My New Computer From Newegg

[DavidBeoulve]

I have saved up and have $2,600 to spend. I basically want a rig that will handle everything Oblivion has to offer, my thinking being that A: I will enjoy that and B: it's a perfect acid test.

I need to make sure all of these parts work together. I don't think I've made any mistakes... also the CPU has no heatsink. I currently have a water cooler I'm not too keen on. Perhaps there's an alternative.

.NET, Photoshop, and everything I use to tinker for my GP2X will think it's standing on a slanted icerink.

Note: My question is more theoretical. I don't need a howto, I used to put computers together for a living. What I would like to know is what you might put into such a PC, or anyone who feels inclined to put forth their ideas.

CD/DVD Burners (RW Drives)
1 LITE-ON 16X DVD±R DVD Burner Black ATAPI/E-IDE Model SHW160P6S04 - Retail
Model #: SHW160P6S04
Item #: N82E16827106013
$36.99

ATX Computer Cases
1 ASUS VENTO 3600 Red Steel ATX Mid Tower Computer Case - Retail
Model #: VENTO 3600 RED
Item #: N82E16811173003
$124.99
This is a seriously large looking case. I first saw them in Law & Order and then in real life at a conference. Visually loud (not so acoustically) and superfly. I can fix the fan problem in the front by taking it out and putting more in.

Internal Hard Drives
1 Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 (Perpendicular Recording) ST3320620A 320GB 7200 RPM IDE Ultra ATA100 Hard Drive - OEM
Model #: ST3320620A
Item #: N82E16822148139
$104.99

AMD-compatible Motherboards
1 ASUS A8R32-MVP Deluxe Socket 939 ATI CrossFire Radeon XPRESS 3200 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail
Model #: A8R32-MVP Deluxe
Item #: N82E16813131004
$172.99

Video Cards
2 ATI 100-435801 Radeon X1900XT 512MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail
Model #: 100-435801
Item #: N82E16814195002
$399.99 x2 $799.98

Sound Cards
1 Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail
Model #: 70SB046000007
Item #: N82E16829102188
$121.99 -$10.00 Instant
$111.99

Power Supplies
1 iStarUSA TC-620PD3 ATX 12V V2.2 620W Power Supply - OEM
Model #: TC-620PD3
Item #: N82E16817147026
$169.99 -$30.00 Instant
$139.99
Uhhh - what power supply would you use?

Speakers
1 Creative Inspire 5800 72 Watts 5.1 Speaker - Retail
Model #: 51MF4050AA001
Item #: N82E16836116151
$69.99

Fans, Heatsinks (Case, CPU, Chipset)
1 Thermaltake X-blower A1869 80mm 2 Ball 2 Channel VR Fan Kit with Dual Fan Speed Control Panel - Retail
Model #: X-blower 1869
Item #: N82E16811999118
$13.99
Not sure if I'll get this or just more of the fans just below.

2 Thermaltake A2016 80mm 1 Ball, 1 Sleeve Blue LED Light Case Cooling Fan - Retail
Model #: A2016
Item #: N82E16811999120
$13.99 x2 $27.98

1 KINGWIN Aquastar AS-3000 Multi-Color LED Light AquaStar Liquid Cooler System - Retail
Model #: AS-3000
Item #: N82E16835124007
$128.99 -$30.00 Instant
$98.99
This item isn't the cooling system I need. I don't have a CPU cooler in this list, without it, but this watercooler only cools 1 cpu and 1 gpu, and I have two ATI X1900 XTX's crossfired together in this setup.

Memory - System
2 Kingston HyperX 1GB 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 400 (PC 3200) Unbuffered System Memory Model KHX3200A/1G - Retail
Model #: KHX3200A/1G
Item #: N82E16820134040
$213.54

Processors
1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800BVBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA3800BVBOX
Item #: N82E16819103562
$297.00

Subtotal: $2,213.41
Shipping: $66.52
Total: $2,279.93

Any suggestions are greatly appreciated, guys.

 

[pantera6]

Im sure there must be a building computors for dummies.
(not saying you dumb lol) i just find they can be very helpful books, and can help you more than a few posts on the internet

 

[DavidBeoulve]

My question is more theoretical. I don't need a howto, I used to put computers together for a living. What I would like to know is what you might put into such a PC, or anyone who feels inclined to put forth their ideas.

Back in the Y2K scare, I built from new parts or rebuilt from old and new parts over 50 computers for Energizer Power Labs as part of a contract the computer network company I worked for had.

My problem is mainly understanding voltage and timing issues that we just didn't have to deal with back then. I've mounted modern CPU's and applied its heatsink and fan once with a friend several years ago, and again on a GPU that needed a fan replacement. I can do so again with the same friend.

Howtos are not the issue.

 

[Shikaku]

Salvaging:

What parts do you have now? Are you willing to part with your old computer? How much about computer parts do you know?

If you do not know that much about putting a computer together, ask a friend that does, AND ASK HIM TO DO IT IN FRONT OF YOU. It is easy enough to be able to just watch and learn instantly, but not that easy to figure out on your own.

Do you have a computer that you can use parts from that you are willing to make useless with your new computer?

You can easily buy a new hard drive, yet it is possible to be able to keep your old one and still not have to format all of your information! Just go into Windows Setup and do a Repair when you have your new computer (you may have to reregister).

I would always buy a new Power Supply/Heatsink/Fan with a new computer. Make sure you buy a HEATSINK FAN FOR THE CPU. You need one, and I have no idea which one you should buy, but you should buy one along with some silver for the best cooling. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16835106075 Here is an example.

Buy this model of DVD writer, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16827106019 I would burn the $3 for this and buy a later model, because it gives better burning features with the newest firmware. Always get the latest firmware with a writer. Latest firmware right here for Lite-On: http://us.liteonit.com/us/

Don't know about the power supply... To me it looks like it will be fine, but don't take my word for it.

RAM/Motherboard/Everything else looks good..

Edit:

Err... I didn't notice your second post until after I wrote it, too arsed to fix.

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Salvaging:
What parts do you have now? Are you willing to part with your old computer? How much about computer parts do you know?

Lots on the first and last question. No on the middle question - it will become my wife's PC.

If you do not know that much about putting a computer together, ask a friend that does, AND ASK HIM TO DO IT IN FRONT OF YOU. It is easy enough to be able to just watch and learn instantly, but not that easy to figure out on your own.

*chuckles*

Do you have a computer that you can use parts from that you are willing to make useless with your new computer?

It's 4 years old. The two 80GB hard drives are old. The DVD ROM is old. The CDRW doesn't work. What I am keeping off of it is its black 21" Hitachi Perfect Flat CRT.

You can easily buy a new hard drive, yet it is possible to be able to keep your old one and still not have to format all of your information! Just go into Windows Setup and do a Repair when you have your new computer (you may have to reregister).

Yep yep. I have DVD's upon DVD's of my downloads, files, artwork, game saves, etcetera.

I would always buy a new Power Supply/Heatsink/Fan with a new computer. Make sure you buy a HEATSINK FAN FOR THE CPU. You need one, and I have no idea which one you should buy, but you should buy one along with some silver for the best cooling. http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16835106075 Here is an example.

Oooh, thanks!

Buy this model of DVD writer at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16827106019 I would burn the $3 for this and buy a later model, because it gives better burning features with the newest firmware. Always get the latest firmware with a writer. Latest firmware right here for Lite-On: http://us.liteonit.com/us/

Yummy! I love Lite-Ons.

Don't know about the power supply... To me it looks like it will be fine, but don't take my word for it.
RAM/Motherboard/Everything else looks good..
Edit:
Err... I didn't notice your second post until after I wrote it, too arsed to fix.

*chuckles*

Well I'm going to go look at your links!

 

[Wite_Noiz]

also the CPU has no heatsink

Eh?

Processors
1 AMD Athlon 64 X2 3800+ Manchester 2000MHz HT Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA3800BVBOX - Retail
Model #: ADA3800BVBOX
Item #: N82E16819103562
$297.00

That /definitely/ has a heatsink, if you're sure it's the "Retail" version (ADA3800BVBOX, as you say).

I've found the stock heatsink/fan to be fine for a typical set-up.
I never really had the desire to overclock my comp. so can't speak about how far it can be pushed (wouldn't have thought far).

Everything else is subjective. I'm a Gigabyte mobo fan and prefer nVidia after some terrible experience with ATI drivers and software. But everyone's different.

 

[DavidBeoulve]

Regarding heatsinks, I found a Socket 939 one from ASUS, since the mobo, case & maybe a few other things all come from ASUS, I went with MORE asus gear

That /definitely/ has a heatsink, if you're sure it's the "Retail" version (ADA3800BVBOX, as you say).

I've found the stock heatsink/fan to be fine for a typical set-up.
I never really had the desire to overclock my comp. so can't speak about how far it can be pushed (wouldn't have thought far).

Oh. Duh. Hmm.

Everything else is subjective. I'm a Gigabyte mobo fan and prefer nVidia after some terrible experience with ATI drivers and software. But everyone's different.

*chuckles* My 4yo system has a Gigabyte board. I've read that ASUS is king of Crossfire Mobos, though.

I've also read that ATI runs Oblivion better - the upper FPS is largely the same as Nvidia, but the lower range is much better on ATI cards than Nvidia cards. Perhaps ATI cards, seeing the impending chop-fest, madly toss out detail and scream "Ack! Quick! Get it done! Get it done!"? I have no idea - no hardware reviewers have given anything other than black box observations.

 

[Wite_Noiz]

Woah! Just realised you're buying a PATA HDD!
You want to go SATA II, man. It doesn't cost that much more per drive and your mobo looks to support it.

 

[Vollgasasi]

the system is very well balnaced. a bit of overclocking on the 3800+ and your fine. you could also wait for intel conroe prcessor but the a64 is good too.

what do you need the water cooler for? the gfx card? that's good as they should be the loudest components in your system.

as for cpu heatsink/fan: if your really willing to spend 40 bucks then you should get some zalman stuff. it's the best but not cheap. well this asus isn'teither so you should go with zalman.

what you could expand is ram. i mean 2gb is enough for now but your obviously planning for the future (x-fire) so 4 gigs should be even better.

....something else: for x-fire setup you'll need a master card and a normal x1900xt. it doesn't work with two normal xt's. and i think newegg has a 329 dollar x1900xt deal somewhere... but i'm from germany i'm not used to buying stuff at newegg so you gotta search for yourself

power supply is a bit expensive... could get a cheaper (and better) one i think


EDIT: and stick to ati for oblivion. it's faster and has better image quality AND support HDR+AA

 

[Wite_Noiz]

*chuckles* My 4yo system has a Gigabyte board. I've read that ASUS is king of Crossfire Mobos, though.

I've also read that ATI runs Oblivion better - the upper FPS is largely the same as Nvidia, but the lower range is much better on ATI cards than Nvidia cards. Perhaps ATI cards, seeing the impending chop-fest, madly toss out detail and scream "Ack! Quick! Get it done! Get it done!"? I have no idea - no hardware reviewers have given anything other than black box observations.

Can't really comment. I went from an X700Pro to 7800GTX.
I've never checked the FPS on my Oblivion, but it's never been jerky (except when my scheduled defragger kicked in in the background... humm...).

I was the same before I got mine, though. Couldn't find any good comparisons between ATI and nVidia, so just went with the one that hadn't caused headaches (*curses ATI Catalyst*)

As I said: It's subjective. I'd never tell anyone to take one over the other.

 

[iignotus]

I would go with nVidia for many reasons, mainly because of better performance on some games. Here is a very nice SLI-ready card, and it's much cheaper as well:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814143037
Those graphics cards can draw up to 100w each, so make sure that you buy at least a 550w PSU. Try to go for over 600w.

I may have simply missed it, but I didn't see any SLI architecture on that board, probably because of the ATI chipset. Here's an nForce NB/SB board compatible with SLI. It also has passive cooling to keep your system's temp down:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813131568
Now, someone listed space constraints on that motherboard. While it has builtin sound and networking, if you really need a PCI card slot and are worried about possible space constraints in SLI, you may want to go with this mobo (from ABIT). However, space seems to be at a premium on all SLI configurations:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16813127232

You want a case that "bold"? If you do, I'm not one to judge, but it's just very odd looking. If you like it, though, more power to you

With the savings you made on those video cards (if you choose to go with them; they're excellent), you could buy this faster processor if you want. No pressure, though, as the one you chose already will probably stand the test of time well enough:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16819103546

Now, that motherboard has plenty of SATA II ports; why would you buy a PATA hard drive? Stop living in the past Here is a great SATA II hard drive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16822144701
If you want a LOT of space, here's a slightly overpriced hard drive :
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16822148134

This seems a little strange... you're buying a 7.1 audio card but only a 5.1 speaker setup? You can have a 5.1 setup on either of those motherboards without a PCI card, and that 5.1 speaker set you plan on getting is a very good one. That's what I would do. If you feel you need a PCI audio card, just get a 5.1ch one from creative.

I'm going to mull over the rest of your purchase with a keen eye and see if there's anything else that you should change. Let me know how you like my decisions.


EDITS:
For ram I would probably go with Corsair instead. Cheap:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820145486
Expensive:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16820145587
There's not much of a difference between the two other than flash (and the heat spreader).

 

[Wite_Noiz]

I agree with most of what Iignotus said.
Those are almost exactly the cards I have in SLi, and they rock and the X2 3800+ to 4400+ jump is massive when you start on load-intensive work (games, video encoding, etc).

However, I'm a big fan of having many smaller hard-drives over a few bigger ones.
My largest drive is 200GB, and I'm not sure I'd ever buy a larger one (until it's not possible to buy smaller ones). I see hard-drives fail a lot in my line of work.
When the moving parts are replaced with chips, then I'll begin to trust having a single massive drive

Of course, you could buy two 500GB and put them in RAID... that'd be less risky

 

[Vollgasasi]

i cannot agree with the above two guys because: 7800gt is pretty old and for that price you can get 7900gts which are a bit faster than 7800gtx and consume much less power and do overclock much farther.

if you go nvidia go for one 7950gx2. its an sli'ed card for one slot. two chips in one card. it performs like two 7900gts in sli and cost 390 dollars (i think) and you can oc this thing like mad.

but remember going nvidia means losing image quality. the gx2 is a great card nonetheless

EDIT: by chosing the gx2 which is slied you don't need an sli mainboard. only if you want to go quad sli in the future

 

[Wite_Noiz]

but remember going nvidia means losing image quality

In what sense?

 

[Vollgasasi]

angle dependant af, weak aa quality, no hdr+aa

 

[Wite_Noiz]

angle dependant af, weak aa quality, no hdr+aa

Do you know of any good sites that compare the two on the different technologies? I've looked so many times, but can never find anything.

On the HDR+AA side, I played a game recently that did both on my geforce and I thought "oh, how weird".
Can't remember what it was now, so I'll try to look when I get home.

Personally, I find it all a bit irrelevant. At a recent LAN party, I had my rig next to a guy with cross-fire playing FEAR, HL2 and we compared Oblivion, and I wouldn't have been able to tell who's was who's.
I'm sure future games will stretch my rig a make it show it's age later, but none of the current games are even beginning to do it.

 

[DavidBeoulve]

I've read Iggy's reply, it's super keen.
I found this article on ATI versus Nvidia with regards to Oblivion. Naturally, there are other games out there.

"The averages, and even the framerate-over-time charts, show somewhat different performance characteristics between Nvidia and ATI cards. In general, ATI's fastest card outpaces Nvidia's fastest card, but at lower price points, Nvidia's new GeForce 7 cards are a slightly better deal. We should mention that, while actually playing the game to record this data, we found that the ATI-based cards had more consistent performance, with fewer sharp increases and decreases in framerate. Nvidia-based cards, by contrast, seemed to run up to higher highs and lower lows. This gameplay perception is borne out by the framerate data. Again, we should remind you that we're using name-brand cards here, and in the case of our Nvidia-based hardware that means XFX's overclocked models. Similar cards that run at slower reference clock speeds wouldn't perform quite as well, but then again, they would cost less.

Despite the cards showing different statistics, the end effect to the user is similar. To play Oblivion with all the details cranked up to the max, either of the big $600 cards will work great. Either of the roughly $300 run the game very well at 1280x1024 and quite well indoors at 1600x1200, but might need to have a couple of the view distance sliders adjusted to improve outdoor performance. Finally, the cards costing in the low $200 price range don't have a hope of running the game well at 1600x1200, and even at 1280x1024 might need the game details turned down to boost performance for both indoor and, especially, outdoor scenes."

So... ATI versus Nvidia is similar... but not? Huh?

Jury is out on whether I'm going SLI or Crossfire.

I am aware of the HDR/AA issue. HDR + AF works fine in Nvidia, HDR+AA doesn't.
Until now, I've never had GPUs that allowed me to turn AA way up

 

[Vollgasasi]

ugh. there are so many comparisons and the difference is really obvious. it's not that the geforces picture looks ugly just when you played on an ati and switch to a geforce you really notice it (and vice versa)

the game you played with the hdr and aa on the geforce was probably a source engine game (hl2 based games) it does the hdr through pixel shaders and thats why it can do this 'fake' hdr with aa also on nvidia based cards. other games (like far-cry, splinter cellt, oblivion, etc.) use fp16 hdr which is incompatibe with geforces.

oblivion with quality mods stresses your system btw ;P oblivion wihtout mods looks like total crap.

EDIT: david with the xt's you will be able to play oblivion at 16x12 with aa. which is a big argument for atis cards. the high end geforces handle these hdr games equally well but with the loss of aa. the high end cards are meant to be played at high rez with aa. it progressed uite a bit since your last pc.

and don't go sli! if you go nvidia go geforce 7950gx2 with a non-sli mobo. its cheaper and performs like a 7900gt sli setup or oc'ed like a 7900gtx setup (so also like your x1900xt setup)

see also here: http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=5804 sorry just a quick google dunno if the review is that good. and if you go that way, go evga or xfx oc'ed models! evga has lifetime warranty btw.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?...N82E16814150160 they exist even cheaper and higher clocked.

 

[Wite_Noiz]

ugh. there are so many comparisons and the difference is really obvious. it's not that the geforces picture looks ugly just when you played on an ati and switch to a geforce you really notice it (and vice versa)

the game you played with the hdr and aa on the geforce was probably a source engine game (hl2 based games) it does the hdr through pixel shaders and thats why it can do this 'fake' hdr with aa also on nvidia based cards. other games (like far-cry, splinter cellt, oblivion, etc.) use fp16 hdr which is incompatibe with geforces.

oblivion with quality mods stresses your system btw ;P oblivion wihtout mods looks like total crap.

I'm not trying to advocate one or the other, but if ATI is as superior as you say, a) why is nvidia still in business and B) why are nvidia not copying ATI?

From the article David posted, I thought they made some good sense on the matter: Both types of card are trying to do different things. The ATIs slogged out a more even FPS while the nvidia's fluctuated depending on their use.
I don't know (or care, really) what they're doing differently or why.

I have to disagree about it being as obvious as you say. The difference between 50+ FPS readings is negligable - nobody can tell.
My SLI 7800GT's (or GTX's, can't remember) matched the other guy's cross-fire rig and neither of us noticed enough differences to care (except price - my cards are older and cheaper than his).

I've never been a bleeding-edge kind of guy, though.


After a re-read, this may sound kind of like an attack. It's not. This thread was about giving advice on computer hardware and I was trying to say that I doubt many people could tell the difference between a high-end ATI or nvidia rig.
In my experience, the ATI drivers and software were so terrible I was more than happy to move to nvidia.

 

[Vollgasasi]

nvidia is still in business because a) nvidia is a lot bigger than ati and B) i never said their products are worse it's just that ati has the tecnological edge over nvidia at the moment (not always speed wise but feature wise)

the geforce 6 and 7 series are great i have a 7800go gtx myself and yes above 40fps you don't notice the difference.

and i don't feel attacked we're just discussing and trying to help aren't we?