Moblin


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Hm, sorry, misunderstood your intents completely (hey, I'm not a native English speaker either) but I must say that the original post left out much to interpretation.

BTW: I still don't understand, why would this be a FUD-tool? Until now, Intel has competed fair and square, and there hasn't been any propaganda.
 
Moblin sounds like a crock o' shit to me.
 
darkborn said:
Thanks, seems that you understand it well. OK, I'll have to explain a little bit more:
ARM based devices are preferable because they
  • use much more less power, and as a consequence
  • could work "whole" day (8-12h) - like e.g. cell phones
  • do not produce heat, so
  • don't need fan, so
  • could be much thinner, and
  • could be light weight, and with all of that
  • are almost half price then ATOM counterpart
et cetera
Click to expand...

I think you have some misconceptions. Atom devices don't need fans and are on pretty low processes so the CHIP size is hardly a consideration. Have you ever seen a Fujitsu Lifebook U820? It's very small.

I don't know which price you're referring to there, the cost of the CPU itself or complete devices? Because many netbooks can be had for only $300 and you'll be hard pressed to find ARM variants that are cheaper. Atom CPUs may be relatively costly in retail but they were really never meant to be much of a retail chip. On the other hand, you can buy Atom barebone systems for less than it costs to buy a Beagleboard.

Power consumption is really the number one advantage of ARM devices, but you forgot a major disadvantage, which is that currently no ARM handheld offers competitive performance with a high end Atom one. Clock for clock the performance is probably not far off, but Atoms can clock a good 3x higher.

darkborn said:
Ok, maybe the title of topic should be THE WORST ALTERNATIVE OS CHOICE FOR PANDORA. And some pool.
Click to expand...

But you didn't give any reasons for why Moblin is bad for Pandora, only reasons why it's bad for x86 devices.

darkborn said:
It is in Pandora section because I found too much efforts to bring Moblin to Pandora, probably instead some other OS/platform (Android, Maemo, WebOS, or some more "classic" Linux distro).
Click to expand...

Who is making these efforts? And Pandora already has a "classic" Linux distro (Angstrom).

darkborn said:
I don't think it is just a matter of free will. IMO, main goal of Intels efforts at Moblin is to slow down Android, so that Intel (and probably other players) have enough time to prepare some kind of answer (Windows 7?) against ARM.
Question is: Why should Intel "attack" Windows with Moblin Linux, at its own monopol (ATOM x86) hardware ecosystem - Windows as its only advantage against ARM?
Are those reliable efforts, and do we need it at Pandora? I don't want situation when people thinking about "Pandora", and first word that comes to their mind should be "Trojan horse". Maybe mythical, but not correct.
Click to expand...

Okay, so your reasons for disliking Moblin are purely political then?
 
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This is "Open" Pandora. The OS it comes with is just the default OS, you can install and do what the heck you want with the device.

Popular choices aren't right for everyone, unpopular choices aren't right for everyone.
 
lulzfish said:
No wonder I hadn't seen this thread before, it was over a year old. >_>
Click to expand...

Same here.. That was a really lame move of him..

Can these threads be merged and then locked..? There isn't a reason for these threads to be active. It has already been said that it is for x86, the Pandora uses ARM.
 
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lulzfish said:
No wonder I hadn't seen this thread before, it was over a year old. >_>
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Woah! I wasn't even born back then when this thread was created!

(dflemstr suffers from an illness known as forumania, an illness that makes a person think his/her entire life takes place in an online forum)

Obvious troll attempt is obvious

Now close this thread already ;)
 
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dflemstr said:
why would this be a FUD-tool? Until now, Intel has competed fair and square, and there hasn't been any propaganda.
Click to expand...
It is "Uncertainty" factor of "Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt" (FUD) strategy. If producer/consumer can't recognise OS and/or platform, like "This is all netbook, this is all Linux", half job is done.

But Intel has not to be (strictly) unfair. If they spend few millions to Moblin (through Linux Foundation*) just to slow down development of Android, they will buy lifetime for dying Atom platform**. Time = money. I admit that this is good move for Intel, just - not for everybody else.
*"Intel will maintain strong control over the software since it employs the top Moblin developers." From same text: "While Google’s Android and Canonical’s Ubuntu receive far more attention, Moblin should have a strong showing at the Computex trade show this June in Taipei." Well, you know what was hit at Taipei - Inventec's Moblin-phone? Nope. Great stars were ARM smartbooks and Android. (Slashdot report here)
** "ARM to surpass Atom by 2012" (and Moblin probably)

Let's see how frankly they are with Moblin:
  • It is easy portable to ARM platform, just... Moblin is not compatible with AMD CPUs, because "Moblin is heavily optimized for Intel Atom CPUs"?? So much about compatibility. And ARM portability.
  • Intel also announced cooperation with Nokia, even that they compete each other - e.g. Moblin vs Maemo or Atom Netbook vs Nokia N810 Internet Tablet. And even worse: Nokia will support Moblin (?) instead ("own") Symbian community (!) - just to opposite Android. I don't believe in such a suicide moves... "They will be partners at Moblin, but maybe not on Atom" :D
  • Moblin 2 will be built with Nokia's "Maemo graphical environment" ("GNOME Mobile") instead e.g. Android. Great; just one thing: Nokia is one of almost rare companies that is NOT member of Open Handset Alliance. Intel is "active member" (...)
  • Intel forbided other "partners" - OHA members to use term "netbook" if their hardware is ARM based because - Intel own trademark rights for "netbook" (after Intel sued Psion and took over "netbook").
    Anybody remember wxWindows/wxWidgets case of forced (re)naming, or Lindows/Linspire (now swallowed by Xandros, forced to colaborate with MS) case?
  • Last, but not the least: "Intel has announced that it is going to do with VxWorks what it cannot do with Moblin". Intel is buying whole embedded OS maker - Wind River! Please, read whole text.
They are buying time because they have not proper answer to ARM/Android standard which is going to be.
 
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Every company works for their own interests. Every person does too. Companies are businesses (stating the obvious) and it is another obvious that every company is going to look for means to gain money. They want their products to be the products people use and buy from.

Is that evil? In my opinion, NO. That is normal and expected. Make a product and sell it then you'll know what it is to be a business.

This is OpenPandora and people should use it however they want to use it with whatever software they want and whatever API they want to develop with and with whatever OS they want.
 
I had to give you a +1 on comment vote for that one.

Better yet,

Waiting for TI-99/4A operating system for Pandora - all with TI-BASIC and oh yeah, you don't have a qualified floppy drive so you need a qualified audio cassette drive that supports data transfer. Then you can emulate 75 baud acoustic coupler via WiFi

:lol:

EDITED NOTE: Someone Negged you (Gruso) after I have you a +1.
 
Exophase said:
Because many netbooks can be had for only $300 and you'll be hard pressed to find ARM variants that are cheaper.
Click to expand...
How about 99-199$? Dream about it at Atom.

Exophase said:
Power consumption is really the number one advantage of ARM devices, but you forgot a major disadvantage, which is that currently no ARM handheld offers competitive performance with a high end Atom one. Clock for clock the performance is probably not far off, but Atoms can clock a good 3x higher.
Click to expand...
Let's face it. it is meter of time when ARM will be equally fast, or even faster (e.g. OMAP4) then Atom.
"The latest QSD8672 chip (to be sampled in the second half of 2009) uses 45 nm technology and includes two CPU cores running at up to 1.5 GHz". And what about Cortex-9 MPCore? "ARM states that a single core (excluding caches) occupies less than 1.5 mm2 when designed in a TSMC 65 nanometer (nm) generic process.[2], can be clocked at speeds over 1GHz and consumes less than 250mW per core". And it is just beginning...
But Atom will never be less power consumptive. Just read what our old pal Sir Clive Sinclair said about it (June 1999!): he made many mistakes in history, but I almost 100% agree with this essay about Linux, Wintel, ARM/x86 architecture.

Exophase said:
But you didn't give any reasons for why Moblin is bad for Pandora, only reasons why it's bad for x86 devices.
Click to expand...
I post it here, but here is short answer: All Intel "Moblin hype" is fake. They just buying time.

Exophase said:
darkborn said:
It is in Pandora section because I found too much efforts to bring Moblin to Pandora, probably instead some other OS/platform (Android, Maemo, WebOS, or some more "classic" Linux distro).
Click to expand...
Who is making these efforts?
Click to expand...
Old thread is here, "We Need Moblin On Pandora" started 20 May 2009 et cetera.

Exophase said:
And Pandora already has a "classic" Linux distro (Angstrom).
Click to expand...
darkborn said:
ALTERNATIVE OS CHOICE
Click to expand...
Exophase said:
Okay, so your reasons for disliking Moblin are purely political then?
Click to expand...
I post it here, but here is short answer: All Intel "Moblin hype" is fake. They just buying time. "Intel has announced that it is going to do with VxWorks what it cannot do with Moblin"
 
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RickAstoria said:
Every company works for their own interests. Every person does too. Companies are businesses (stating the obvious) and it is another obvious that every company is going to look for means to gain money. They want their products to be the products people use and buy from.

Is that evil? In my opinion, NO. That is normal and expected. Make a product and sell it then you'll know what it is to be a business.

This is OpenPandora and people should use it however they want to use it with whatever software they want and whatever API they want to develop with and with whatever OS they want.
Click to expand...
I agree 100%; just I don't want people be fooled and e.g. spent time porting fake distro instead for instance proper wi-fi driver.
 
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darkborn said:
  • We have never considered switching the chip set in the Pandora for an Intel Atom® based one, what makes you think this?
Click to expand...
I think that you really like to put words in other mouth. What makes you think that I EVER thought about it?
Click to expand...
No one has said anything about Moblin for over a year, and then you suddenly show up and start saying how poor of a choice it would be. What else are people supposed to think?
 
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WizardStan said:
No one has said anything about Moblin for over a year, and then you suddenly show up and start saying how poor of a choice it would be. What else are people supposed to think?
Click to expand...

Not to mention the exhumation of the fetid, rotting corpse of the aforementioned thread not to even add your opinion, but merely to advertise this thread.
 
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