My journey into atheism and theories on life


Well if the Bible belt is giving you trouble, move to Vermont. It's an Atheist paradise.


We're the number one state in the US of people that report having no religion.


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreligion_in_the_United_States


Edit: Also another selling point, we have more craft breweries per capita than any other state..
I just found out yesterday that Tennessee has the highest crime rate and second largest concentration of meth addicts in the country. But that doesnt mean its bad. I know that post was well intentjoned but tou reallt have to live here to understand. I love my state and ti spite being politically and religiously un-related to everyone around me, it feel like home. Just make sure you sympathize with another before offering a solution. thats all
 
^ My post had no direct connection to your post outside that a few people pointing out woes of being in the bible belt.. I just like pointing out facts about my state.
 
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I would describe my experience with religion with a quote from George Carlin "Catholic — which I was until I reached the age of reason". :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RT6rL2UroE
George Carlin again succesful trying to amuse a poor educated audience without giving them anything to learn from it. :/

That must be why he says religion and means Christianity (maybe monotheism, if he knows the word). -.-°

Not every religion believes in a god at all and most religions seem to believe in several gods.

BTW: Even the ancient jews had several gods and JHWH with all his wrath, which later on also became the christian god, is just their last one.
 
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Also, I find it hard to rationilize some things .. if there is a creator, he doesn't care. Why are there birth defects? Little babies born with horrible problems -- they certainly did not sin to earn them. Why do murdered get away with things? They did sin, and often get away.
You cannot feel joy if haven't experienced pain. If you were to born and live in perfect world, you wouldnt be able to enjoy it.
If I would have a time machine I would travel back and rewrite some of these books like Bible, Torah and especialy the Quran. How funny it would be if then in the Quran is written that woman shall rule over men. :D
That wouldn't change the world a peny. The problem is not what in the book but how the preachers reads them. If you happen to read the Quran, you'll see that a significant part of the book is about women rights. See how that became in the mouths of some bad preachers.
How so? What is disrespectful about what I said?
At first I misread your post. Actually rereading my quote show how I was wrong. Sorry :(
 
That wouldn't change the world a peny. The problem is not what in the book but how the preachers reads them. If you happen to read the Quran, you'll see that a significant part of the book is about women rights. See how that became in the mouths of some bad preachers.
Prove it and try to read these in a nice way:

"Sura 2, Āya 190-193"


"Sura 2, Āya 216-217"


"Sura 3, Āya 86-91"


"Sura 4, Āya 89"


"Sura 5, Āya 38"


"Sura 8, Āya 12"


"Sura 8, Āya 17"


"Sura 9, Āya 5"


"Sura 9, Āya 14"


"Sura 9, Āya 29"


"Sura 9, Āya 111"


"Sura 9, Āya 113"


"Sura 16, Āya 10"


"Sura 17, Āya 33"


"Sura 24, Āya 2"


"Sura 24, Āya 62"


"Sura 33, Āya 61"


"Sura 40, Āya 10"


"Sura 41, Āya 24"


"Sura 44, Āya 16"


"Sura 47, Āya 4"


"Sura 48, Āya 20"


"Sura 48, Āya 29"


"Sura 60, Āya 1"


"Sura 61, Āya 4"


"Sura 61, Āya 9"


"Sura 98, Āya 6"

Regarding women:

"Sura 2, Āya 223"

"Sura 4, Āya 34"

Have you even read the Quran?

Nearly everyone that is defending Islam did not read it.
 
You said "bible belt giving you trouble" And I took that as slightly offensive
How can you construe anything I said in that sentence as offensive.. It was stated by the OP and yourself that it's difficult to live in a region of the country were religion is the norm and non-believers are facing hardships over it. I think you made more out of my post then there actually was.
 
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The term 'irrational' is loaded, I have learnt :)

Yes, religion is by definitionirrational; but the term irrational is generally used in a negative way. You're supposed to say religion is founded in _faith_, which is the 'nice way' of saying irrational ;)

jeff
 
An interesting, meaningful post; SNESFAN- and some very good points made.

Briefly put, my position is that although brought up in a Christian family, I never got pulled into faith.

My current position is that I see no reason to believe the teachings of the umpteen religions out there - and I don't.

Where peer-reviewed, evidence-based, logical science has something to say - I go with that.

Otherwise, I'm waiting and watching for a reasonable answer - if one ever comes along.

One point in the OP which struck me as one that applies to many, many areas of life is the "given that" logical statement:

chances are stacked largely against your favor 1:280,000,000 or something crazy like that. But for that winner, their chances of winning are 1:1 that's my point.
People ask "what are the chances of all this happening by accident?

They should ask, "given that all this happened, what are the chances that it happend by accident?" -  which is a very different question!

Google Sally Clarke for a very real example of the importance of "given that"
 
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George Carlin again succesful trying to amuse a poor educated audience without giving them anything to learn from it. :/

That must be why he says religion and means Christianity (maybe monotheism, if he knows the word). -.-°

Not every religion believes in a god at all and most religions seem to believe in several gods.

BTW: Even the ancient jews had several gods and JHWH with all his wrath, which later on also became the christian god, is just their last one.
I think I have watched every show Carlin ever gave and I have to disagree. He was a very smart and erudite man and if you listen to the video more carefully you will notice he is not saying religion = Christianity. He says that religion was responsible for Christianity. But even if he did... it is not a lecture, it is comedy / satire.


In his book "When Will Jesus Bring the Pork Chops?" he basically offends 3 religions with the title - and intended - so he wasn't attacking Christianity only.


In his shows he could be very offensive and rude / blunt but also quite skilful with words and clever thought experiments. I can understand people that don't like his style or feel offended but calling him dumb or ignorant isn't correct imo. 
 
Regarding women:

"Sura 2, Āya 223"

"Sura 4, Āya 34"

Have you even read the Quran?

Nearly everyone that is defending Islam did not read it.
So does those that fight it... Do you have read it yourself, or just rehashing muslim hate ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An-Nisa,_34

Yep, subject to interpretation... (and even if you interpret iḍribūhunna as "strike" that's a relative improvement to what was going on at the time of the writing)

PS: please dont make this thread a religion hate thread...
 
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Wow lots of feedback, thanks everyone that read and enjoyed, even if you don't agree, I feel my message came across clear. If you haven't read, you're not required to, and maybe there should be a spoiler in there to prevent those that don't want to necessarily know what I know but I think the title kinda indicates that maybe you shouldn't read if you're not securely seated in your belief structure. This is a hot button topic and I was always taught don't discuss subjects like religion and politics as it makes up a large portion of the moral fabric of people's lives and was said it's like kicking the chair out from someone's butt. So please even with replying to other people's beliefs, please respect that about them as well, even if you feel they are wrong.

I don't actually regret learning what I learned, and while ignorance is bliss, you can't go back to ignorance. Just like the matrix, getting plugged back in gives you a different perspective than when you were living inside it. The information while disturbing appears to be more truth than fiction, where the previous answer appears to be more fiction than truth. Not saying either one is absolute truth, but there's a portion of truth behind both answers. You just have to weigh the ratios and find the one that fits your life the best.

Say if you had a terminal disease, would you want to know? It doesn't change anything, but it's the truth. I don't know if I have one or not, and I very well might. But it wouldn't change the way I live at all at this point. The end result is the same. In fact believing that this life is the only chance I got to experience things make me want to wait less, and do more. So there is only benefit to come from it. It's unsettling, and some answers are, not all situations are wrapped up in a nice little package with a pretty bow on top. As is life, it doesn't always work out like it does in stories.

Science and religion aren't contradictory. The TL'DR version of my theories on life and religion can be summed up in; Science is answers to problems with solutions that can be reproduced. Religion is answers to problems with solutions that can not. Science does not contradict religion, the solutions to the answers may however. It's upon the individual to to find which solution makes more sense to them. Within science the answers are peer reviewed and disputed and evolve in time getting more refined as they become largely accepted with supporting information, that practice is also highly encouraged. Whereas religion the exact opposite is true, static word written in stone and fundamental dispute is shunned, or forced to branch off into their own sect, acceptance is based on popularity or other non-tangible qualities. That in it's self sets them vastly apart. Truth doesn't require acceptance to be true.
 
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It's funny where I am from I get lectured by atheists far more than I do by religions. They also probe you more about your faith as well and the thing that really gets me is the superiority complex quite a few of them have. Atheism is a religion in itself these days, for anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't seen the atheists churches popping up around the place.

I guess being agnostic both sides of the debate think they can convert you.  
 
^Atheist church!? how does that work?

I suppose there are Zealots on both sides.
 
There is this funny thing with people who believe in a deity. If other people are giving rationales for not believing that is often considered offending. Why is that?
If someone would try to convince another person the colour of the sky was red they would just laugh about it and just think 'the guy is crazy, I know the sky is blue'.
I think the offending part is that almost everyone that 'believes' is not a believer but a 'doubter' or maybe a better word is 'hoper'. They hope what they believe is true and anyone who tries to change their mind increases their already present feeling of anxiety.


I was a 'hoper' once and I can relate to the struggle of SNESFAN. Personally I am glad I am not a 'believer' any more. The doubt was always present at that time and the guilt that followed was killing me.

That said, the euphoric religious experience is amazing and I have never experienced feelings like that again :(

Probably need drugs now :)
 
 
I think that works both ways.

People who don't believe in a God and believe in Science/Evolution are insecure because they can't prove that what they believe is right either.  So they have a lot of anxiety also (see Snes not being able to sleep) and try to convince religious believers that they are wrong.

As mentioned let people believe what they want.  Neither can be proven or dis proven so why make it an issue. 
 
As mentioned let people believe what they want.  Neither can be proven or dis proven so why make it an issue. 
Because it already causes massive issues, if a believer has the "god given" (*sic*) opinion, that he and his fellow believers are per se better than people/creatures that believe different (or not at all if that is even possible),

Einstein mentioned this too in his letter which came up in this thread regarding Jewism, where the belief that you are "a chosen one" is quite fundamental. Monotheists tend to a severe superiority complex (which is psychologically neccessary as immunisation against natural doubts) for thousands of years now and we all know how dangerous this is and what it caused regularly. Of course I see similarities in some modern Atheists too.
 
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Of note is the current Pope  ... has noted that atheists get to go to heavan too :p (and gay people, I think.)

That was always a question I had ... so you were a baby dropped in a jungle and rasied by monkeys, you get to go to hell due to original sin.. through no fault of your own? Senseless :) So the new Pope has decided 'good people' get to go to heavan; being Christian is a bonus, but not the only path.

The new Pope is okay in my books ;)

jeff
 
I think that works both ways.

People who don't believe in a God and believe in Science/Evolution are insecure because they can't prove that what they believe is right either.  So they have a lot of anxiety also (see Snes not being able to sleep) and try to convince religious believers that they are wrong.

As mentioned let people believe what they want.  Neither can be proven or dis proven so why make it an issue. 

my anxiety wasn't that I was wrong, and need to convert anyone, that's not the case at all really. The anxiety is from the question if I had wasted my life up until this point and how precious and the time I have left is. The very grim idea that nobody is looking out for me like a guardian angel or other supernatural being and that I'm basically in this fight alone with the people I have around me.

The idea that "this is it, and the end is coming" regardless of if I want it to or not, it's just around every corner, and may or may not be within my own power.That every person that has ever lived and died has had the exact same experience, just different perceptions of the same situation. That was a very troubling thought for me that I didn't have to worry about with the safety net that after this is over, there is a better place to live for all eternity as long as I do good in this world, and if not there's a less than nice place to go to, but there's still a place. Seeing that there may not be a place at all. That's the anxiety.

Not that if I were right or wrong, I feel that conflict was already worked out in my mind. I'm comfortable being wrong, but what the consequence of if I'm right is what put terror in my mind for a long time. I do believe I'm finally over that though.

I'm not trying to "convert" anyone, it's rather more of a... "look at what I just saw" kind of thing. If you just built a new toy wouldn't you want to show it off? Kind of like that, you're not expecting them to want one, or be jealous because you have it, but you just want to show it off. That's what the point of this was. Not to convert those that still believe.
 
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I would sum it up as follows.  

Science has answers to questions that spawn new questions and thus never fully answers anything but merely gives you the false impression of an answer.

You could argue the same for religion if you analyzed it.

In that sense they share a common factor, both require faith to be believed.
 
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