives would work, I said that particular drive in question wouldn't. Also, don't assume that if they only have one cable that they'll work. Some drives have surge current on startup that can trigger the OCI (Over current indicator) in USB controllers. Modern PCs sometimes ignore these flags, as they can quite easily provide several amps down the USB ports, but battery powered devices are usually a lot more strict.

I blew out a port on the hub in my USB keyboard with an Atmel firmware USB device I was making, then I plugged it in directly to the PC and let the cable get real hot and a little gooey before I realized the problem. I guess the motherboard had a really good 5v line attached to that port , because I found the errant wire on my solderless breadboard and there was no damage done (except that keyboard, still need to check for an SMD fuse and see if it is reparable, no rush, there is another USB port on it.)

I guess my point is it is up to the mobo to decide how much power it supplies, with a desktop theoretically up to the PSU maximum unless something blows if it is connected direct to the PSU. But unless you have the wires shorted through a very low resistance I wouldn't expect any trouble.

500ma is fine, as long as your HDD spins up with it. I use a 4 NiMH battery pack (~4.8v, no regulator), in AA or AAA cells to run the USB devices on the GP2X adaptors I make. Something like this:

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.15048

You do have to be careful not to put alkalines into it though , or worse the lithium AA batteries (1.7v per cell )

Best would be a self-powered of course, or a li-ion 5v pack with plenty of juice to run the HDD.

At the possibility of dual 64GB SD cards it all gets a little silly for portable use. Even dual 8GB should hold you. And you could get a USB reader that holds a bunch of SD cards, or just hold the extra ones in a little pouch on the back of the screen.

Awesome, all the possibilities are making me dizzy. Truly a great system for people who like choices.

 

[nubie]

yea as for the wireless connection networking, it is a good plan (some of us have consoles). ill probably try it myself for use at home, but the point of this portable device is i plan to use it during class and i dont think the campus would enjoy me trying to open a network connection for music to listen to while im supposed to be taking notes

Why not? I take notes into my email all the time (I really did)

QUOTE

that also would rule out the external power supply as a possibility but i was looking at getting an enclosure for a 1.8" 20gb hd i have here, they require 1 usb and are 2.0
fairly small too it looks like, hope so.



Are you saying that you would like to put a 1.8" HDD in an enclosure and use it with the Pandora?

I don't think the spin-up of a single platter 1.8" HDD should be more than 500ma, Was Squidge discussing a 2.5" HDD?

Even if it only uses 1 USB port that doesn't mean you can't use external power, just make a cable with the +5v wire connected to the battery pack I linked to above (buy your own AA or AAA battery pack, or use a commercial Li-Ion pack that outputs +5v).

 

[Squidge]

I don't think the spin-up of a single platter 1.8" HDD should be more than 500ma, Was Squidge discussing a 2.5" HDD?
I was indeed talking about 2.5". As for a 1.8"... Here's a 100GB drive:

500mA @ 3.3V. I'm guessing around ~300mA @ 5V, but of course you need something to actually power that. I see appropriate converters on ebay for about £5. Proper enclosures will be more expensive of course, but the power efficiency should still be quite decent (I'm guessing we are only in trouble if it drops below 60%)

 

[mindlord]

I'm pretty shocked at how cheap some of these 1.8" external drives can be. Approximately $1.10 per Gig including the enclosure is not a bad trade off for low power consumption, and weight. I might actually consider getting one of those later on. 60 very pocketable gigs for under 80$ sounds pretty good.

Edit: Used google shopping instead of newegg for price reference for our international friends.

 

[nubie]

I don't think the spin-up of a single platter 1.8" HDD should be more than 500ma, Was Squidge discussing a 2.5" HDD?
I was indeed talking about 2.5". As for a 1.8"... Here's a 100GB drive:

[Hotlinking not working for me (I see a green pig :blink: )]

500mA @ 3.3V. I'm guessing around ~300mA @ 5V, but of course you need something to actually power that. I see appropriate converters on ebay for about £5. Proper enclosures will be more expensive of course, but the power efficiency should still be quite decent (I'm guessing we are only in trouble if it drops below 60%)


Cool, if the price is good compared to SD cards it might be good, or for virtual memory thrashing .

My dream involves a 2.5cm blu-ray drive on the bottom like the Libretto U100 , hey a guy can dream , and it would be more standard than the PSP optical drive, you could still play the movies in a standard player .