Nulldce On The Beagleboard

[PandoraRox]

Question-

anything that works on the beagleboard can be run on the pandora, correct?

Sort of a mixed question only because it depends on how technical you want to get.

1. Binaries that work/compiled on the BeagleBoard.
Yes, if the libraries are there and compatible on the Pandora image.
2. Hardware compatability.
Yes, however the BeagleBoard doesn't come with all of the same hardware such as bluetooth, wireless, etc. However the SoC core is identical (might be a smaller RAM & NAND amount depending on your BeagleBoard rev #)
3. Operating System components.
Similar. The BeagleBoard angstrom image and the Pandora angstrom image should be very similar (built using similar software and toolchain), but not necessary identical. Things like the windowmanager are different (e17 instead of matchbox), but the low level core components (bash, busybox, glibc, gcc) are probably very close. The kernel however can be a bit different. Pandora is using a customized 2.6.27 kernel, some newer BeagleBoard angstrom images are using 2.6.28/2.6.29. This actually can be a major difference since there have been a lot of changes lately for the Omap kernel, and I know some of this has been backported to the Pandora 2.6.27-omap kernel.
4. Can I develop for the Pandora using the BeagleBoard as a dev unit (what I think you may really have tried to ask)
Yes. There are instructions floating around that you can use to build the Pandora angstrom image and then map it to your beagleboard.
a. build the Pandora angstrom image.
b. go to eLinux website and follow the beagleboard installation instructions for angstrom
c. install your angstrom image instead of the beagleboard version.
d. Use a kernel from the beagleboard angstrom builds. (Pandora kernel may work, not sure)
e. Boot.
f. Login.
g. Play.


thanks for the reply. what i was really asking was if programs made for pandora on the beagleboard will run with little to no trouble on a pandora. I may not develop for the pandora, but who knows?

 

[Pleng]

Goooooood times ahead

Let's not get carried away just yet. The bootup screen surely isn't the most hardware-intensive task, it it? If that's not running at full speed I'm sure that games which make use of the 3D hardware are going to crawl along.

Still, as has been said before, it's an early unoptimized build and the hardware is running at 600/55. Maybe, just maybe, I'll one day have the portable Daytona I've always dreamed of!

Do do dodo do do dodo do do dodo do dooooooo....

yeeeee

 

[Mithrildor]

Id be really happy if we could get 30 FPS with a optimized Dreamcast Emulator.

 

[Phawx]

Id be really happy if we could get 30 FPS with a optimized Dreamcast Emulator.

I don't think you are emphasizing "really happy" correctly. Because if we had a Dreamcast Emulator running at 30FPS on our Pandora's, I don't think my sentiments could be captured in a few words, let alone a paragraph.

I won't get myself excited though. Just seeing the boot screen it cool enough for me

 

[giovanni]

Id be really happy if we could get 15 FPS
However great work

 

[Mithrildor]

Yes, I would be really really really happy if I could play dreamcast at 30 FPS on pandora. I will be happy with a emulator only able to run Sonic Adventure 2 at 30 FPS and the rest at 15 FPS. I would be really happy if it is just a bit playable.

 

[craigix]

Well I guess we will see DC emulation, however slow, on the Pandora.

What I'm more excited about is that it could well be full speed come the OMAP4 in a few years.

 

[WizardStan]

What I'm more excited about is that it could well be full speed come the OMAP4 in a few years.

>.>
<.<
yeah, why not.

Confirmed: Pandora 2 is only a few years away and will feature the OMAP4

 

[Exophase]

is that with no frameskip? if no frameskip and you think it's running about half speed then we would be able to get up to 60FPS with frameskip of 1 although I appreciate the splash screen isn't taxing the hardware?

Frameskip doesn't work like that. Unless the SGX is a bottleneck for displaying this particular scene (doubt it) then I don't think frameskip would help any.

If this is like the PSP version then the SH4 core will be emulating a much smaller number of instructions per second than it normally is in the emulator. I doubt many games would run correctly like this. Good speed comparison though, it's nice to see the Pandora is this much faster than the PSP.

There's no recompiler, right? I should probably ignore any messages that would suggest otherwise?

 

[fiveseven]

Confirmed: Pandora 2 is only a few years away and will feature the OMAP4

Confirmed: Pandora 2 due for release before Pandora 1


Seriously though, even the bios is amazing, let alone any games. This far surpasses any expectations I ever had about DC emulation on Pandora. I had the impression it would take at least a couple years and some heavy optimization to even get a few fps!

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

Id be really happy if we could get 30 FPS with a optimized Dreamcast Emulator.

I don't think you are emphasizing "really happy" correctly. Because if we had a Dreamcast Emulator running at 30FPS on our Pandora's, I don't think my sentiments could be captured in a few words, let alone a paragraph.

I won't get myself excited though. Just seeing the boot screen it cool enough for me

same here I don't know much, but judging from the fact that the dreamcast uses an arm cpu (while the sh4 might be powerful, it doesn't really reflect how its used in games), we might look at some pretty funky optimizations in the future
keep up the great work!

 

[Exophase]

same here I don't know much, but judging from the fact that the dreamcast uses an arm cpu (while the sh4 might be powerful, it doesn't really reflect how its used in games), we might look at some pretty funky optimizations in the future
keep up the great work!

What are you talking about? The Dreamcast has an ARM, but it's many times weaker than the SH4 (which is NOT an ARM, in case you were wondering). Games don't really push it very hard so it doesn't have to be emualted at anywhere near full speed either.

 

[Eso Rimmer]

Judging from these two videos beagleboard seems to run the nullDC nearly 2x faster at 500MHz and PVR@50MHz.
This together with overclocked Pandora and some good optimisations could lead to the state where the possible and the impossible meet and thus DC emulation on Pandora gets possimpible.

 

[jaycee900]

Great work drkIIRaziel! If possible can you show us Crazy Taxi running on 600mhz and 110 mhz to give us comparisons between this and the PSP version, also since the game is not graphically intense as Shemue so the framerate should (hopefully) be at least playable without optimizing and overclocking.
THanks, keep up the great work, its really appreciated!

 

[Trip]

That's a damn good start. Looking forward to seeing what happens next

 

[Phawx]

Just so I am clear. This only boots the bios at the moment?

 

[Yod4z]

Just so I am clear. This only boots the bios at the moment?

yes i think, the dev have no time to work more than the ARMv7 ASM SH4 core

 

[drkIIRaziel]

If this is like the PSP version then the SH4 core will be emulating a much smaller number of instructions per second than it normally is in the emulator. I doubt many games would run correctly like this. Good speed comparison though, it's nice to see the Pandora is this much faster than the PSP.

There's no recompiler, right? I should probably ignore any messages that would suggest otherwise?

There is a very basic rec, just split blocks and recompiles 6 or so opcodes (add, sub,and, or , xor .. and maby a few more ..).For the rest it fallbacks to the interpreter.Its running underclocked (but less than the psp version -- all fpu ops are assumed to take a single cycle).As with the psp version the RPS field is a good indicator of the speed no matter the underclock (RPS = renders per second).The sh4 underclock doesn't affect any games as far as i know.

Seriously though, even the bios is amazing, let alone any games. This far surpasses any expectations I ever had about DC emulation on Pandora. I had the impression it would take at least a couple years and some heavy optimization to even get a few fps!

Uh, you can get a few fps with a simple interpreter.With a couple of years you can get many fps

Judging from these two videos beagleboard seems to run the nullDC nearly 2x faster at 500MHz and PVR@50MHz.
This together with overclocked Pandora and some good optimisations could lead to the state where the possible and the impossible meet and thus DC emulation on Pandora gets possimpible.

Actually, if you look at the numbers its almost 4x faster (~20 rps for pandora,~5.3 rps for psp).Also keep in mind that overclocking the pandora IS gona damage the cpu.Even 600 mhz are known to reduce singifically the cpu's life.Do you really want it to die faster after all the waits?

Yes, it can boot games.Many don't work (mostly because of the missing aica emulation).For game videos the rendering code needs much more work - unlike the bios that only uses a few textures and low poly stuff games use many textures and quite a bit geometry.Also texture handling atm upconverts all textures to 32 bit ones and that adds up.
Games that are known to work (as tested by me using the win86 build) are : Shenmue, Crazy Taxi, DOA2 (both LE and normal), Time stalkers, Dave Mirra, Rayman 2, Grandia 2, MDK2, Prince Of Persia 3D.Note thats only an inclusive only list -- anything not listed here is not tested
Also note that the counters could be off because i'm not quite sure the way i measure time is accurate

 

[Butterman]

The dreamcast is easily the best console i've ever owned, everything about it was just awesome. Chu Chu Rocket online, Jet Set Radio, Shenmue. Oh Shenmue, (plugs Dreamcast into TV).

If we had dreamcast emulation on the Pandora, I would cream myself. Constantly.

 

[conso]

Yes, I keep my Dreamcast always connected to my PC. Actually, it's still the most recent gaming console I own - can't wish for more. Crazy Taxy 2, Virtua Tennis, Sonic Adventure, Soul Calibur, Worms Armageddon and I could go on and on and on. It really has an amazing list of games and having them portable would be a dream coming true.

A shame that nullDC doesn't work with wine for me. Then I'd at least have dreamcast on my laptop ^^

One thing about overclocking: The omap in the pandora is default clocked to 600Mhz, not 500 Mhz.