Open Snes/nes/gb

[finty]

So once for all :

! I DID NOT STOP WORKING ON GP32 !

I write stuff for Z but I'm in the process of debugging/giving the final touch to the
asm cpu core for os9xgp.

So please stop all this post/emails about me leaving the gp32 scene

You are a god! i can only hope to be as good a coder as you, you are the reason why many people but the gp32, including me!

Man i sound like a groupie!

 

[Enslaved]

If this is ported to GP32 then it could be a firmware with the WMA/MP3 player and some image viewer and a neat interface and it would be the ultimate firmware! I also think that the GP32 can be like a PDA if someone really tries, for example, no one has even coded/ported a calculator. If someone finds out how to put in the batteries for the clock we could have all kinds of PDAish apps like a digital clock with reminders of events when you turn on your GP32 and stuff.

 

[DaveC]

I have to agree with Prophet, after you use a Zodiac and see the screen, etc. there is no going back. I used to own both, but I had the joystick problem with the Zodiac and sent it back. Now that that problem is fixed, I may get another one soon. I sold my GP32 because the screen drove me nutz. It's nice, but the Zodiac crushes it, and I don't like the frontlight, it washes out the colors. And the fact that hardly any of the emulators feel finished, which was why I want a portable to begin with.
But, let's not forget about the Nintendo DS or the Sony PSP. There may be homebrew games and emus for those. The DS can play GBA games supposedly, so if they release a flashlinker you can use all the Emus from the GBA scene, which would be sweet. They might even run faster too. So maybe I'll wait awhile and see what happens. The GP32 BLU looks sweet though...

The GP32 screen does look much much better if you relace the crappy streaky blue scratchy plastic one and put in a glass one. I think much of the Zodiac craze is because of the backlit screen. I have A Zodiac too but the emus at this stage are ok but not earth shattering, at least for us non devs (many emus on Zodiac require dev DAA to run until released to public). I tend to use my GP32 much more at this point.

But yes frontlit isn't so good, not on the GP32, not on anything. Backlighting is so much nicer. I will be one of the first chumps to get a GP32 BLU if/when it is released.

One more thing, I really wish everyone would stop talking about the PSP as an emu/homebrew system. It uses proprietary mini discs not to mention encryption people, you may not be able to do ANYTHING but buy commercial games for it.

 

[DaveC]

The battery is a HUGE issue, and the reason why I havent and probably wont, get a zodiac. I dont care if the battery lasts for 12 months without being recharged, thats not the issue at all. The issue is simply:

If GamePark goes out of bussiness tomarrow. I can still play my GP32 _FOREVER_. AA Batteries can be purchased anywhere.

If Zodiac goes out of bussiness in a couple years (you cant say it wont, many handheld companies have come and gone), and your battery dies (as ALL rechargables eventually do, some faster than others), your zodiac is dead and useless. A $400 paperwieght. (sure you could plug it in if it lets you (I dont know if it does) but thats not very portable). Zodiac is losing and will continue to lose, customers because of their proprietary battery.

That is EXACTLY how I feel about this. I have one and always wonder what I will do with it when the battery goes balls up. Even if Tapwave is still in business I really dont want some monkey over there scratching my unit up replacing the battery, and mailing things back and forth is a pain. And if they do go under someday, yes it will be useless at it runs from a charge and plugging it in won't work unless the battery is viable. It uses a real flat custom shaped battery. I keep all of my old handhelds (just tinkered with my Atari Lynx the other day, works fine) so this one would be trouble someday.

Also you can't just put it away for a few weeks and not use it like the GP32, you must charge it about every two weeks. As it is basically a PDA it will go dead even when not in use as it keeps the clock and PDA stuff running. And yes you do need to keep it charged to keep your stuff in RAM, once the battery dies you need to restore your system from a computer as all of the system files and programs will be lost.

Also if Tapwave would ever go under you are screwed if you get a Zodiac from ebay or something and want to transfer your software and purchased emus to the new one because all commercial software is locked to ONE specific unit no you are SOL there too, as of now they don't offer games on a card.

 

[DaveC]

To be honest i wouldn't take prophets words as gospel.
...
Also, as hyped as the screen is, im sure i read somewhere that its size actually cripples it when it comes to full screen gaming, if anything it may have been too big.

...

Yeah Prophet is all over the place. First he got a Zodiac and then went around all of the boards boasting about how awesome the Zodiac is and how it is the best thing ever. Then after the joystick broke on two Zodiacs that he went through he dumped it. Then he bought an Asus pocket PC and went around the boards boasting about how great pocket PC is and about full speed SNES on it and how everyone should get a PPC etc. Now he is back with a Zodiac again and as long as the joystick doesn't break again he will be talking up the Z again. After reading his - Hi guys I'm back and Zodiac is the best, Zodiac rulez GP32 droolz - type GP32X post I even thought it was fantastic too. Until I remembered that I HAVE a Zodiac too and it is nice but I didn't think it is as fantastic as he makes it to be, not yet.


The screen "size" thing you are refering to is not about size it is about resolution. The Zodiac screen is higher res so when an emu of an old TV type game (NES, SNES, TG16 etc.) is running on the Zodiac at 1:1 you get a small game screen with a big border around it making the game screen too small. You can scale it up to full screen but then you get this terrible distortion in the pixels and ripply scrolling ,or blurryness if you use smoothing. Since the GP32 screen matches the original game resolution better at 1:1 (320 x 200 or 320 x 240 in most cases) you get a nice full screen image with a minimal or no border and with none of the distortion and artifacting caused by scaling.

 

[phoda]

I seriously thought about buying a Zodiac but the price tag was just too much. Now that I read about the battery - well, I'll just forget it - even if the price goes down. I just replaced a common battery for my Palm IIIc (yes, IIIc) and it cost me US$ 35. And this was supposed to be a bargain... I can only imagine how much it would cost to send something like that to Tapwave to get it transplanted.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

I seriously thought about buying a Zodiac but the price tag was just too much. Now that I read about the battery - well, I'll just forget it - even if the price goes down. I just replaced a common battery for my Palm IIIc (yes, IIIc) and it cost me US$ 35. And this was supposed to be a bargain... I can only imagine how much it would cost to send something like that to Tapwave to get it transplanted.

Thats so long as TapWave exists. Startup companies like this come and go, even big names making handhelds dont last long (Lynx, GameGear, etc..) all have come and gone. It may not be arround three years down the road when your battery finially gives up. Atleast with all those other handhelds, you can just goto the local convience store and pick up a pack of AA's and your all set. (or two packs in the case of GameGear lol)

And dont be fooled, your Zodiac battery WILL DIE, its inevitable, all batteries eventually give up after a couple years. Maybe you will get lucky and it will last 5 years, but, if zodiac isnt arround then, what are you going to do with your $400 paperweight?

Or whos to say they dont make sequel to the TapWave like Nokia is doing with their N-Gage, which will probably include a different proprietary battery, if so, then the original Tapwave's battery may become obsolete and unreplaceable even from TapWave (companies LOVE to do this and say "Well just upgrade to our new model!")

If TapWave gets rid of the battery issue in the Zodiac, I will give them a fat $400 for the Zodiac, I am willing to pay high prices for good products, otherwise, they can forget about my bussiness. I dont like the idea of buying something that has a limited lifespan.

 

[Esn]

So once for all :

! I DID NOT STOP WORKING ON GP32 !

I write stuff for Z but I'm in the process of debugging/giving the final touch to the
asm cpu core for os9xgp.

So please stop all this post/emails about me leaving the gp32 scene

Thank you.

 

[thebluenewt]

One more thing, I really wish everyone would stop talking about the PSP as an emu/homebrew system. It uses proprietary mini discs not to mention encryption people, you may not be able to do ANYTHING but buy commercial games for it.

Memory sticks, people always find a way.

 

[finty]

the zodiac just doesnt seem like it puts gaming first to me, i want a gp32 because its simple enough for me to get my head around, the zodiac, to me, seems like something a business man would carrry around, this is why i wont get a ppc either. the gp32 is a simple games machine at heart, so im gonna spend my cash on it instead of a fast palm with good games as an extra.

 

[yaustar]

I own a PPC and a GP32 and whatever the PPC was designed for, it wasn't gaming... it has the power but that is about it.... I generally use it for work witht he odd game on such as chess and the odd shoot em up... tempted by scumm though as it is suited to the stylus.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

One more thing, I really wish everyone would stop talking about the PSP as an emu/homebrew system. It uses proprietary mini discs not to mention encryption people, you may not be able to do ANYTHING but buy commercial games for it.

Memory sticks, people always find a way.

Yeah people always find a way, but will the "way" be worth the effort? What if you have to run a commercial game and keep your PSP hooked upto your PC while constantly streaming the game data through to the console (and maybe have a hardware mod to go with it), to play any homebrewn games? (Like the "Way" they found for the GC. Which happens to be the other system out there with a similar proprietary media format)

Now, how do you plan to "run" these games from the MemoryStick? Magic? The UMD is a highly propritary media format in a special custom case. Its not as easy as making a flashcart, there are no "writers available" for them, you wont be able to burn "boot disks" which boot off of the UMD. And if someone managed to somehow duplicate the UMD and make a boot disk (we are talking very heavy IFs here), and sold it (they wouldnt be able to keep reproducing them without a very VERY high cost, you thought flashcarts were expensive? haha wait tell you see how much these would be. Sony would simply take them to court like they did Bleem!, they wouldnt even need to win, just run them out of bussiness with legal fees.

The "way" wont be worth the effort. Dont delude yourself. Todate the only systems that have decent "ways" are systems with common reproducable media formats (and most of these require hardware mods as well) (CD/DVD/Flash/etc...) The UMD, a proprietary media format, in a special case, with the latest protection technology.

So will there be a way? Sure most likely, but I dont want to hook a hardware modded PSP up to my PC, while standing on my head, holding it sideways, and chanting my ABC's. Whatever "way" they manage to make will not be worth the effort, especially since there is GP32, Zodiac, and Gametrac, all systems that allow you to do all of that WITHOUT the run arround.

 

[Q-Wi-Q]

well, actually you don't know that for sure until it comes out; who knows what some crazy Korean guy might come up with

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

well, actually you don't know that for sure until it comes out; who knows what some crazy Korean guy might come up with

Not really, if you use common sense you can accuratly predict the results.

These IPSPAs love to spout that they PSP will be able to run hombrewn works "somehow", they really dont give any ideas or possiblities, they just love to argue.

There are only four possiblities that anyone has "come up with" that would allow the PSP to play homebrewn games. There isnt much else you can do with a handheld besides these four obvious options, here they are, and the realistic answer as to why they are not viable.

Possibility One: Someone creates a UMD writer with blank UMD media, cracks the encryption and copy protection (hardware mod probably), and sells these on a commercial scale.
Realistically: The cost to produce these, and the writers, and to purchase them, and the mod, etc... would be so high and cost so much (assuming that its possible) that for the common user to "burn and play" homebrewn games on their PSP, it would cost over $5,000. (the writers for sony's new format besides the UMD is $5000 alone, not to mention the price of the media) And this is assuming that sony doesnt come down hard on someone who illegally duplicated their patented proprietary media format and is selling it. (yeah like they would let THAT go) So can we safely remove this from the likely canidates? I think so.

Possiblity Two: Use the USB or EXT port to hook your PSP up to your PC and stream the "games" in realtime through the port.
Realistically: First, someone would have to make an unofficial UMD that allows you to stream the data, or, hope that someday they release a game which has an expliot that will let you do this (See GC & PSO for this example). Even if you managed that, somehow, still who wants a portable system that is not portable? who wants to play a SNES emulator on a handheld thats hooked upto your PC? When you can play the SNES emulator for free ON YOUR PC! So, can we safely remove this from the "worthy" canidates? Most assuredly.

Possiblity Three: Someone creates a unofficial UMD that boots games directly from the MemoryStick.
Realisitically To do this, again, someone would have to duplicate, and create a writer for, this patented, proprietary media format and sell it commercially, (see Possibility one) not to mention they would have to have cracked the bootup sequence or created a hardware modification. So again we are back to square one. UMD is a proprietary media format with no available writers/readers, enclosed in a custom case, using the most advanced encryption todate. Another removeal of possiblities? Looks like it.

Possiblity Four: Sony officially makes their PSP support running unofficial, unliceneced games via the MemStick.
Realistically: This is the least likely of the four to happen. First, sony makes _ALL_ of their money on licencing fees, to give developers (both commercial and hombrewn) the ability to bypass sony and make non licenced games for their system is absurd. Not to mention that sonys use of a new proprietary media format rather than use an existing format (mini-dvd etc...) is a clear indication that they do NOT want anyone messing with their system unoffically. So the argument that sony will make the PSP "officially" boot games from the Memstick is about as likely to happen as Nintendo officially supporting GBA emulators. And finially, this sound like its gonna happen? Doubt it.

So what does that leave us? Commercial Games.

(and even if someone managed to jump through all of those hoops, reproduce the UMD, create a writer for it, bypass the encryption and hardware protections, etc..., sony would simply run them out of bussiness via legal fees)

All of this IPSPA's who blindly say "oh sure it will have it!" should consider this, as it sounds like most of them just ignore the facts and data and just base their assumtions on this weak hope that this "god like" portable will be able to do homebrewn games as well.

Please dont reply with autonomous replies like "Im sure there will be a way" or "just wait and see" because those, unlike my post, are not backed or based on any kind of relative facts. Those are hopes, and very thin ones at that.

Creating UMD's is not as simple as creating a FlashCart. A FlashCart is simple, existing technology that has well documented specs and can easily, and cheaply be reproduced on a large scale. The UMD is a custom, patented, proprietary media format with no available blank media or writers. And the rest of the systems that have "found ways" do so by hardware mods and widely available cheap open media formats.
If you want to look at another system that has a proprietary media format similar to UMD, look no further then the GC, which, the only "way" they found, was to load up Phatansy Star Online while your PC is hooked up to your GC via a network cable and you stream the games from your harddrive to the GC while playing. Although thats not THAT bad of a method for a console, it makes a portable system, unportable, defeating the purpose of having it really.

EDIT: Just so you dont think I am anti-PSP in anyway, I think the PSP will be the biggest, best, most worthy handheld for commercial games the world has seen. Leaving GB/GBC/GBA/DS behind in their dust. I am a big sony fan! But I am also a realist.

EDIT 2: ReFormated/Cleaned up the post, made it easier to read.

 

[triksR4rabits]

Damn Akuma no Houkon, that was Ridiculous. Mad props for those replies!

 

[Phil]

Akuma no Houkon, crushing childrens dreams since '96.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

Akuma no Houkon, crushing childrens dreams since '96.

No, im just a realist. I dont it when people create these compeletly bogus possiblities just because they cannot face the truth of the matter.

Is it possible that something/someone may, eventually, create something, that was completely unexpeceted and allow the PSP to play homebrewn games without using your college fund and voiding your warrenty, semi-legally, while still maintaining its portablility? Sure, realistically anything is possible, if I flip a coin, it IS possible that it will land on its side, rather than heads or tails, but realistically whats the chances of that?

Do I want PSP to be able to use homebrewn games without nasty hacks, cables, and odd setups? Hell ya! There isnt anything I could want more. But, reality doesnt always fit in with my perfect vision of things. And I accept that, and move on. Something these IPSPA's cant seem to do.

 

[DaveC]

Akuma no Houkon, crushing childrens dreams since '96.

Reality is a bitch man. Things aren't magic.

When I first said this in my post I didn't go into detail of why people should stop talking about PSP for homebrew. But the reasons behind my post were exactly what Akuma explained out in detail.

We have now the GP32 which may well be one of the best homebrew systems for awhile we should be happy with that. Although Zodiac was mentioned it is not quite as easy to work with from a dev point of view as the GP32 is from what I have heard (Palm OS can be a bitch). Also about Gametrac, this is an unknown as well. While it uses common media it is still not known whether it will be possible to run unsigned/unencrypted apps. So even if you can get the code into the system there are no guarantees that it will run without a hardware mod. The Xbox for example uses common media and with that you need to hack up your hardware to get homebrew to work.

So for now enjoy your GP32

 

[kraahl]

Since there are pirated GB/GBA games produced in asia, I am sure they could pirate UMD-disks too.
So it might be possible to run pirated games.

 

[Akuma no Houkon]

Since there are pirated GB/GBA games produced in asia, I am sure they could pirate UMD-disks too.
So it might be possible to run pirated games.

Yeah and it might be possible for that coin I flipped to land on edge. Probable? Not in the least bit.

You IPSPA's keep comparing apples to oranges. Do you know how easy it is to reproduce a cartridge (which is basically just a simple ROM extension of the hardware) as compared to a patented, un documented, proprietary media format?

Lets assume someone did, lets assume that a rouge sony employee ran away with all the technicall documentation and managed to make a cd press that can write the proper UMD format and managed to produce this media on an affordable scale (we are really streaching reality in this assumption), how long do you think it will take for sony to crack down on them if it ever got "main stream"? Do any of you remember Tengen? Nintendo sued them big time for their "unlicenced" NES games. They didnt last too long in court. And sony has shown time and time again that they are willing to take someone to court over something like this, and they dont even have to win! Theres the beauty! They just run you out of bussiness with legal fees.

And lets say they didnt, lets say they managed to get enough $ to fight sony (now whos living in a fantasy world!), what would it get you? A commercial company that can make unlicenced PSP games. THATS IT. Where does homebrewn games/emulators etc... come into play? You still dont have access to any writeable UMD, or a UMD writer, and you wont ever for under $5,000 IF sony ever releases one which is doubtfull. And last time I checked Tengen Tetris doesnt allow me to boot up homebrewn games.



You can say well MAYBE this unlicenced company that MIGHT find a way to make UMD's MAY, EVENTUALLY, make a UMD bootloader that boots games from the MemStick (and somehow sony is asleep during this decade and lets this happen without a lawsuit) do you think sony is that stupid?

Do you think you have magicially found an exploit in a system that hasnt even been released yet? You dont think sony would put some kind of protection that would easily block people from trying to run unlicenced games from the MemStick?

Sony has most likely invested millions in the security aspect alone, do you think that something as obvious as this would get overlooked?

All of these IPSPA's propoganda is filled with MIGHT, MAYBE, IF, POSSIBLY. Just because they do not want to face the harsh reality.

Live in reality, Like DaveC said, Reality is a Bitch. Get over it.

Why does nearly every topic about other platforms end up in some way being poluted by Ignorant PSP Advocates? Not a single one so far has ever given a viable reason as to why PSP is going to be the next gen homebrewn system. Usually they compare apples to oranges (well the PSX can do it so the PSP should be able to too!) ignoring the cold hard facts, like the PSX uses standard writeable cds available for $0.5 each and can be written on by nearly every cd writer in the world. They somehow try and compare this to a propriteary media format with no blanks or writers available in the world.