New Iphone 3g S Has Same Hardware As Pandora

[murak]

I might be wrong but it seems that ARM Cortex 8 is in both devices.

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3579&p=1

Someone more tech savvy that can confirm?

 

[r00tw00t]

Who cares? <_<

 

[gruso]

Mildly interesting.

Also interesting is that the Pre is already being hacked courtesy of a "leaked" WebOS root image.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/06/09/palms-w...s-reschedule-t/

It's worth following the links through to the forum discussion and browsing the 20+ pages. These guys are like kids at Christmas.

 

[viridior]

The CPU is based on the ARM11 core, in specific it is the ARM1176JZF-S. The CPU runs at 412MHz to save power, although the core is capable of running at 667MHz.

Core is different, speeds and capability are compareable, but not the same. Think Intel vs. AMD with similar performance (except you will have to recompile the ARM11 programs to run on ARM7 core and vice-versa). What will be the big difference between the two platforms is the software layer. iPhone will of course use Apple's locked-in phone/embedded device system and the Pandora is unlocked using a open linux distro. Basically you can install and utilize (free in both senses of the word) laptop/desktop type software on the Pandora and will be restricted to using Apple's PIM-type software on the iPhone. There is overlap and is not all inclusive but you get the idea.

Additional: the next page does a comparison of the Palm Pre which DOES use the same core as the Pandora and Beagleboard.

Final Edit: Although I am culpable for this error, I blame Anandtech for poor editorial work since it does not separate out very well whether they are talking about the original iPhone, iPhone 3G or iPhone 3GS. It appears that the iPhone 3GS DOES have a similar core (3430 which is like the 3530 used in the Pandora). It may be possible to using Apple's OS on the Pandora... Although you would have to figure out how to get the wifi, touchscreen, and a couple other hardware components driver's added.

 

[Tobs]

[isn't an expert]
Also seems like the iPhone 3GS is using a PowerVR SGX, though it's using the 520 whilst the Pandora uses the 530.
Looks quite a similar spec, with the Pandora just about faster going by hardware specs (I imagine we have more RAM too...)
Still, nothing beats the Pandora in features.

I'm interested in how controls will work out on the 3GS, not having physical buttons is a pain in the ass.

Tobs

 

[gruso]

I'm interested in how controls will work out
The answer

ass.
...is in the question. ^__^

 

[Tobs]

I thought that might be the case.
I wonder who thought making touching the visible area the only (almost) viable input option was a good plan.

Tobs

 

[DisgruntleElf]

When the end user only needs to pay .99 cents for apps and games it kinda puts to question the need for an open source device. To get any extra app for Pandora would require contributing to the Developers Fund and hoping they keep their word. In the end you always wind up paying for what you want.

 

[Dauric]

viable input option was a good plan.

Tobs

Apple's been about making computers pretty for well over a decade and a half. No-button touchscreens are pretty in a ST:TNG kind of way, though the functionality of putting your fingers on top of the image that is displaying the thing shooting at you is questionable, as well as constantly wiping fingerprints on and off the screen, etc. Every iPhone should have an internal bottle of cleaning fluid and screen-wiper blades.

 

[borgqueenx]

nice info. i'm in the iphone and pandora news scene, and didnt found this news on any iphone page yet.

Thanks

 

[God Ginrai]

Who cares? <_<

+1

-God Ginrai

 

[murak]

Thanks viridior, my main point of posting this was because of the possibillity to port software betwean the platforms. I thought that similar hardware would make it possible to run iPhone games on Pandora hardware. Though, I am not a programmer so I guese I should just wait and see =)

 

[viridior]

since they almost identical. However capable of being executing isn't the same as being useable. I'm sure iPhone's Apples OS will be very closed source. Therefore making it very difficult to add any kind of drivers or changing config files in order to allow useability on the pandora's keyboard, screen, wifi, etc. Maybe there are some smart guys out there that can hack something together.

QUOTE
When the end user only needs to pay .99 cents for apps and games it kinda puts to question the need for an open source device. To get any extra app for Pandora would require contributing to the Developers Fund and hoping they keep their word. In the end you always wind up paying for what you want.

DisgruntleElf: Last time I checked you can use a completely free (which is cheaper then $0.99 per app, plus the cost of the OS development that was included in your initial purchase) software OS and include a hugh repository of additional software for.... you guessed it free. If you want something created that hasn't already (other than games I'm not sure what this means) then you could pay someone to create it, or do it yourself because the tools are also..... free. I guess it would be better if you actually made a comment that was actually constructive/informative by letting us know what you have in mind.

 

[Dauric]

Had this topic come up on the other forums, I repeat my last post (and the last post of the entire thread) here:

---

While it's possible to technically remap the controls, it's something else to have -useable- controls. The challenge isn't to simply remap the inputs, but to have an interface that someone can react to as closely as possible the original setup. Most controller emulators work on the basic mechanic of the button, simply remap an "Insert" button to by your "Y" button and you've got your keyboard working as a Super Nintendo controller. A similar philosophy was applied to the "Nub Mouse" concept, however that has fallen out in favor of a touch-pad controller because a nub and a mouse have distinctly different 'feels'. Stylus input has more in common with mice than analog or digital directional controls.

The bulk of the difference has to do with how the brain reacts to the controller device. With analog inputs we have to think about moving "Up" or "Right" to the desired destination, and the input we impart to the device is "Up" or "Right" until we reach the destination. With a mouse or a stylus we rely on the autonomic functions to take care of the details of direction, our brains simply focus on "Go there" and our hand is guided by the biomechanics of our nervous system to the desired destination. In the case of the mouse we transpose our hand's location on the table to the location of the cursor on the screen, bio-feedback takes care of the rest.

(Man, it's weird to use a mouse when you're thinking about it...)

When you use a directional control to substitute for a direct pointer like a mouse or a stylus, you're bypassing the part of the nervous system that, when you go to reach for a glass of water, performs the precise movements of up/down/side-to-side/rotation, relax and contract of the hand, that we often take for granted. Instead the control that you need to consciously input to the device (through the analog nubs) is the raw-directional data.

Now it's possible to adapt to the new control schema, however it will take time and it will be more effort on the part of the user. A fun multi-touch game on the iPhone will be laborious to play on a Pandora using nubs simply because of the change in input and the need to consciously be aware of actions that they were doing on the multi-touch screen on a bio-mechanical level.

This assumes that you have an ideal controller setup for the inputs. If the controller setup is awkward or burdensome in some way, like requiring three or four hands to accomplish (one nub for accelerometer, the other for one finger, the stylus for the other finger, function button to switch between angular and linear inputs on the accelerometer...) then the effect and the frustration becomes even more magnified.

If it was just a matter of buttons then remapping is simple. The Pandora is well equipped to handle game controller remapping, it's got a keyboard, no shortage of buttons. However accelerometer-equipped devices like the iPhone and the Wii use a completely different control schema that is based on natural biomechanical response rather than detail-driven commands.

Sure the iPhone inputs can be remapped, that's simple to do. It's how that remapping sits between the user's brain and the device that is where the control issue really lies.

 

[DisgruntleElf]

QUOTE
When the end user only needs to pay .99 cents for apps and games it kinda puts to question the need for an open source device. To get any extra app for Pandora would require contributing to the Developers Fund and hoping they keep their word. In the end you always wind up paying for what you want.

DisgruntleElf: Last time I checked you can use a completely free (which is cheaper then $0.99 per app, plus the cost of the OS development that was included in your initial purchase) software OS and include a hugh repository of additional software for.... you guessed it free. If you want something created that hasn't already (other than games I'm not sure what this means) then you could pay someone to create it, or do it yourself because the tools are also..... free. I guess it would be better if you actually made a comment that was actually constructive/informative by letting us know what you have in mind.


Actually the comment I made stressed the end-user not the developer. The majority of end-user are not developers. Many developers including the ones on this forum accept donations. They would like to paid for their work. Are you a developer or are you one of the many end users purchasing an open source device in hopes to get apps/emulators/games for as you say "free"? If every developer charged .99 cents or more for their software on Pandora would you buy an open source device or new iPhone?

 

[Wootson]

First of all, I have absolutely nothing with Apple. I used OS9 and OSX for some time at work, but I couldn't find my way with it. Overall I found the hardware way too expensive for what it delivers (especially considering gaming). I have grown up with Commodore, Amiga, DOS, and Windows, and was never a "fan" of Apple stuff. This is the main reason I would never buy something from Apple.

Secondly, I would never buy an iPhone. Not for calling people, and certainly not for gaming. My current phone is used mostly for waking me up in the morning. I don't play games on it, don't take pictures with it's so called super lens which is in fact really shitty compared to my photo camera, don't make videos with it for the same reason, and I only call someone if it's REALLY necessary. I only use it for calling other people, and wouldn't even care when I lost the damn thing I also need good controls, which aren't on the device. Tilting and other nonsense features are not for me. At last there is the overly popularity of the device, which I absolutely despise. When I hear people bragging about how awesome their iPhone is, I get chills. It is nothing special, and the new one is also nothing special. There are numerous other devices which do the same or more, for less. In my eyes the iPhone is just another hype-gadget which in about 10 to 20 years everyone will be ashamed off they had them. Just like those damn ugly 70's pants and hairstyles.

Everyone has one, so you need one too. Else you are no longer part of the social group.

I'm buying the Pandora because I believe in the project and there is NO other system out there that promises the same, let alone even does the same. I need a gaming device which I can also use for everyday things which you do with an OS with all the bells and whistles. And the Open Source aspect is the hammer that hits the nail.

The iPhone (in locked state) does not have the features which the Pandora will have, and even when it's unlocked you are still bound by certain limitations.

 

[Dauric]

I'll admit that I'm a longtime anti-fan of Apple, but then I remember going to college and using their expensive "Brand New" machines that were lesser beasts to my own brand-new Intel machine.

That said, I will note that Apple has made decent 'Consumer Electronics' devices, though for my dollar there's too much "Brand-Named pricetag" attached to them.

I have no interest in the iPhone. I don't use a phone that much to need more than the "Free" one that came with my cellular plan, and that one is a small folding-form one after the previous non-folding one kept dialing China through my belt case every time I would sit sown in a chair with armrests. In my day-to-day usage the iPhone's screen is too exposed and would be damaged (I know this from experience with my Palm devices). Yes there are cases to protect the iPhone, but most that do what I want make the device unwieldy as a phone.

The "Multi-Touch" feature might be interesting to play with, but I'll give developers a few more years with the technology to really figure out how to make it useful. On top of that I'd have to carry a bottle of lens cleaner to constantly wipe off the fingerprints. I play with accelerometers on my Wii, I think I'll give them some time to mature before I make accelerometers a deciding factor in any other devices. If I'm a passenger on a road trip (sometimes necessary for my line of work) accelerometers will pick up the "background noise" of bounces and curves in the road and interpret them as proper input.

I've yet to hear of any software that I feel is a "Must Play" on the iPhone that justifies getting one. Something like Mario Kart or Wii Fit has been for the Wii, or Final Fantasy VII was for my PSX.

On the Pandora side:

I need a device to consolidate my Palm and whichever portable game device I am carrying that day. Pandora provides that.

A portable with the same interface as a full-sized console controller is a big plus in my book. Single-touch stylus screens are sufficient for my purposes, and stylus means fewer fingerprints. With a variety of proven emulators, and an active and supportive community behind the device I'm not concerned for availability of software.

Many packages for software on the Pandora are identical to those on the PC. I can find my way around a web page the same as I would on a PC. I can take documents that I am working on directly from my home machine and edit them the same in OpenOffice on my Pandora. I can edit images with GIMP in the same formats. The open- format means that I do not have to restrict myself to an approved "App Store" but I can get my software from any site that makes their work available -Regardless Of The Cost-. I am not restricted to free software, but if it is available it is an option to me. I am not restricted to paid-for software, but if I feel the cost is worth what it does, it is an option for me. Closed-Source closes off your options.

I value a real tactile keyboard for typing, especially on "Thumb Board" scales.

The Folding case form-factor provides the screen and control protection that I need a portable device to have.


Now some people the iPhone may be exactly what they need. That's fine and they can find an Apple Store to fill those needs. It is not what I need, I need a device like the Pandora and that's why I'm here.

 

[viridior]

QUOTE
When the end user only needs to pay .99 cents for apps and games it kinda puts to question the need for an open source device. To get any extra app for Pandora would require contributing to the Developers Fund and hoping they keep their word. In the end you always wind up paying for what you want.

DisgruntleElf: Last time I checked you can use a completely free (which is cheaper then $0.99 per app, plus the cost of the OS development that was included in your initial purchase) software OS and include a hugh repository of additional software for.... you guessed it free. If you want something created that hasn't already (other than games I'm not sure what this means"] then you could pay someone to create it, or do it yourself because the tools are also..... free. I guess it would be better if you actually made a comment that was actually constructive/informative by letting us know what you have in mind.[/quote]Actually the comment I made stressed the end-user not the developer. The majority of end-user are not developers. Many developers including the ones on this forum accept donations. They would like to paid for their work. Are you a developer or are you one of the many end users purchasing an open source device in hopes to get apps/emulators/games for as you say "free"? If every developer charged .99 cents or more for their software on Pandora would you buy an open source device or new iPhone?


There is no doubt that most developers would rather be paid for their work then not. However asking for money and requiring it are quite different. There are non-free software that is being developed for the Pandora and free apps for the iPhone, but I still don't see how your original comment makes a case either way. If you are saying that open source devices are better because they are generally cheaper and you don't have to pay for applications and OS costs... ok. If you are saying they are worse because they just can't compete with the ".99 cent" apps that you can easily pay for and come with the assumption that they are "better", "have more support", or "have better QA" then I think you need to spend some more time in the open-source community. Free software doesn't equate to crappy software... in fact it "usually" is quite the opposite. I respect your difference in opinion.

 

[Orkie]

I respect your difference in opinion.

"I am just going to carry on being rude to you anyway."

 

[viridior]

I respect your difference in opinion.

"I am just going to carry on being rude to you anyway."

"Thanks for being an impartial moderator."

I actually was being sincere. Some people equate money amount to quality. And its probably true in most cases. I just don't believe it applies to software. And I do respect the difference in opinion. If you think I am being rude then I request that you re-read my posts. And I apologize if it still gives you that impression.