Pandora As 3g Skype Phone

[nscreated]

OK, so here's the scenario:

Say I plug in a USB 3G data card into the Pandora and get a Skype subscription with a phone number for SkypeIn. Skype is running while the Pandora goes into standby and I have a Bluetooth headset.

Would that work? Would I be able to receive calls?

 

[sindbad]

The pandora would have to be running in order for that to work. Sleep to ram or to sd will stop everything.

All that if we can get Skype for the pandora. There's some hope that the Maemo Skype may work, though.

 

[Tom`]

OK, so here's the scenario:

Say I plug in a USB 3G data card into the Pandora and get a Skype subscription with a phone number for SkypeIn. Skype is running while the Pandora goes into standby and I have a Bluetooth headset.

Would that work? Would I be able to receive calls?

Apart from the fact that a port of Skype is unlikely, it is probably possible to have the Pandora wake on an event from a USB device or Bluetooth (if that is what you are suggesting). I would appreciate it if a developer could clarify this, of course.

 

[sindbad]

OK, so here's the scenario:
Say I plug in a USB 3G data card into the Pandora and get a Skype subscription with a phone number for SkypeIn. Skype is running while the Pandora goes into standby and I have a Bluetooth headset.

Would that work? Would I be able to receive calls?
Apart from the fact that a port of Skype is unlikely, it is probably possible to have the Pandora wake on an event from a USB device or Bluetooth (if that is what you are suggesting). I would appreciate it if a developer could clarify this, of course.I think he meant having the pandora wake up when he receives a Skype call.

 

[typs lik dis]

It's not as if even most cell phones can do that. The Pandora's battery life should be sufficient to keep it idling all day in your pocket. Keep in mind that many 3G plans still explicitly prohibit VOIP in their TOS; I doubt any voice carrier would willingly carry skype traffic over expensive 3G when they could be selling calling plans over the ordinary cell network.

 

[valhalla]

OK, so here's the scenario:

Say I plug in a USB 3G data card into the Pandora and get a Skype subscription with a phone number for SkypeIn. Skype is running while the Pandora goes into standby and I have a Bluetooth headset.

Would that work? Would I be able to receive calls?

As soon as pandora goes into standby skype is no longer running, and you're probably going to loose your connection to it, so you won't receive calls even if pandora is able to wake up from USB.

You may try to reduce power usage by turning off the display, wifi and whatever else, but not go into full standby.

Also, it's not very likely that skype will be ported in a short time, but that is easily solved with another VoIP provider (I have an italian based one that is cheaper than skype, gives me a (lot of) POTS number(s) for free and works with just every piece standard respecting software or hardware).

 

[Tor]

Just keep the Pandora running. I leave my Nokia tablet on at all times. It's got a much smaller battery than the Pandora, and (at least until the battery passed two years of use) the Nokia would go for 9-10 days like that. With wi-fi on, and Skype running, it can do up to at least a couple of days (and more when the battery was younger), if the wi-fi signal is good and the wi-fi router has proper power saving support.

I expect the Pandora to be vastly better than the Nokia tablet on this (and the Nokia tablet is more than two orders of magnitude better on networking time than my Palm w/wi-fi card ever was).

 

[nscreated]

Awesome information here. I was considering installing a different distro on the Pandora, so that's not as much of an issue.

I'm trying to look up more information on 3G data plans's Terms of Service agreements re:VoIP.

I came across one article which is a little discouraging: http://skypejournal.com/blog/2008/04/skype...le_dilemma.html

 

[Tor]

To sum up the article: 'voip over 3G is not very feasible'. I have not really tried it (well, I did once, for a few seconds), but it sounds true to me to some extent. My own experience with 3G data traffic is that the service is very unreliable w.r.t. performance, mostly due to sudden packet losses which leads to stalling. That would certainly completely destroy voip.

I have done lots of ping tests, tcpdump tests, round-trip measurements etc. and 3G drops data a lot. That is bad news for TCP/IP in particular (due to stalling).
Occasionally you have have longer periods (in the middle of the night, say) of streamlined transfers, but that is rare in my area at least. In fact the packet losses/stalling problem is so big that it destructively affects two-way communication interactions like Ajax, it has sometimes taken me an hour to get an email sent via gmail in a browser - gmail definitely does not like delays. It is sometimes even tricky to log in, so I log in while on wi-fi, then when I next connect to 3G I at least have the gmail screen already and I am able to read my mail. But sending mails is an unreliable business over 3G. Sometimes OK, other times impossible.

 

[monkeyo2]

Once we get Windows 7 for ARM, anything will be possible :lol:

CODE
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/402/1051402/olpc-urges-microsoft-windows-arm

 

[urjaman]

I have done lots of ping tests, tcpdump tests, round-trip measurements etc. and 3G drops data a lot. That is bad news for TCP/IP in particular (due to stalling).
Occasionally you have have longer periods (in the middle of the night, say) of streamlined transfers, but that is rare in my area at least. In fact the packet losses/stalling problem is so big that it destructively affects two-way communication interactions like Ajax, it has sometimes taken me an hour to get an email sent via gmail in a browser - gmail definitely does not like delays. It is sometimes even tricky to log in, so I log in while on wi-fi, then when I next connect to 3G I at least have the gmail screen already and I am able to read my mail. But sending mails is an unreliable business over 3G. Sometimes OK, other times impossible.

I'm sending this on a laptop with an integrated globtetrotter card and in HSDPA areas [Yeah i'm spending time at the public library with the laptop just because its HSDPA here] the usability is very near wired ADSL. On 3G only it's still feasible to watch youtube(with only occasional rebuffering), do gmail, etc without (near without - very rare) problems. On EDGE (2G/GSM) areas it's still usable for web surfing (most of the time) though for example loading gmail takes a while (and maybe needs F5 once sometimes...). So, on 2G the performance varies a lot (and pings are 700ms+) and sometimes there's those stalls (that break my AACplus stream). But at night it can transfer steady at over 20+ kt/s near all night - and can sometimes watch youtube videos that only have a static image (only sound) without buffering - others by giving it a few minutes to buffer before starting to watch.

I've also tested the Symbian fring VOIP application (that claims to work on GPRS) on my N6630 (I'm using it primary for text IM novadays - none of my friends like to talk/have headsets/have unlimited 3G data :/). So VOIP worked for me very well on 3G and near worked on 2G - it can stall and the quality is a bit low and the ping is noticable, but its usable (for my standards).

 

[Tor]

Let me add that I have not yet tested 3G with HSDPA, as it does not yet cover the area of my home. My testing was done with UTMC (and Edge - often UTMC was no better than Edge.)

 

[WizardStan]

Once we get Windows 7 for ARM, anything will be possible :lol:
CODE
http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/402/1051402/olpc-urges-microsoft-windows-arm
ARGH! Why? OLPC, you fail me in so many ways.
That is all.

 

[EdCa22]

I still don't understand why you can't make normal phone calls using 3G adapters - the hardware is there after all. It appears to be vendor lock-out more than anything. Which I guess is why I'd rather have a 3G phone running as a bluetooth modem - or hack a 3G module into the pandora - than use a 3G USB gadget.

 

[Falk]

VoIPo3G is possible... and very much so - even if the client is called Skype, which at least on Windows Mobile is sluggish and offers only so-so quality with dropouts every now and then.

If you use a decent SIP VoIP client though it's a different story and when I call home from Japan it makes no difference whether I use my desktop PC and a landline or my EM-ONE and HSDPA. I get around 2.4 mbps downstream and 320 kbps up which with a ping around 100 ms is more than usable. Even if you use G.711 it requires a mere 85 kbps up and downstream. The results should be much better when using a codec that was specifically designed for IP communications (like iLBC, SPEEX or SILK).

Use a HSUPA device / dongle and you get up to 7.2 / 1.4 mbps with an even lower ping which should be more than sufficient for even video communication on devices that are fast enough to process it (which excludes most if not all current WM phones). The Pandora will be a fine machine for VoIP as long as you prevent it from going to sleep; with the display off and the 3G dongle in IDLE state it shouldn't use too much power. With the battery and platform given I hope it will last me through the day ... 12 hours should be enough

There's no need about the your mobile broadband provider's TOS as even if many forbid using VoIP they don't pursue it in reality. I know only a handful of western providers that actively block SIP VoIP. Skype and Fring usually work as they use proprietary protocols that in Skype's case are much too complex to filter out and in Fring's are just not worth it as they are not generating that much telephony traffic anyway.

So let's wrap it up: If in addition to a good 3G network you use a softphone that uses UDP media transport I really don't see any problems apart from the fact that the average VoIP call is not nearly as energy efficient as classical telephony. Again, given the Pandora's battery and platform design it should last for a long time as I am sure that some of the games it's intended to run for 8 - 10 hours draw more energy than Skype and your USB dongle ever could!

I still don''t understand why you can''t make normal phone calls using 3G adapters - the hardware is there after all. It appears to be vendor lock-out more than anything. Which I guess is why I''d rather have a 3G phone running as a bluetooth modem - or hack a 3G module into the pandora - than use a 3G USB gadget.

There have been implementations like that in the past for several PDAs, but they never gained any popularity and remained niche products. You had to connect a headset to the card in order to use them and the telephony software that came with the package was usually more than flimsy.

I think that the 3G dongle providers are only doing the sensible with sticking to core functionality. Even if there was a product with support for 3G data as well as circuit switched telephony it would probably not fit onto a small USB stick, be more expensive and certainly not offer software support for the Pandora. So there is no vendor lockout at all but only technical and economical reasons.

Using your phone over BT is of course an option, but chances are that the Pandora outlasts your phone significantly and you always have to juggle around with connectivity. Make sure that your decive supports BT 2.x as otherwise you loose a lot of bandwidth needlessly.

 

[EdCa22]

I still don''''t understand why you can''''t make normal phone calls using 3G adapters - the hardware is there after all. It appears to be vendor lock-out more than anything. Which I guess is why I''''d rather have a 3G phone running as a bluetooth modem - or hack a 3G module into the pandora - than use a 3G USB gadget.

There have been implementations like that in the past for several PDAs, but they never gained any popularity and remained niche products. You had to connect a headset to the card in order to use them and the telephony software that came with the package was usually more than flimsy.

I think that the 3G dongle providers are only doing the sensible with sticking to core functionality. Even if there was a product with support for 3G data as well as circuit switched telephony it would probably not fit onto a small USP stick, be more expensive and certainly not offer software support for the Pandora. So there is no vendor lockout at all but only technical and economical reasons.

Using your phone over BT is of course an option, but chances are that the Pandora outlasts your phone significantly and you always have to juggle around with connectivity. Make sure that your supports BT 2.x as otherwise you loose a lot of bandwidth needlessly.


Most, if not all, of the chipsets used in 3G dongles do have standard phone functionality even if it isn't exposed, as you say, because they would need a headphone/microphone socket on the dongle and have to write extra software. However, it wouldn't be hard to add a USB audio DAC/ADC and have this connect to those headphone/microphone lines on the 3G chipset, and thus the user can use their computers normal audio input/output. These chips are tiny (trust me, I have some) and definitely would not increase the size of the dongle significantly. TBH, either solution would suit me (sockets or the USB audio chip). A part of me suspects they are just being lazy, or that this is their way of selling more contracts. Or maybe they have a deal for VoIP with the skype guys or others? Or maybe they are trying to phase out standard telephony? I don't know, but either way, they made the decision - not the users!

I also suspect that my phone battery will outlast my pandora (but would be very happy to be proven wrong).

 

[cloudy-cola-corp]

It might be slightly trivial, but I find where I live there is no signal on mobile broadband. I had a 3G stick, but I canceled it because it was slower than dial-up. other than this, I think that using a pandora as a phone is a great idea

 

[nscreated]

Meh, my interest sort of tapered off after some research.

It makes more sense to have a 3g capable cell phone and use it as a modem.

Originally I thought I could save some money by purchasing a data-only plan from a major carrier and just skyping over it--the Pandora could be my only device and, maybe, with the right setup and some BT headphones, I could receive calls without even taking it out of my pocket.

But cheap phone service + unlimited data costs just a little than mobile broadband (I'm going with Sprint) and with phone-as-modem it's not an issue.

I just hope there's a way to charge the phone while it's connected via USB.

 

[aliking]

Meh, my interest sort of tapered off after some research.

It makes more sense to have a 3g capable cell phone and use it as a modem.

Originally I thought I could save some money by purchasing a data-only plan from a major carrier and just skyping over it--the Pandora could be my only device and, maybe, with the right setup and some BT headphones, I could receive calls without even taking it out of my pocket.

But cheap phone service + unlimited data costs just a little than mobile broadband (I'm going with Sprint) and with phone-as-modem it's not an issue.

I just hope there's a way to charge the phone while it's connected via USB.

hey Nscreated, what plans are you looking at with Sprint? My understanding was that phone as modem would run another $15 on top of your cheap phone + data?

 

[Mr devil45]

3 mobile not only allow voip- theyre exremely cheap and fast.consider them...i already bought mine 2 use with panda [ ist 5mbps btw]