Pandora Netbook?

[ebullister]

I have read several posts comparing the pandora platform with a linux netbook or UMPC.

I came up with a conceptual design (and virtual prototype; see http://www.x-fold.com) of a device that I think may make for a workable pandora pocket netbook. It has a full sized keyboard that folds in half. The motheroard goes under one side of the keyboard and the battery goes under the other. The display is stored between the keyboard halves and cushioned by the keys. A survey conducted as part of a business plan contest suggested that a fair number of people were interested in a pocketable device with a full keyboard.

I would welcome any comments or suggestions on whether a pandora netbook is a good idea, whether it is practical to implement, or whether people would want to use such a device.

 

[Yigguth]

Okay, that's nice. But what does it have to do with the Pandora?

 

[mali]

I'd rather like a thin tablet plus foldable keyboard off the shelf. That would make it more versatile IMO
But nice concept none the less

 

[ebullister]

It was a musing as to whether minor modifications to the packaging would enable the same basic platform to work as a laptop as well as for video games. There may be synergies in using the same hardware platform for two purposes. This seemed consistent with other threads, like inquiries as to whether the pandora could be a "Car PC" and comparisons and contrasts with the Netbooks and UMPCs. The compact size and low power of the pandora seems to make it a good candidate for a device can work as a laptop or smartphone.

 

[Karel Jansens]

I have read several posts comparing the pandora platform with a linux netbook or UMPC.

I came up with a conceptual design (and virtual prototype; see http://www.x-fold.com) of a device that I think may make for a workable pandora pocket netbook. It has a full sized keyboard that folds in half. The motheroard goes under one side of the keyboard and the battery goes under the other. The display is stored between the keyboard halves and cushioned by the keys. A survey conducted as part of a business plan contest suggested that a fair number of people were interested in a pocketable device with a full keyboard.

I would welcome any comments or suggestions on whether a pandora netbook is a good idea, whether it is practical to implement, or whether people would want to use such a device.

Well, I am interested in a pocketable device with a full keyboard, that is why I bought a bluetooth keyboard. So why should I buy an extra-fat Panda if I can have the best of both worlds already?

BTW, I am pretty sure that your concept has been done already. I have at least seen a very similar prototype on Engadget, back in the day when these things were still called "origamis".

All in all, I am so over the netbook thing. I bought a Pepper Pad 3 when the Eee was just a funny scream and ended up finding no justifiable use for it. I do own a Netbook however, and in fact the only Netbook that truly deserves that name: A Psion Netbook. It existed years before Asus started to throw cheap parts together, it still works very nicely and is a joy to type on. Oh, and it gets 8 hrs out of a battery similar to the Eee´s standard, but that is because it has an ARM inside, obviously.

(The Psion will go to my niece. It is a very usable school computer and the limited Internet accessability (an ancient version of Opera) only means less time wasted on "the Social".)

 

[ebullister]

Karel-

Thanks for your comment.

"Well, I am interested in a pocketable device with a full keyboard, that is why I bought a bluetooth keyboard. So why should I buy an extra-fat Panda if I can have the best of both worlds already?"

Reasons could be:

1) you carry one device instead of two
2) no bluetooth or separate keyboard batteries to worry about
3) the keys do double duty to cushion the display, so the display should be very durable without needing bulky plastic armor to protect it.
4) Other versions have two displays that fold together with the two keyboard halves for twice the area (see www.x-fold.com)

But yours are good points as well. Most of this I think is a matter of personal preference.

 

[lulzfish]

Here's some thoughts:

1) The screen is off-center.
2) There doesn't appear to be a way to use it without having the screen off-center
3) I'm not sure I want keys "cushioning" an LCD screen.

 

[CCmachined]

Windows XP!?

if you want to design a x86 netbook, go ahead. that is not a Pandora in any way, shape or form. XP runs on x86, not ARM, and won't in any sort of emulation.

 

[Karel Jansens]

Karel-

Thanks for your comment.

"Well, I am interested in a pocketable device with a full keyboard, that is why I bought a bluetooth keyboard. So why should I buy an extra-fat Panda if I can have the best of both worlds already?"

Reasons could be:

1) you carry one device instead of two
2) no bluetooth or separate keyboard batteries to worry about
3) the keys do double duty to cushion the display, so the display should be very durable without needing bulky plastic armor to protect it.
4) Other versions have two displays that fold together with the two keyboard halves for twice the area (see www.x-fold.com)

But yours are good points as well. Most of this I think is a matter of personal preference.

Obviously it is personal preference and my remarks should be taken in that stance. It is rather transparent that there is indeed a market for netbooks, although I am not certain whether most people buy them for the biggish keyboards or for the bigger screen.

The reason I prefer a separate keyboard is the same reason I prefer a separate phone: I do not always need every possible function and synergetic devices can only go so far in keeping the package manageable. E.g. if I go for a long walk, I do not need an elaborate keyboard or mobile internet access; just a card full of music will do nicely. If I go have a drink, I´ll take my phone, but -- unless it is some kind of geek party -- not my Panda and certainly not the keyboard.

As a sidenote, I do not get the foldable displays either. Why would I want a blooming great crack down the middle of my screen? The moment someone markets a foldable screen that will open crack-less (har har har), I´ll be interested, but not now.

 

[ebullister]

Posters-

I appreciate the comments. Here are some clarifications and follow ups to the comments/questions.

Yes, this is intended for Linux, not XP. I did not do a separate animation for Linux. Also, as you might have guessed from the animation, my animator does most of his work for Hollywood and advertising companies.

The rationale for two displays comes from surveys that report significant (20-40%) increases in productivity with two displays vs. one display on a desktop computer. Portable compurters are at least as constrained by display real estate as desktops, so I would expect at least as much added productivity on a pocketable. Yes, a bendable OLED or seamless LCD would be preferable, but I not ready to wait that long. So for a given display area constrained by the footprint of a pocketable device, I am taking the approach that two is (sometimes) better than one.

Also, as was pointed out, one display is not symmetric. Rather than have a slider as on a cell phone keyboard to center a single display, two displays looks more aesthetically pleasing and symmetric that one off center display.

I am pretty sure this has not been done, the closest I found was Samsung made a 3 component foldable device, but the display stored on the OUTside rather than the INside of the folded keyboard. This I consider a big deal. You don't really want to have the keys touch the display, except when you drop it, when the 2 mm key travel for tactile feedback comes in very handy to isolate the display from shock and bending. So the plastic armor on all laptop displays goes away and you need only the bare, thin glass display. This I think offsets most of the thickness and weight of the second keyboard half, so the net result is a bonus full sized keyboard without much extra size and weight.

Clearly different people have different needs, and I think most of the posters here have the wherewithal to assemble components to get exactly what they want when they want it. This is intended for the casual user who carries a single cellphone type device and occasionally wants to sit down and respond to an email or type up some notes.

There was a survey done for a business plan as part of a business plan class that said about 20-25% of people would buy one (which is plenty for me). The #2 priority cited in the survey was a usable keyboard (right after network connectivity). Most of the respondents were students so I assume they would use it to take notes.

I see and appreciate the points made about its limitations. But so far I haven't seen any objections that it is extremely difficult to make such a pandora netbook or there is something I overlooked that would be a show-stopper. Let me know if you have any further comments.

 

[cobaltage]

You might want to check out the not yet released Freescale netbook using a 1GHz ARM Cortex A8 CPU for $199 with 8 hours battery life (per the company). I have no idea how large the screen will be or the resolution. I'm interested in whether the difference in clock speed refers to a different version of the CPU in the Pandora or whether it's the same CPU using a faster clock speed.

I don't see any harm in people being interested in alternate form factors for the Pandora, seeing as the hardware components will be separately available in the future. In a sense, the idea of a Cortex A8 based netbook is a good enough idea for this company to produce them for $199.

One problem you would face given your design, other than the probable cost, is the resolution of the screen for the Pandora is 800x480. While you can get a 7" LCD screen at that resolution, 800x480 is a little limiting for a netbook when you can get a traditional notebook form factor netbook with similar guts at such a low cost.

Regarding the off center screen, it would be cool if the screen could slide to the middle, kind of locking the keyboard in place. I haven't seen a design like that yet. However, another thought is that at that point, especially since you would need to unfold the keyboard to use it, you might as well not have such a small screen and make it look like the new Sony Vaio P. Instead of being compact and thick, it would be longer and thinner.

I agree that to achieve similar functioning, it would be easier to get one of the existing folding Bluetooth keyboards. They are extremely compact and energy efficient, they pair up with a known device almost instantly, and if one wanted to use a full size keyboard, it is actually better to be able to separate the keyboard from such a small LCD screen for ergonomic reasons. In your design, the unit loses its ability to be used when it's not on a table top, but doesn't offer a clear advantage over carrying a folding BT keyboard, other than being cool.

I think if you compare the cost of the Pandora with the proposed cost of the Freescale ARM netbook (we shall see if that stays $199), the added value of the Pandora lies in the R&D behind the gaming controls, the physical design being optimized for gaming, and the establishment of a "standard" platform for open source handheld game development. A redesign by an individual or small group would have to have something similar going on with its intended purpose to be viable, other than being extremely compact. The only example I can think of offhand: robotics. I'm not sure why you would need something like the Cortex CPU for robotics, but maybe someone does.

Just some thoughts.

 

[mali]

It's 1024x600 IIRC. They mention it in this vid somewhere
CODE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrLa1qTVf34

 

[ebullister]

Thanks for the thoughtful comments.

I looked at the freescale netbook shown on the video. It looks small and light, and is supposed to be cheap, otherwise it is similar to existing netbooks.

I would not want to compete directly with netbooks. I would focus on the distinction of pocketability.
Standard netbooks are smaller than the laptop, but it only means that it takes up 1/2 your backpack or briefcase instead of 2/3.

In contrast, this device is a different animal- it fits in your pocket. I think that distiction is what makes all the difference. This represents a niche- the people who will spend a premium for a pocketable netbook, admittedly with a smaller display. Clearly not everybody cares about pocketability, but I don't have to please everybody- the netbook market is big enough that even a niche is worthwhile.

I need to look further into standalone BT keyboards and think more about them. One advantage that I can think of is that the combined device is a little simpler mechanically. Any separate BT keyboard solution requires opening two devices (maybe not too big a deal) but also requires an additional base to support the display at a viewing angle. Combining all the weight of the electronics in the folding keyboard makes for a stable base.

Another inherent advantage could be the dual display version. Two displays seems to be natural for this device but complicated otherwise. The combination of foldable display and keyboard would appeal, I think, to somebody who really wanted to get a near-desktop experience in a pocketable device.

Thanks for all the comments.

 

[Karel Jansens]

I need to look further into standalone BT keyboards and think more about them. One advantage that I can think of is that the combined device is a little simpler mechanically. Any separate BT keyboard solution requires opening two devices (maybe not too big a deal) but also requires an additional base to support the display at a viewing angle. Combining all the weight of the electronics in the folding keyboard makes for a stable base.

This might add to your pondering about keyboards.

I happen to write -- not so much right now, because of circumstances, but at other times I have been known to be a wordmachine B) -- and when I sit down to write (arguably not very often behind my desk, because of how the muze tends to strike me), I usually write for more than a couple of minutes at a time. This means that opening a BT keyboard, additional to opening a Panda or setting up a Nokia tablet, is really not much of a hassle.

It seems to me you are looking for people who like a full-size(ish) keyboard, but type for short enough a period that opening another gizmo annoys them, and/or people who only have one -- big -- pocket. I do not do market research, so my guess is just that, but it might be that your niche is a mighty small one.

Edit: I knew I had seen your design somewhere before.

CODE
http://www.i4u.com/article7542.html


Unless you think the rounded edges will make enough of a difference to deter the patent lawyers (as if!), that is.

 

[ebullister]

More Thoughts-

In terms of ergonomics, I think the only better place for a small display would be elevated above the keyboard. In front of the keyboard would obscure your view of the keys; behind the keyboard the display would be spaced further away from your eyes the width of the base. With all the weight in the keyboard halves and a stripped down lightweight display, an elevated display might be practical. Otherwise I can't think of a better place than immediately behind the keys.

I also think that integrating the keyboard into the netbook would reduce the total volume. The keyboard could do double duty replacing the plastic armor that protects the display.

Such integration would come at a significant cost, a lot of investment above simply using a separate BT keyboard. The other points are well taken.

Thanks for the comments - they help eliminate wishful thinking and focus on finding any real advantages in this approach.

 

[ebullister]

Yes, I am familiar with that folding design. It is another in which the display is outside, rather that betweeen the folding keyboards, so that the key travel space is wasted. Also that design is, in my opinion, very awkward and unwieldy because all the electronics is in the tilted display component, making it very top-heavy.

The point about not a big deal to open two devices I would agree with.

If you are writing (or emailing or surfing or facebooking) for an extended time, it can be nice to have dual screens to cut and paste, for example, from a previous email, so I would consider the extra display real estate of a second display to be an advantage.

I think the other point made in my last post, posted before I read yours, is valid. I think you save in overall volume and weight in consolidating the two devices.

I need to look further into standalone BT keyboards and think more about them. One advantage that I can think of is that the combined device is a little simpler mechanically. Any separate BT keyboard solution requires opening two devices (maybe not too big a deal) but also requires an additional base to support the display at a viewing angle. Combining all the weight of the electronics in the folding keyboard makes for a stable base.

This might add to your pondering about keyboards.

I happen to write -- not so much right now, because of circumstances, but at other times I have been known to be a wordmachine B) -- and when I sit down to write (arguably not very often behind my desk, because of how the muze tends to strike me), I usually write for more than a couple of minutes at a time. This means that opening a BT keyboard, additional to opening a Panda or setting up a Nokia tablet, is really not much of a hassle.

It seems to me you are looking for people who like a full-size(ish) keyboard, but type for short enough a period that opening another gizmo annoys them, and/or people who only have one -- big -- pocket. I do not do market research, so my guess is just that, but it might be that your niche is a mighty small one.

Edit: I knew I had seen your design somewhere before.

CODE
http://www.i4u.com/article7542.html


Unless you think the rounded edges will make enough of a difference to deter the patent lawyers (as if!), that is.

 

[ebullister]

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