No reason to bash (2010-12-15)

[EvilDragon]

I just closed the other thread, as a lot of bashing has been going on there.


Please, do NOT bash against CircuitCo here. If you want to discuss about any issue, please do so in an appropriate manner.


After all, CC did the following:


They DID produce 900 perfectly working boards so far. None of the boards sent to our customers failed.


They DID help us setting up the production!


Yes, they told us 2000 boards are ready and Trey only found about 500 half-finished ones.


However, they WERE working on the boards when he visited!


As mentioned, I can PERFECTLY understand if they didn't do anything because they have been waiting for the nubs.


Yes, I also don't like that we have been told they were working on the boards - but maybe they had a reason for telling us so?


They know we are not experienced in that business, so they might've told us because they feared we would panic otherwise.


Before getting angry at anyone, let's wait how the production continues.


I am still waiting for an official updated schedule for the next 1000 boards and I will let you know as soon as I get it.


As I said multiple times:


If all they had been waiting for was the nubs and the production continues work flawlessly now, there is NO REASON to stop working with them or be angry against them.


I did not make the previous thread to ATTACK CircuitCo (you could also see that from the replies I gave there), it was to inform you that it will take a bit longer as more has to be done than just solder the nubs.


If it sounded like a direct attack, I am sorry to both you and CircuitCo. If I hadn't told you though, you would've been angry at us because we didn't tell you the truth.


If you want to discuss about that here, please do so in a reasonable way. Thanks.


Thank you.

 

[Beej199]

Hope the previous thread doesnt put you off posting your informative updates Ed?

 

[sverm]

That being said, there's a bunch of pretty neat videos on YouTube about CircuitCo building stuff like BeagleBoards. There are many similarities between the Pandora and BeagleBoard so one could almost say the video is also applicable to the Pandora. Either way, I thought it was pretty neat to watch.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Yu-P6vvtr9A?feature=oembed too!

 

[WizardStan]

I highly doubt the CEO or anyone else actually read the old thread. More than likely they have a bot which periodically googles their name, found the official news post, forwarded it to some one in the mail room, who noticed that "EvilDragon" said some not nice things about them (whether it is true or not) who then forwarded it to the legal team who brought it to the CEOs attention. The CEO probably didn't even read it himself, just went on the advice of the lawyers that someone was saying not-nice things and obviously that can't be true. I've dealt with such lawyers before: they can never be wrong. Even when they're provably wrong, they have the power to still not be wrong. Actually, that may just be all lawyers.

 

[FaeMinx]

Closing the other thread was a GREAT idea!


Thank you ED!


CircuitCo, if you are reading this... We really appreciate that you are working on our boards. I sincerely hope that your association with the OP team turns out to profitable and long-standing. I personally understand and give you all my support. I am sure that there are many here who feel likewise!


Thank you so much!

 

[andyhamer]

Hurrah, common sense prevails at last -


A winner is you Ed..

 

[DaMummy]

we never said anything bad about their work, we know they have done some outstanding work and everything they have done for us has been outstanding, but we do need to get a point across that we dont want them lying to us, everyone here understands that it would be a bad idea for them to make 8000 boards and not be sure if they would ever get the nubs to finish them so they could get paid for the boards, but it needs to be clear that we dont want them lying to us, we've faced many more outrageous delays like a goddamn volcano, a company not wanting to take a chance on OP is the most understanding delay we may have had, im sure everyone here would understand if they would have said that they dont want to make more boards until they get nubs or anything else they may need from OPT, we and OPT can deal with it, i dont think i need to point out any proof that everyone here is unbelievably patient. but we cannot afford anything less then 100% honesty, and we depend on you EvilDragon to get that point across to them, and if they even think of defiling yours or OPTs name, then they should know that you guys have a community that will bungee jump off your balls to protect your name, we are quite familiar with your customer support ED, and if they even think of saying anything bad about the way to run your business theyre going to have a full inbox of links to threads and PM's of your support

 

[Abaddon666]

By the way:


- 500 boards were supposed to be "half finished" on friday


- Wednesday is almost over now


When will the next 500 finished and tested boards finally leave this factory? I can't really see this going faster now, no reasen to get optimistic for me. Each step has literally taken ages so far and I can't see an ending to this any time soon.


I'll wait, no matter how long it takes. But of course I had hoped for a Pandora this christmas, especially as a day 1 preorderer who has seen the first units being delivered about half a year ago...


Gute Besserung ED, take good care of yourself. There's not much you can do about it now anyhow.

 

[marktuson]

we never said anything bad about their work, we know they have done some outstanding work and everything they have done for us has been outstanding, but we do need to get a point across that we dont want them lying to us, everyone here understands that it would be a bad idea for them to make 8000 boards and not be sure if they would ever get the nubs to finish them so they could get paid for the boards, but it needs to be clear that we dont want them lying to us, we've faced many more outrageous delays like a goddamn volcano, a company not wanting to take a chance on OP is the most understanding delay we may have had, im sure everyone here would understand if they would have said that they dont want to make more boards until they get nubs or anything else they may need from OPT, we and OPT can deal with it, i dont think i need to point out any proof that everyone here is unbelievably patient. but we cannot afford anything less then 100% honesty, and we depend on you EvilDragon to get that point across to them, and if they even think of defiling yours or OPTs name, then they should know that you guys have a community that will bungee jump off your balls to protect your name, we are quite familiar with your customer support ED, and if they even think of saying anything bad about the way to run your business theyre going to have a full inbox of links to threads and PM's of your support

In that case, maybe what is needed is a revision to the contract where the payments are split into installments based on progress:

1. PCB manufacture
   
2. ICs
   
3. Discrete components
   
4. Nubs
   

Leave the nubs 'till last, that way everything except them can be done and they can have their payments, then when they get the nubs and solder them on, they get the bill balanced completely.

 

[DaMummy]

on the other hand, lets get a look at those balls...

https://www.youtube.com/embed/LCdCrcaj0Lk?feature=oembed
i dont really know what to make of this video, either these guys have a good sense of humor, which i like, or these guys are some idiots, which im jealous of

 

[007jaws]

Closing the other thread was a GREAT idea!


Thank you ED!


CircuitCo, if you are reading this... We really appreciate that you are working on our boards. I sincerely hope that your association with the OP team turns out to profitable and long-standing. I personally understand and give you all my support. I am sure that there are many here who feel likewise!


Thank you so much!

Totally agree about the other thread, Yes we appreciate all the work CircuitCo is doing at this satge of assembly and we are patiently waiting for the next lot of boards, Hopefully next year we are done with Batch 1.

 

[DynaMight]

In fairness to CC, I'm sure they know that OP is ran on a shoe string budget and I doubt they want to be building thousands of boards then for OP to turn around and say 'opps the nubs are never gonna work, gonna scrap the whole project' kcya.


Important thing is that theres no excuses now, so all being well they will finish the boards in good time. Should be no reasons for delays now.... Still expecting to wait 2 months for mine tho :lol:

 

[Caine]

Thanks for stepping in ED, it was getting out of hand.


Currently I only know three products being made by CircuitCo: the Beagleboard, Pandaboard and the Pandora. All three of them are awesome! They certainly deserve credit for that.


Hopefully we will soon see a nice stream of shiny boards heading to the UK.

 

[Scntrblob]

In position of CC, I doubt I would have done anything else. I would go as far as claiming, 90% here would have done so, too. Going on with the production would have been crazy, even if OPT wanted them to (yeah, I know it's easy to say that afterwards).


Just keep calm and wait, like we did it the last 2 years.


...oh and throw a "I stand behind you, ED(Craig||OPT||whatever)" every week. I think helps. So for that reason: Keep it on ED! I've no doubt you guys will manage this quest! B) (...and remember: "A good coffee a day keeps problems away")

 

[WizardStan]

In position of CC, I doubt I would have done anything else. I would go as far as claiming, 90% here would have done so, too. Going on with the production would have been crazy, even if OPT wanted them to (yeah, I know it's easy to say that afterwards).

You are saying 90% of the board would have lied to OPT? :blink:

 

[Sugar_Kane]

I trust them, I think they just gaffed the dates so that you wouldn't get nervous. It's understandable that they wouldn't keep production going until they knew when they would have the nubs, considering that they've stopped and started production so many times alread, as you've said. I expect they thought that this would be a simple job, straight into production and then off the floor for delivery, without taking up storage or cutting into production of other contracts. So I think they did what they did to give you confidence in them, as they knew they could deliver, but didn't want you to panic and force them to take action immediately, costing them money and time from other orders that could be completed in the nub-void.

 

[Scntrblob]

You are saying 90% of the board would have lied to OPT? :blink:

No. But think from the view of CC: There is a company coming, that wants to have 4000 boards assembled. This company is very small and they sometimes don't make a secret around it, that have been naive. Now they don't deliver the parts you need (the nubs). Would you continue producing? No, because if they go bankrupt, you lost the money. So what to tell OpenPandora? That you won't go on producing until they deliver? How would you know how OP reacts? If you first tell them, that you won't go on, but OP wants you to do so and you then say that you will do so? How would that look like? So why not telling them that you will go on from the beginning? They don't have the chance to control it anyway(...how should you know about Trey?), and the problem is solved.


...I don't say it's right, but I think thats the way it goes.


(excuse my bad english)

 

[elcorazon]

I ordered day one, and I'm still behind you guys all the way! Given the complexity of this project I'm amazed you managed to get this so near to shipping with 'relativly' few issues.


The product is fantastic, and i'm sure most people on the boards realise that it will get here as soon as it's ready!

 

[DaMummy]

thats why i said, ed needs to get a point across to them that we need honesty from now on, not what can be done in best impossible case scenario, not what has been done when it obviously hasnt, trust goes a long way in the business world, plain and simple, they shouldn't've lied to opt, on the other hand, please continue to produce more boards :}

 

[WizardStan]

No.

But you just said you thought 90% of the board would do the same :blink:


No one is saying they didn't make the right business decision waiting. That was obviously the intelligent thing to do. The complaint is that they lied about it. I do not think 90%, or even any measurable percent of people on this board would have done the same.


This is what caused the last thread to go bad. Two groups of people, one saying "they made the right business decision" and the second saying "no one is saying they didn't, but they didn't have to lie about it."


The "right business decision" group says their thing, so a "didn't have to lie about it" person responds accordingly, to which another "right business decision" person responds, and back and forth, arguing the same point from two different angles and getting nowhere. Both arguments are correct: they made the right business decision waiting, and it is morally questionable that they lied about having completed the boards.


So in the interest of moving things forward, I'll pose a new question. Given that waiting for nubs is agreed to be the right business response, and lying about is a questionably moral decision, what about the business decision of lying about it? On the one hand, it kept OPT from seeking out alternatives (although I don't believe they would have dropped CC, CC had no way of knowing this so had to tip things in their favour), but on the other hand they have now tarnished their reputation. DISCUSS!