My journey into atheism and theories on life

[Granitehead]

You want to read a bible with all possible translations? You would never finish it.

I've seen a very simple sentence having about 5 quite different meanings (she basically just came down from her ride, but the context was a bit different every time).

Imagine an (extremely boring and awful) book 5 times or more as large as a normal bible. Have fun!

You should rather read Daodejing (about 400 BC), Dhammapada (383 BC) and Lun-Yü (about 500 BC) instead, there is way more wisdom in these short texts, than in any large monotheistic brick ever written some centuries or even a millenium later, like Quran (632 AD).

True. Oh well, I guess I might just not read them after all. Would mostly be just to argue against Christians/Moslem better anyway, not for personal benefit.
I need to look at those texts you suggest, I'm always interested in broadening my horizon, thanks.

@hailrazer: WizardStan is right, though. You can find anything on the internet, what about looking up the definition in different biology text books? Feel free to quote different definitions (which are or were actually generally accepted by the scientific community) and it will be a pleasure to refute your claims.

I know I sometimes appear condescending, overly sure of myself or arrogant. I don't care. Way more important is this: I'll really consider everything you write, without prejudice, as good as I can. It is possible to change my opinion if you have good arguments. If you aren't able to reason rationally and defend your point in a way I'm able to understand, though, then, yes, I personally feel free to stick to my point that I'm right and you not.

 

[_wb_]

I wonder why christian fundamentalists always have problems with biology (in particular its foundation which is evolution), but not with all of the other sciences that conflict with a literal interpretation of the bible. At least that's the current situation -- astronomy and geology were once also popular targets, but nowadays even hard-core christians no longer claim that the earth is flat; some still maintain that it is only 5000 years old but they are also rather marginal compared to the total population of creationists.

All sciences tend to conflict somehow with a literal interpretation of the bible, and so do mathematics (the bible claims pi equals 3) and logic (plenty of logical contradictions in the bible). Why the focus on biology/evolution specifically?

Anyway, whenever religion fights with science, it always eventually loses. Too bad it usually takes decades or centuries of unnecessary propagation of ignorance before we arrive at that point.

 

[Klumpen]

Religion without ignorance and fanatism is just philosophy.

For me, true philosophy (old greek: philosophía - the love for wisdom, not waffle) is the highest form of spirituality.

 

[Exophase]

I wonder why christian fundamentalists always have problems with biology (in particular its foundation which is evolution), but not with all of the other sciences that conflict with a literal interpretation of the bible. At least that's the current situation -- astronomy and geology were once also popular targets, but nowadays even hard-core christians no longer claim that the earth is flat; some still maintain that it is only 5000 years old but they are also rather marginal compared to the total population of creationists.

All sciences tend to conflict somehow with a literal interpretation of the bible, and so do mathematics (the bible claims pi equals 3) and logic (plenty of logical contradictions in the bible). Why the focus on biology/evolution specifically?

Anyway, whenever religion fights with science, it always eventually loses. Too bad it usually takes decades or centuries of unnecessary propagation of ignorance before we arrive at that point.

It's pretty easy to view the references to a flat earth as figurative, I'm sure the phrase "four corners of the earth" has been used by people who are aware the earth is round, if one thing because it can be an allegory for maps which are flat and have corners. There's a part in the gospels where Satan shows Jesus all the kingdoms of the earth, but given that this involves some powerful magical creature it's probably not a big stretch to say that handwave away whatever they think was going on there. That and it's been known the earth is (roughly) a sphere for thousands of years and it's something that is both more directly observable and where denying it causes lots of problems for things pretty much everyone does.

That doesn't stop everyone though, I've spent some time on the Flat Earth Society forums, the mental gymnastics employed there (by a community I believe to contain both sincere believers and people who just like the debate challenge or like trolling or otherwise aren't sincere) are pretty amazing.

I think you're wrong that Young Earth Creationists are marginal among people who don't believe evolution happened. And they do still take issue with far more than biology, including astronomy/cosmology, geology, paleontology, among other things. Lots of stuff that shows the earth is old and went through a lot of natural events that didn't include a worldwide flood or don't fit with the Genesis creation narrative. One additional reason why they don't like common descent is because a big theme of various parts of the Bible (particularly shows up a lot in the New Testament) is that people die because they went against God, and that God can now offer them to live forever again - this doesn't really sit well with life coming about from a long progression of many generations adapting to their ecology with a lot of trial and error (and a ton of violence and death being essential to the system). It doesn't sit well with the idea that God specifically designed man to somehow directly take after God. These probably are more direct concepts than the nuanced issues with math and logic that are more open to interpretation.

 

[Klumpen]

@Exophase: The christian "base text" is just a collection of way older myths and since the "Epic of Gilgamesh"/"Noahs great flood"/"Deukalion-Myth" is quite popular in some cultures in that area, I think it's quite possible, that there has been some very great flood somewhere around Greece and Egypt a long time ago, but people tend to overemphasise such events to make an even bigger story out of it and some centuries/millenia later it transforms into some hokus pokus.

Maybe people will think magical things of ED, you or anybody else around here 2000 years from now.

(Craig would be a smooth kind of antagonist in that story.)

History is always distorted and used for various purposes, although mostly for power and possession.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/LQqq3e03EBQ?feature=oembed

 

[Granitehead]

+1 for the Life of Brian. :-D

 

[comradekingu]

Religion without ignorance and fanatism is just philosophy.

For me, true philosophy (old greek: philosophía - the love for wisdom, not waffle) is the highest form of spirituality.

But that waffle though.

 

[Garrett]

I would say I'm a resolute Agnostic (is that possible?) with antitheist leanings.. Church every week until the George Carlin quote & have been involved in one way or another with various flavors of belief over the years.. the Jury is most certainly still out for me.

If you've got the time & inclination some of the Christopher Hitchens vs various Religious Intellectuals are fascinating to watch..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH68Y5MUGfo

https://www.youtube.com/embed/2kZRAOXEFPI?feature=oembed

 

[Klumpen]

Nice statistics and quotes:

http://www.religico.com/2009/12/17/who-killed-more-people-in-the-bible-god-or-satan/

 

[Null]

 

[thatgui]

 

[Saber]

^ one of the my favorites. That and the one with the guy yelling in the crowd about the vampires being everywhere with the mirror in the background showing only his reflection.

The discussion.

Religion to me, in spite of all it's many forms, derivations and pomp, is rooted in that singular timeless fear of what happens to oneself after they die. Perhaps the fleeting length of a precious human lifetime has something to do with it's propagation. You could almost say the religious define their very outlook of existence not by a life lived, but by the eventuality of it's dying.

 

[SNESFAN]

I find it quite curious that the main times you hear people get the most religious are when their own mortality or trying to rationalize losing a loved one. I can see how it can be quite useful for coping. And that was the single hardest thing to come to terms with, but after, it made me enjoy my life more than before. I could relate it to a near death experience I suppose.


One thing I find is extremely difficult is deciding on where I stand in terms of controversial issues of things like abortion and gay marriage. The more I look at society the more I question the rational behind some of our laws and policies. Some of the reasons they are so controversial is because they go against other peoples religious belief, and gets more complicated when 2 religious beliefs conflict on the issue, and then even further when you separate church and state.

 

[rygD]

Maybe it is different where I am, because people here start throwing their religion around when they find out that some people have different opinions than they do.  This is related to a variety of things ranging from what to eat to who you can have sex with, and much more.  I rarely hear people talk about death here.  When I or others do bring it up it is handled a bit like a taboo subject (if it is a friend or family member)...they try to talk it down and change the subject while stating that their god and church are there for you.  Some of those who have been around for 8 decades or so seem to pick up on how it is all bullshit, especially anyone being there for you, and just a way to try controlling the opinions and actions of others.  Related, and of further interest, is stuff that 15 or 20 years ago caused many a physical altercation for myself and others, such as specific games that were called "Satanic" and such (think Doom, but many others also) which are considered acceptable now.  I have witnessed someone that told me he wishes to become a youth pastor playing these games.  

As mentioned here already, these people do love to pick and choose what they adhere to from their books, which they also try to shove down the throats of others, even if they are just a different denomination.  It is not uncommon for them to be fully unaware of the meaning of certain things that they have read, and to come up with some crazy explanation for something that should be rather simple and straightforward.  I could go on, but really this shit bothers me, and I have to deal with it frequently enough that I don't feel like bringing it here.

 

[Null]

 

[Klumpen]

 

[dracmas]

God said ,"Let there be light." And there was light.

Boom.

Civilization version 0.1 alpha 19.

New game requires another big bang.

(1: continue? 2: new game? 3: quit?)

 

[klapse]

Amusing you can say anything you want about classical religions on this forum, but you can't question the new religion of anthropogenic global warming.

 

[JDTAY]

Amusing you can say anything you want about classical religions on this forum, but you can't question the new religion of anthropogenic global warming.

I bet Al Gore is using his lich mind powers to control the staff here.

 

[Binky]

I bet Al Gore is using his lich mind powers to control the staff here.

I must take this opportunity to reassure everyone that rumours of the long-range psychomanipulative beam generator based in area 51 for the last 24 years contain no truth whatsoever.

Thank you.