Overview of SoC options


There was once a discussion about internal micro sd card exactly for that purpose so users could have more internal memory if needed.
 
eMMC is faster than anything SD cards can provide, and cheaper too. Personally, if it came between an internal eMMC of a reasonable size (16GB will be more than enough for the average person (do not quote Bill Gates unless you understand the quote and how it applies (or doesn't))) and an internal SD card that can be upgraded, I'd opt for the faster vs the upgradeable. If I absolutely need more space then I'll just mark one of my SD cards as permanent storage and mount it to /usr/share or something.
 
I'd opt for the replaceable. But honestly, I don't mind if we have internal eMMC. I would just want some solution that allowed me to not use the NAND for stuff from the repo. I don't like using more writes than I need to on something I can't replace.

-God Ginrai
 
Even 1GB of internal storage would already be better than what we have now. But then again, I never use the NAND on my Pandoras, I boot from SD cards because I like to have room.



Filesystem                Size      Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/mmcblk0p3           27.7G     17.5G      8.8G  66% /media/ROOT
/dev/mmcblk0p1           87.8M     22.3M     65.5M  25% /media/BOOT
/dev/mmcblk1p1           58.7G     36.7G     19.0G  66% /media/DATA


I don't think it makes sense to make the internal storage too big and expensive. I also don't think it makes sense to try to save a few bucks by getting less internal storage. Usually there's a sweet spot in terms of gigabytes / euro. I think it makes sense to hit that spot.

16 or 32 GB is probably the best choice.
 
rohezal said:
The pnd is a great way to move programs and configs around. Very easy, copy your sd card and give it your friend with a slow internet connection. No complicated stuff, you can even download the pnd and it just works.
Click to expand...
It also doesn't integrate with the rest of the system (like, at all) and needs to include any non-standard libs/programs (takes a lot of disc space) it needs.

They are maybe fine for the casual user who doesn't have a clue about Linux, but I want to be able to launch any applications from the command line /comfortably/ (tab completion, no pnd_run stuff in front), I want something like Debian's alternatives system (to have multiple versions of the same thing), I want to double click on a file in any file manager of my choosing and get the file opened in the program of my choosing, etc.

EvilDragon said:
What stuff do you plan to install into your internal memory? Even my desktop Linux machine doesn't need more than 15GB for the stuff I need... games should stay on SD Card, so how many tools and standard applications do you need? :eek: Memory and storage are some of the most expensive parts... using 64GB would probabbly increase the end price by CHF75.54 (CHF75.54 (60 EUR)) compared to 16GB...
Click to expand...
In that case, right now, I would go for 32GB. Of course 4GB would work, I could install a nice base system in 4GB and then have the rest on an SD card mounted permanently. But this would block one of the SD slots. With 16GB of space the OS would just fit on it, with 32GB there would still be some room, future proof, wouldn't need to pay too much attention to how much space something needs (so would be nice enough). If there is a third SD slot (maybe internal micro SD) then I would be fine with even only 4GB of eMMC. But if there is no third SD slot then I would really like 32GB of eMMC.

If the PND system is improved, so it actually has all the functionality expected of a normal package system (those I named above and all the ones I forgot, but maybe they could depend on .deb packages instead of other .PND files) then I would be perfectly fine with 16GB, in that case 16GB would be very comfortable.
 
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EvilDragon said:
using 64GB would probabbly increase the end price by 60 EUR compared to 16GB...
Click to expand...
Would it be possible / desirable to give people the option of paying more for a bigger Nand?  This would make sense to me if the fabrication process allowed this to be done with relative ease. i.e. the various Nand sizes were of identical dimension & pin layout.
 
32GB is a big step up from 1GB, let alone the 256MB we have currently. Replaceable internal flash would be nice to allay the fears of people who avoid writing to their current non-replacable flash, but BGA soldered eMMC modules do seem a mite faster than SD cards.


Anyone know why that's the case? Both eMMC modules and SD cards are based on NAND flash, and SDHC/XC out to be able to go fast enough to pump out the data fast enough. Is the limitation the flash controllers built into SD cards? Or the electrical characteristics of directly soldered RAM versus externally wired, socketed SD cards?
 
Levi said:
32GB is a big step up from 1GB, let alone the 256MB we have currently.
Click to expand...
We have ~512MBs of NAND space even on the CC units.. system memory is where the CC have less ( 256MBs ) vs 512MBs
 
Levi said:
Anyone know why that's the case?
Click to expand...
If I had to guess, it's because SD cards have a 4 bit (or even 1 bit) bus whereas eMMC has the full 8 bit bus, so right off the bat for the same clock speed you get at least double the transfer rate in sequential read/write.I can also imagine other things in the different standards allowing random access read/writes on eMMC to be faster than on SD card but I don't have any specific examples at the moment.
 
There are some pretty speedy microSD by sandisk, expensive too (not very large - 16gb max - but it's enough for now, there'll be more capacity in the future). But if someone wishes to extend internal memory a card + some soft links would do the job. It's also future proof since who knows what'll happen in 5 years.

I don't think it's a good idea to make several types of boards with various internal memory sizes. We're talking about small scale production here, it's not some tablet which would outsell pyra by a factor of 10 at least.

And there will be eMMC anyway, it's not a replacement for internal microSD and internal card is not meant to be a replacement for eMMC.

eMMC may be cheaper than internal card but every capacity increase costs some and I don't think it's wise to force that price increase on everyone because some people would like to have a little more but the ability to extend internal memory is very nice.
 
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8gb should be enough for the system, just make it speedy.

We got huge SD cards for the rest.
 
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CrazyIvan said:
I don't think it's a good idea to make several types of boards with various internal memory sizes. We're talking about small scale production here, it's not some tablet which would outsell pyra by a factor of 10 at least.
Click to expand...
If the boards themselves had to be different then I'd agree but I can't really see any negatives if different NAND sizes could be used with identical boards and the additional charges for the option of a bigger NAND covered any additional costs. A bit of communication with the community would probably give an idea of what people wanted to see as a standard NAND size but my suspicion is that there would be a sizeable minority who would want something non standard if this was an option.
 
It's the only emmc price I've found by a quick search.

16GB (28,26€)

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/flash-memory-chips/7610367P/

32GB (52,37€)

http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/flash-memory-chips/7610360P/

I'm totally aware of the fact that this in nothing we ca use in the Pyra. It's the first thing found on Google.

I would pay the additional 24€ to get 32 GB of storage.

It's not that much.

If bought more than 100 and for production use it might be (a lot) cheaper.

Also the price for 1Gb per € is slightly better on the 32 Gb solution here.
 
Don't forget that it costs a lot to stop production and change reel. So you'd want to make either an entire batch with every capaity, or at least an entire reel's worth of eMMC. The former is probably smaller. That you need an entire reel of multiple eMMC chips also means higher initial capital need to get production started.
 
EvilDragon said:
What stuff do you plan to install into your internal memory? Even my desktop Linux machine doesn't need more than 15GB for the stuff I need... games should stay on SD Card, so how many tools and standard applications do you need? :eek: Memory and storage are some of the most expensive parts... using 64GB would probabbly increase the end price by 60 EUR compared to 16GB...
Click to expand...
Is there any chance to mounting the eMMC on a daughter board Odroid style?

http://com.odroid.com/sigong/blog/blog_list.php?bid=139

Then you could have a 'stock' size (16GB?) at the default price and sell upgrades to higher capacities at a profit.

Just a thought.
 
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