New Iphone 3g S Has Same Hardware As Pandora

[valhalla]

When the end user only needs to pay .99 cents for apps and games it kinda puts to question the need for an open source device. To get any extra app for Pandora would require contributing to the Developers Fund and hoping they keep their word. In the end you always wind up paying for what you want.

Open source is not (only) about the price of apps, it's more about knowing that the software you're using won't stop working for untechnical reasons like an expiry code or a missing activation server; it's about being able to recompile it for a new device; it's also about being able to trust the software not to do anything against your will, at least more than proprietary alternatives.

For a developer, even a closed source one, an open source device means being sure that you will be able to distribute and sell your work: after you've spent many hours of work on your next product, being told that you can't sell it because somebody in apple censoring department decided he doesn't like it is definitely not fun.

 

[SNESFAN]

ya know, this really isn't that horrible of an idea, the panda is open so obviously you can put whatever os on it you want. I for one would love to have the option to run the iphone os, it's very polished, fast and user friendly. Takes everything I like about the ipod/iphone, and then gives it controls other than the touch screen, which imo was it's one and only downfall. If it is possible to port osx to an intel & amd based non apple pc, i'm sure with very similar hardware that the iphone os could be ported to pandora. As far as the reaction from apple will probably be as weak as the hackntosh, and hell if you're buying apps from their app store with it... they might not totally hate the idea as they get a fairly large chunk of each lisence sold from there.

I've seen physical attachments for the ipod that use buttons for gaming and music and whatnot so I'm pretty sure getting the keyboard and d-pads and junk to work won't be impossible. The video and wifi and whatnot might be another story. Seeing how alot of the hackintosh projects for laptops seem to have at least some of these issues that haven't been worked out (certain wifi adapters) as of yet, i can see where some speed bumps might come in.

I'm going to list some pros and cons that I see

+polished fast os
+app store
+itunes integration
+large community of programmers already in place
+official SDK with api's and all that jazz already
+working polished emulators (snes works wonderfully already)
+working polished 3d games besides quake
+iphone os is teh smex

-the irony of jail breaking an open device
-will split community a bit instead of everyone working just on linux
-iphone os wants to use portrait by default and some apps don't have landscape mode (losing that polished feel)
-hardware & drivers might be a (huge) challenge
-go against everything OP stands for (being open source)
-apple fails

edit: forgot they made an amd version of the hackntosh as well futher supporting the ability that it could be ported

 

[Dauric]

as of yet, i can see where some speed bumps might come in.

The compatibility problem is the other way. Pandora doesn't support dual-touch or accelerometer data. You're looking at (2D screenx2, 3D rotation, 3D motion) about 10 axis of inputs that the Pandora has to emulate with 6 axis worth of inputs (2d screen, 2D nub x2). Again; it's possible to remap the inputs and have shift buttons and everything else, but even with a perfect implementation the inputs are different enough that it becomes a chore to use them.

 

[SNESFAN]

@Dauric
I'm not looking for a 100% either way, I'm very happy with my hackntosh, it's not a perfect fit, mouse buttons, different keys on keyboard etc... but the interface is what I'm sold on

I understand the ability to tilt and/or shake the device for functionality will be gone. From my experience that ability is just another feature on the ipod/iphone rather than the main method of execution if you know what I mean (minus certian games that are designed around this feature)... sorta like how you can navigate in windows etc without a mouse (kinda extreme example i know but you get the idea) also the multitouch, nothing that I know of, off the top of my head, actually "requires" using that, it will still have single touch hopefully as that would def be a deal breaker.

 

[danielliu88888]

ya know, this really isn't that horrible of an idea, the panda is open so obviously you can put whatever os on it you want. I for one would love to have the option to run the iphone os, it's very polished, fast and user friendly. Takes everything I like about the ipod/iphone, and then gives it controls other than the touch screen, which imo was it's one and only downfall. If it is possible to port osx to an intel & amd based non apple pc, i'm sure with very similar hardware that the iphone os could be ported to pandora. As far as the reaction from apple will probably be as weak as the hackntosh, and hell if you're buying apps from their app store with it... they might not totally hate the idea as they get a fairly large chunk of each lisence sold from there.

I've seen physical attachments for the ipod that use buttons for gaming and music and whatnot so I'm pretty sure getting the keyboard and d-pads and junk to work won't be impossible. The video and wifi and whatnot might be another story. Seeing how alot of the hackintosh projects for laptops seem to have at least some of these issues that haven't been worked out (certain wifi adapters) as of yet, i can see where some speed bumps might come in.

I'm going to list some pros and cons that I see

+polished fast os
+app store
+itunes integration
+large community of programmers already in place
+official SDK with api's and all that jazz already
+working polished emulators (snes works wonderfully already)
+working polished 3d games besides quake
+iphone os is teh smex

-the irony of jail breaking an open device
-will split community a bit instead of everyone working just on linux
-iphone os wants to use portrait by default and some apps don't have landscape mode (losing that polished feel)
-hardware & drivers might be a (huge) challenge
-go against everything OP stands for (being open source)
-apple fails

edit: forgot they made an amd version of the hackntosh as well futher supporting the ability that it could be ported

what's the advantage of running the iphone's os? wasting all the time and effort ED and crew put into angstrom? (i'm not saying don't use ubuntu or something, just don't downgrade). we don't need an app store, and most of them aren't worthwhile getting. working polished emulators? those were made by the same people on this forum. working polished 3d games? sorry, but most of the 3d games on the iphone aren't worth getting too. iphone OS is not "teh smex". really, it's just a bunch of eye candy.

EDIT: palm pre owns iphone.

 

[SNESFAN]

@Xian Long
The eye candy *IS* the whole advantage, for me haveing a very pretty interface to ohh and ahh about is what it's all about, i run different boxes for different reasons and have them parsed out through my house and work. My living room netbook for example is running moblin2 just for net browsing and crap, looks pretty, not very customiseable and it does what I need it to do. My bedroom computers are my powerhouse, some running vm's of alot of os's and some media servers, doesn't look pretty but it does what I need it for.

am I personally going to be useing the panda for anything other than games and very occasional internet browsing? Nope, just really looking for something that looks sexy and does what I personally want it to do. Am I saying what Ed is doing is garbage? Not at all, and if I wanted I can go back to his OS I can, that's the joy of hacking. If I could dual boot I'd love that even more, just like my dell has a media home button, if all I'm diong is watching movies or playing music, I don't have to use all the gizmos and gadgets and power it's capable of, but for it's purpose it's functional and looks sexy.

And that's what it's all about for me, is it putting tutu on a pitbull and breaking a couple of it's legs? Yes.... but is it a cute pitbull? Yes he is... oh yes he is! *smootches* musha musha musha

 

[danielliu88888]

@Xian Long
The eye candy *IS* the whole advantage, for me haveing a very pretty interface to ohh and ahh about is what it's all about, i run different boxes for different reasons and have them parsed out through my house and work. My living room netbook for example is running moblin2 just for net browsing and crap, looks pretty, not very customiseable and it does what I need it to do. My bedroom computers are my powerhouse, some running vm's of alot of os's and some media servers, doesn't look pretty but it does what I need it for.

am I personally going to be useing the panda for anything other than games and very occasional internet browsing? Nope, just really looking for something that looks sexy and does what I personally want it to do. Am I saying what Ed is doing is garbage? Not at all, and if I wanted I can go back to his OS I can, that's the joy of hacking. If I could dual boot I'd love that even more, just like my dell has a media home button, if all I'm diong is watching movies or playing music, I don't have to use all the gizmos and gadgets and power it's capable of, but for it's purpose it's functional and looks sexy.

And that's what it's all about for me, is it putting tutu on a pitbull and breaking a couple of it's legs? Yes.... but is it a cute pitbull? Yes he is... oh yes he is! *smootches* musha musha musha

do what you want. it's still pretty locked down and uncustomizable.

 

[SNESFAN]

do what you want. it's still pretty locked down and uncustomizable.

I'm just saying it's what I'd like to see happen, I have absolutely no means of doing it myself, programming and developing is definitely not my lane, end user experience and troubleshooting problems (just a glorified user) is what I'm good at, I'm just trying to rile some interest in the ones that have the means to do something like this.

 

[DisgruntleElf]

There is no doubt that most developers would rather be paid for their work then not. However asking for money and requiring it are quite different. There are non-free software that is being developed for the Pandora and free apps for the iPhone, but I still don't see how your original comment makes a case either way. If you are saying that open source devices are better because they are generally cheaper and you don't have to pay for applications and OS costs... ok. If you are saying they are worse because they just can't compete with the ".99 cent" apps that you can easily pay for and come with the assumption that they are "better", "have more support", or "have better QA" then I think you need to spend some more time in the open-source community. Free software doesn't equate to crappy software... in fact it "usually" is quite the opposite. I respect your difference in opinion.

OK. I haven't made my point clear. Now that the hardware playing field is equal does it pay to buy a Pandora and wait around for "free" apps or purchase an iPhone and pay the .99 cents price for software that is already available?
I would still like you to answer my questions. Would you purchase a Pandora if all the software available cost .99 cents or would you buy the new iPhone?
Do you buy open-source devices to get "free" software?
Associating "free" with open-source takes developers for granted. Many developers have bricked their units to bring those "free" apps to the community. There was a huge uproar a year ago when GPH included homebrew with their GP2X devices without the developers permission. They since have rectified it and paid to use them with the release of the WIZ. Craig included those "free" apps on the Pandora because he knows this is what the community wants and is needed to sell Pandora. I hope the developers of involved in those apps will be rewarded in the future. Is "free" the reason people are being drawn to open-source devices?

For a developer, even a closed source one, an open source device means being sure that you will be able to distribute and sell your work: after you've spent many hours of work on your next product, being told that you can't sell it because somebody in apple censoring department decided he doesn't like it is definitely not fun.

That's a valid point. I don't know what Apple QC is. I don't own a iPhone but I have heard complaints that there is a lot of crap for it though. I think there is so much competition out there that QC is thrown out the window.

 

[gruso]

OK. I haven't made my point clear. Now that the hardware playing field is equal does it pay to buy a Pandora and wait around for "free" apps or purchase an iPhone and pay the .99 cents price for software that is already available?

The hardware playing field isn't even just because the iPhone has a similar SoC. The devices aren't interchangeable at all. Read zodttd's blog entry on why emulation is faster on the GP2X than on the iPhone to find out why. Or ask Pickle if he reckons he could get Quake 3 to run at 30fps on the new iPhone.

Different devices, different game libraries, different communites, different everything. Are you trolling..?

For the record, I'd happily pay for every Pandora title.

 

[DisgruntleElf]

The hardware playing field isn't even just because the iPhone has a similar SoC. The devices aren't interchangeable at all. Read zodttd's blog entry on why emulation is faster on the GP2X than on the iPhone to find out why. Or ask Pickle if he reckons he could get Quake 3 to run at 30fps on the new iPhone.

Different devices, different game libraries, different communites, different everything. Are you trolling..?

For the record, I'd happily pay for every Pandora title.

I'm just going by the posted specs and sure there is some differences. If all you want is emulation then yes you are better off with a Pandora. That's what it was primary built in mind but not everybody is in it for primarly emulation.

It's good to hear that you're willing to pay for every Pandora title. Note to Pandora developers: be sure to include a fair price for your apps as Gruso is willing to pay you for every one.

 

[hedwards]

I thought that might be the case.
I wonder who thought making touching the visible area the only (almost"] viable input option was a good plan.

Tobs[/quote]Apple's been about making computers pretty for well over a decade and a half. No-button touchscreens are pretty in a ST:TNG kind of way, though the functionality of putting your fingers on top of the image that is displaying the thing shooting at you is questionable, as well as constantly wiping fingerprints on and off the screen, etc. Every iPhone should have an internal bottle of cleaning fluid and screen-wiper blades.

iPods aside, Apple tends to make pretty good hardware. I'd be concerned though with the way that they're handling the app store. It is in my opinion completely ridiculous that the abilty to access adult content is sufficient to get an app banned, not just if it's designed specifically to do so.

That being said, when my sister-in-law showed me her iPhone listing the bus arrival times for her stop, I was more than a little bit jealous.

 

[danielliu88888]

I thought that might be the case.
I wonder who thought making touching the visible area the only (almost"] viable input option was a good plan.

Tobs

Apple's been about making computers pretty for well over a decade and a half. No-button touchscreens are pretty in a ST:TNG kind of way, though the functionality of putting your fingers on top of the image that is displaying the thing shooting at you is questionable, as well as constantly wiping fingerprints on and off the screen, etc. Every iPhone should have an internal bottle of cleaning fluid and screen-wiper blades.[/quote]iPods aside, Apple tends to make pretty good hardware. I'd be concerned though with the way that they're handling the app store. It is in my opinion completely ridiculous that the abilty to access adult content is sufficient to get an app banned, not just if it's designed specifically to do so.

That being said, when my sister-in-law showed me her iPhone listing the bus arrival times for her stop, I was more than a little bit jealous.

i'd bet if you dropped a pandora on an iphone it would break .

EDIT: oh, i'm sure you can get adult content from bus listings... somehow...

 

[gruso]

I'm just going by the posted specs and sure there is some differences. If all you want is emulation then yes you are better off with a Pandora. That's what it was primary built in mind but not everybody is in it for primarly emulation.

It's good to hear that you're willing to pay for every Pandora title. Note to Pandora developers: be sure to include a fair price for your apps as Gruso is willing to pay you for every one.
Yep, you're just trolling. Carry on. :rolleyes:

 

[danielliu88888]

I'm just going by the posted specs and sure there is some differences. If all you want is emulation then yes you are better off with a Pandora. That's what it was primary built in mind but not everybody is in it for primarly emulation.

It's good to hear that you're willing to pay for every Pandora title. Note to Pandora developers: be sure to include a fair price for your apps as Gruso is willing to pay you for every one.
Yep, you're just trolling. Carry on. :rolleyes:

just as a note, he probably thinks you're trolling because you think the pandora is only for emulation... like any other psp fanboy.

 

[SNESFAN]

the hardware iphone/ipod isn't the greatest, the os has alot of overhead, cripples what the hardware is capable of. But.... you have to admit it's got a good look and feel to all of it, regardless of how much we all hate apple and their business choices, their developers really do accommodate to their end user experience and if you've ever actually *used* an ipod touch/iphone (behind closed doors of course to not look sold out in public) you'd probably agree, it's pretty nice.

 

[Nova]

Well, I for one will be getting the new iPhone 3GS when it's out. I love the fact that for me, it does everything I want from a mobile device, Phonecalls, SMS and IM and obviously Internet and Music, where it most succeeds. You can try and feed me some bullshit about the crap camera and the fact that everybody owns one. But if I bought a phone with a really good camera, it would make my recent digital camera purchase seem a bit moot. Plus 3mp is a good enough camera to take quick snaps, on the odd occasion that a giant monster takes over manhattan and i forgot my Canon. If I'm ever in manhattan.

So for me, it's a definite convenience thing. As I grow older, I find myself with less and less time for games, which is rediculously sad, but I don't mind too much. All the other things I require could also be offered by the Pandora, but I don't get a Panda free from my cell phone provider.

Oh, and I would have got a Pre, but I've found that 8GB doesn't quite cover my music storage needs, which is really unfortunate.

 

[DisgruntleElf]

I'm just going by the posted specs and sure there is some differences. If all you want is emulation then yes you are better off with a Pandora. That's what it was primary built in mind but not everybody is in it for primarly emulation.

It's good to hear that you're willing to pay for every Pandora title. Note to Pandora developers: be sure to include a fair price for your apps as Gruso is willing to pay you for every one.
Yep, you're just trolling. Carry on. :rolleyes:

just as a note, he probably thinks you're trolling because you think the pandora is only for emulation... like any other psp fanboy.

Actually I didn't suggest that he did. His argument centred on Pandora vs iPhone emulation. For the record I don't own a PSP. I think it has to do with me challenging him to putting his money where his Pandora software is. When push comes to shove many don't follow through.

 

[viridior]

I'm just going by the posted specs and sure there is some differences. If all you want is emulation then yes you are better off with a Pandora. That's what it was primary built in mind but not everybody is in it for primarly emulation.

It's good to hear that you're willing to pay for every Pandora title. Note to Pandora developers: be sure to include a fair price for your apps as Gruso is willing to pay you for every one.
Yep, you're just trolling. Carry on. :rolleyes:

just as a note, he probably thinks you're trolling because you think the pandora is only for emulation... like any other psp fanboy.

Actually I didn't suggest that he did. His argument centred on Pandora vs iPhone emulation. For the record I don't own a PSP. I think it has to do with me challenging him to putting his money where his Pandora software is. When push comes to shove many don't follow through.

I think the disconnect is some of your assumptions. It appears from some of your previous posts that the pandora is only going to be released with a few apps and emulators and everything is going to be slowly ported over as interest dictates. From an normal embedded platform this is probably a fair assumption. However since the hardware is open, and the software is open, and using a standard linux distro (which means you don't need to hack the platform and have no fear of bricking) then all of the software that has been previously generated for the beagleboard, gumstix overo, and/or have open source code in general will be immediately available. This is a huge repository. Much, much bigger then anything Apple, or Google, or Palm has. To give you an idea from the 'official' OS (although not all inclusive and I'm working an a different linux OS which has a compareable library size):
http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/

 

[gruso]

Elf: I only mentioned emulation because zod has a really good article on it, which explains the differences in utilising the hardware on the GP2X and the iPhone. I also mentioned Quake 3. They're just two common reference points, nothing more.

I don't expect you to know the life story of everyone on these boards, but if you knew mine, you'd know just how much I support our homebrew devs and the community in general. I've put my money (and time) where my mouth is, over and over again, and always will.