News From Gph

[DaveC]

The GCO in Leipzig is over - and I got quite a few news directly from GPH.
Here is a short summary:

Another interesting thing is that GPH plans to license some ROMS for emulators. I doubt Sega or Nintendo might license anything, but some Arcade-companies already licensed some of their games to other companies, so it might work out here.
This could make it possible to legally emulate some Arcade classics!

I don't know if this is actually that great - what happens to emulators like FBA and MAME4ALL that already do that kind of thing for *ahem* free?

I don't think that plan is for us here. Obviously we wouldn't bother. It could be so that they could sell the unit bundled with a bunch of arcade classics etc out of the box for the general public that may not be into getting "warez" on their own. This way it could be sold like those cheapo Caplet things that came bundled with a bunch of games maybe. Then more could be ordered online or something.

I do think that them making games for the Wiz = FAIL. They should concentrate on the SDK more (end of the year? what a joke, seeing how bad the scene is now by then it will be totally gone without an SDK) as that is where all of the software will come from. A few GP32 ports will not do well, it is a waste of their time and money. The above mentioned "general public" would not bother either as those games pale in comparison to stuff on the PSP or DS. Who will bother with "Blood Cross" when all of the KOF games, SFII, Samurai Shodown etc are better and "free". If they must do games why not use that 3D chip that as of now is a waste of silicon in the Wiz.

 

[Quiest]

...
They should concentrate on the SDK more (end of the year? what a joke, seeing how bad the scene is now by then it will be totally gone without an SDK) as that is where all of the software will come from.
...

Exactly what I thought.

 

[torpor]

I think this represents an opportunity for us, DaveC .. if the SDK isn't going to ship by the end of the year, then we homebrew'ers have a chance to kick some ass, chew gum, and write some code.

 

[notaz]

I don't get that SDK talk. We already have it, take any GP2X SDK and code what you want. The only problem I see is missing proper 3D libraries.

 

[EvilDragon]

The GCO in Leipzig is over - and I got quite a few news directly from GPH.
Here is a short summary:

Another interesting thing is that GPH plans to license some ROMS for emulators. I doubt Sega or Nintendo might license anything, but some Arcade-companies already licensed some of their games to other companies, so it might work out here.
This could make it possible to legally emulate some Arcade classics!

I don't know if this is actually that great - what happens to emulators like FBA and MAME4ALL that already do that kind of thing for *ahem* free?

Some people do want to play emulators LEGALLY.
And I don't think they will release emulators for all ROMS (MAME can't be sold commercially, for example), but you can license the ROMS.

 

[EvilDragon]

Another thing:

Looks like there were some communication problems between GPH and me (which can happen, if both have to communicate with a foreign language).
The F300 is just an idea at the moment. It MIGHT see the light of the day, but that's not decided yet. We'll see if and when that happens

 

[rx_shorty]

Ahhh ok

Well yeah some of my customers I really interested.
About the games, DRM is necessary, if you like it or not...

Only problem that can pop up is if you exchange your unit for warrenty issues.

 

[forgeflow]

I don't use IE, but it isn't THAT bad.

Yes, it is. As a guy who builds websites as part of their job description, IE is the bottom of the barrel when it comes to modern browser features. You develop for Firefox/Safari/Opera, and then you hack it to death to get it to work on IE.

To build properly interactive, modern webpages, you need a couple of technologies - you need a server-side scripting language such as PHP to deal with dynamic content, database interaction, form processing, etc. You need client-side scripting such as javascript to provide interactive control, form pre-processing, and some special CSS manipulation based on time or user interaction. If you really need to execute complex code client-side, you have Java and Flash. All of those technologies are largely browser and platform independent. There is no need at all in the modern web for something like ActiveX. Anyone doing web design these days who relies on ActiveX solutions should quit - they are incompetent.

 

[notaz]

There is no need at all in the modern web for something like ActiveX.

Agreed, but ED mentioned here that they are going to use that for copy protection - to read Wiz ID over USB (and generate some sort of activation file for games I guess). Not saying this is a good idea (like Craig said it will be cracked anyway), but you can't do this with JS.

 

[absolofdoom]

They will just copy them anyway though. Seems like an annoying issue for honest people. I think it's pretty well established DRM is a bad idea.

I agree with craig here. I was thinking about actually buying some of them, but if they're DRM'd...probably not. I hate DRM with a passion. Usually when something's DRM'd I just pirate it so I don't have to deal with that crap, tbh.

 

[Orkie]

I agree with craig here. I was thinking about actually buying some of them, but if they're DRM'd...probably not. I hate DRM with a passion. Usually when something's DRM'd I just pirate it so I don't have to deal with that crap, tbh.

If you are willing to go to the effort of getting around the DRM, would you really have bought it anyway? Given that most people on GP32x only came here for piracy, I have a hard time believing that it is a completely rational decision to just trust them. I've always had the nagging feeling that pretty much anybody here who is anti-DRM only wants it out of the way to give them the opportunity to freeload if at any point they wish to. I understand that DRM doesn't necessarily make more people buy a game, but I also don't buy the whole "they wouldn't have bought it anyway" thing: if you aren't willing to pay, there is no way you should get to use what I have made (more a moral justification for DRM than a financial one).

 

[absolofdoom]

I agree with craig here. I was thinking about actually buying some of them, but if they're DRM'd...probably not. I hate DRM with a passion. Usually when something's DRM'd I just pirate it so I don't have to deal with that crap, tbh.

If you are willing to go to the effort of getting around the DRM, would you really have bought it anyway? Given that most people on GP32x only came here for piracy, I have a hard time believing that it is a completely rational decision to just trust them. I've always had the nagging feeling that pretty much anybody here who is anti-DRM only wants it out of the way to give them the opportunity to freeload if at any point they wish to. I understand that DRM doesn't necessarily make more people buy a game, but I also don't buy the whole "they wouldn't have bought it anyway" thing: if you aren't willing to pay, there is no way you should get to use what I have made (more a moral justification for DRM than a financial one).

The very idea of DRM bothers me, not just the implementation, though that obviously bothers me too. If I pay for something, I shouldn't have to jump through hurdles to please who I bought it from, nor should I be limited in what I can do with it. Plus, if I do pay for something DRM'd, I'm supporting the people who are doing that to me, letting them know that it's okay for them to keep doing it.

For an example, I used to pirate all my music, but once iTunes got rid of DRM, I started buying it. (You might then tell me I could have bought it on another store, but you'd be wrong. They sell iTunes cards in real stores, they don't do that with any other music store, at least not where I live (and I did look very hard for amazon cards but couldn't find any). My parents won't let me use their credit cards, so iTunes or pirating were my only options.)

Exactly what is your point, though? That they should have DRM? It looks more like you're just unfairly bashing people, especially with that generalizing "most people on GP32x" bit. You're entitled to your opinion, but so am I, and mine is that DRM will only hurt people who buy the software, and anyone who would have pirated it will anyways, because they DON'T CARE. I don't actually have to justify my actions to anyone but myself. And...that's all I'm going to say about it, there are enough discussions on DRM already, IMO.

 

[neko]

GPH is a strange situation. They're a tech company with no technical staff. Basically GamePark was founded by a group of investors who got a grant from the Korean government to make a game console. Now those people are at GPH, but they still do not have any technical expertise, so they outsource everything to contractors, who often get it wrong.

So in South Korea the government gives grants to fund companies who are making a profit? That's a pretty interesting kind of capitalism >_>

The original GamePark did not make a profit, and went bankrupt. They were focused on trying to compete with Nintendo, rather than homebrew and open source.

Trying to beat Nintendo has long been a goal of the South Korean government. Their current president appears to be supportive of this as well.

See: http://gamepolitics.com/2009/02/06/south-korea039s-president-wants-take-nintendo

 

[Exophase]

Yeah, I know about South Korea's desires to make a "Korean DS." It's still a strange model to make a grant out to start up a for-profit company, regardless of whether they actually succeeded or not. In my opinion, anyway.

Really the South Korean government should get a reality check, there's little chance a local company there will be wildly competitive in the gaming hardware market any time soon, especially against Nintendo. Especially on a worldwide scale. That newspost had some insightful commentary.

 

[neko]

It's still a strange model to make a grant out to start up a for-profit company, regardless of whether they actually succeeded or not. In my opinion, anyway.

The US government does this too (eg: Tesla Motors). Usually it's in the form of a loan or tax break, but either way the government takes the loss if the company goes bankrupt.

 

[craigix]

Indeed, this is the kind of grant offered to the Pandora project but we turned it down. They have too much say in what we do.

 

[Esn]

The original GamePark did not make a profit, and went bankrupt. They were focused on trying to compete with Nintendo, rather than homebrew and open source.

Game Park survived for TWO YEARS after the end of the GP32's life cycle, despite not being able to release a single damn thing after GPH split off from them and released the GP2X. That suggests that they had some nice cash reserves or something. The fact that they continued to support such a niche console for half a decade, while many bigger companies couldn't manage a year or a even a few months (SNK, Tiger, Tapwave...) suggests success to me.

 

[Exophase]

The US government does this too (eg: Tesla Motors). Usually it's in the form of a loan or tax break, but either way the government takes the loss if the company goes bankrupt.

A loan or a tax break is not the same thing as a grant.

 

[EvilDragon]

The very idea of DRM bothers me, not just the implementation, though that obviously bothers me too. If I pay for something, I shouldn't have to jump through hurdles to please who I bought it from, nor should I be limited in what I can do with it. Plus, if I do pay for something DRM'd, I'm supporting the people who are doing that to me, letting them know that it's okay for them to keep doing it.

For an example, I used to pirate all my music, but once iTunes got rid of DRM, I started buying it. (You might then tell me I could have bought it on another store, but you'd be wrong. They sell iTunes cards in real stores, they don't do that with any other music store, at least not where I live (and I did look very hard for amazon cards but couldn't find any). My parents won't let me use their credit cards, so iTunes or pirating were my only options.)

Well, there's a difference here.
I didn't like DRM'ed MP3s since I couldn't use them on my normal server, MP3 Player, GP2X, etc.
It only works with an appropriate device.

The DRM'ed WIZ Games work on the WIZ. And... ermm... what else are you planning to use them for?
If your WIZ is broken and you get a new one in exchange, there surely can be done something for you so you get a new version of the game.

 

[DaveC]

Yeah I will never buy DRM crap either.

If your Wiz breaks then you have to e-mail someone in Korea and hope they agree to let you have the games you paid for. You will have to explain how your old unit broke and hope they don't think you are just trying to make an extra backup copy of the game you paid for. If they don't believe you or just ignore your e-mail then you are out the cost of all the stuff you bought.

If your Wiz breaks in the future and you buy a replacement off of ebay or something and GPH is not around anymore, or they just stop offering this service then again, you lose.

Either way it is a big hassle to search around and gather all of the information you had when you bought the game and have to go beg to them "Please let me use my games, please, I am not a pirate"

No thanks.