Minimenu And Tool Changes.. Rfc :)

[chris_c]

So I'm forced to use XFCE simply because it's easier and faster to find the app I'm looking for.

Wouldn't it be easier if mmenu followed the free desktop categories and sub categories like XFCE

allowing overrides for some user selected pnd's would be good, even better if this same setting effected the XFCE menu too

So when your Games/action games category gets overloaded you could move say powermanga to Games/action games/classic shooters

When selecting a tab in mmenu - holding down the pointer on the tab could bring up a flat list of all sub tabs and allow direct selection
as well as there being normal tab selection

 

[Esn]

Wouldn't it be easier if mmenu followed the free desktop categories and sub categories like XFCE

It would. Programs aren't always in the right place with those either, but it's better than the current tab mess in minimenu.

When selecting a tab in mmenu - holding down the pointer on the tab could bring up a flat list of all sub tabs and allow direct selection
as well as there being normal tab selection

What do you mean by "the pointer"? Everything in minimenu should be controlled by the 4 action buttons, L/R, and maybe the nubs, as much as possible, I think (basically, the buttons that are easy to reach). Only 2 of the 4 action buttons are being used currently, right?

Of the two that are not being used, how about assigning one of them to bring up the list of sub-tabs (as you said), and using the other one to bring up a pop-up menu that asks about whether you want to override the category that the app is in? Like YAFL on the GP32 (note the frame with the pop-up window that says "A - change category"):

P.S. I just read a bit of the discussion further up. I agree with ED about using "filters". If you're going to have sub-tabs, then make it so that the main "games" tab shows all games, while its sub-tab "games-racing" shows just the racing games.

P.P.S. In reply to the first post of this thread, I think that the primary efforts at minimenu improvement should be in the directions of simplicity and speed (so for example, as I'm clicking through the apps, sometimes minimenu will pause while it waits to load the big preview image on the right - that's annoying...).

 

[skeezix]

minimenu uses the categories as given; it is assumed that the PXML authors use the proper categories (But they don't half the time.) I have been tempted to shove bad cats into Other like XFCE so its consistent, but we should get pnd's cleaned up instead

The beta minimenu has detail panel toggle on/off, which is nice (larger grid when you want it)

You can turn on/off tabs in the config, so if you have too many, get rid of the ones you don't want; you can pull them up again later (quick pull in Select menu, or use config to enable/idsable them permanently); I rather expect most people to turn off most of the tabs, only keep on All and Game or somesuch. But by default, it has to show all, since peopel woudl expect they put a app into their pandora/menu (or whatever) and see it pop up, not just be vanished by default.

The upcoming minimenu build has a basic directory browser built in (turn on in config) which lets you run executables or pnd's rihgt from filesystem which may be handy (organize things however you want on SD card, even turn off all tabs and All and just use the file browser if you like.)

Upcoming minimenu also has an option in config, to turn subcats-tabs into folders in the parent category tabs instead, to avoid tab-spam (and instead have folder spam) (but again, you can turn off the categories you don't want to see.)

The config panel also has a basic scrollbar on it and item-counter so you can see where in the list of options you are, and some slightly better help.

I'm tweaking minimenu all the time .. all feedback is welcome

jeff

BTW .. Games tab (for example) _does_ show everythign from Games, and if the PXML was not stupid, it'll show all of its subcats too. ie: A PXML is supposed to have primary cat, and primary cats subcats (and alt cat, and alt cats subcats.) So if the PXML only supplies a subcar (if thats even possible, or puts unmatched ones in) it could bugger things up; but normally (and for most apps its true), the main tab will have everything, and the sub-cats will have only theirs. ie: So just turn off the subcats you don't care about (like Logic Games since theres only a couple of them), say.

 

[Esn]

minimenu uses the categories as given; it is assumed that the PXML authors use the proper categories (But they don't half the time.) I have been tempted to shove bad cats into Other like XFCE so its consistent, but we should get pnd's cleaned up instead

So how are you going to force the devs to do it?

Any quick fix would be welcome at this point. Doing it like XFCE does it would certainly be much better.

The trouble with manually hiding tabs is that I can't tell at a glance which ones are the main ones and which ones are the subtabs. I want to simplify the interface, but I also want every app to be listed SOMEWHERE.

Could you make an option to just "hide all subtabs" with the press of one button? Just a quick option to remove all the little tabs that duplicate programs that are already present in another, main tab.

 

[DaveC]

minimenu uses the categories as given; it is assumed that the PXML authors use the proper categories (But they don't half the time.) I have been tempted to shove bad cats into Other like XFCE so its consistent, but we should get pnd's cleaned up instead

So how are you going to force the devs to do it?

Any quick fix would be welcome at this point. Doing it like XFCE does it would certainly be much better.

The trouble with manually hiding tabs is that I can't tell at a glance which ones are the main ones and which ones are the subtabs. I want to simplify the interface, but I also want every app to be listed SOMEWHERE.

Could you make an option to just "hide all subtabs" with the press of one button? Just a quick option to remove all the little tabs that duplicate programs that are already present in another, main tab.

I think in the config there is an option to hide subcats isn't there? Doing this would reduce this mess.

Getting devs to stick to a standard is like herding cats. It will never happen. This is why it should be *easy* to allow users to file and name apps as they please. You can do it now as I said by hacking ovr files but it is a pain. Skeezix said this is comming though so that is good.

 

[chris_c]

minimenu uses the categories as given; it is assumed that the PXML authors use the proper categories (But they don't half the time.) I have been tempted to shove bad cats into Other like XFCE so its consistent, but we should get pnd's cleaned up instead

You should *absolutely* be putting them in a tab marked LAZY DEV and its should pop up a dialog saying that the pnd is incorrectly created every time the pnd is run

Having something that is categorised in the same consistent way whether in mmenu, XFCE or Acme Desktop is very worthwhile it will make the whole experience much more cohesive

I also think that under certain circumstances like missing tags (theres good example of a missing app tag on the wiki example!) it should refuse to show the pnd at all, providing that there is a reason for the fail in a log file...

 

[skeezix]

OKay, so should I go to freedesktop and get the canonicle list of categories and do something like..

- if any cat or subcat is bogus (spaces in the name, mispelt, or otherwise not matching the canonicle list), then toss it into "Other" tab

(that would pretty much take care of other odd cases; if: if subcat is present but parent cat is bad, that'd get handled by that rule, without a special rule.)

I could do that I suppose.

As to suppressing the app if its has some bad data in PXML -- no, thats going too far; I think the repo's can do that (refuse on upload, say), but theres no reason to punish the user .. if they've gotten a screwy PXLM pnd, but that pnd runs fine, then let them run it. But making it hard to distribute (hard to upload) has a case (annoy the dev, not the user.)

Right now I'm working on the subcat-as-folders code, which ought to help avoid tab spam from lame PXMLs, and you can still turn off the ones you don't want to see at all. (To me its fairly obvious which are parent and which are child. "Strategy" is a child, "Game" is a parent. *shrug*) But afte I've done the next set of changes, mm will better know internally which is which, so I could build a option into the config panel to (say..) just toggle to 'no show' all child subcats, so that you could flag them all off, then turn on any you'd like, say. *shrug*

As long as folks are making the feedback, then I'll refine the app; traditionally most feedback is about the emus like PCSX-Reaarmed, but generally not too much about minimenu, so I don't get much clue where folks want it to go

jeff

 

[Esn]

I could do that I suppose.

Huzzah!

just toggle to 'no show' all child subcats, so that you could flag them all off, then turn on any you'd like, say. *shrug*

And this too!

Thanks skeezix.

I think a lot of the lack of feedback is because of the lack of a lot of Pandoras, and perhaps a lot of the early units went out to serious devvy people who don't bother with minimalist GUIs...

 

[DaveC]

OKay, so should I go to freedesktop and get the canonicle list of categories and do something like..

- if any cat or subcat is bogus (spaces in the name, mispelt, or otherwise not matching the canonicle list), then toss it into "Other" tab

I could do that I suppose.

Right now I'm working on the subcat-as-folders code, which ought to help avoid tab spam from lame PXMLs, and you can still turn off the ones you don't want to see at all.

I could build a option into the config panel to (say..) just toggle to 'no show' all child subcats, so that you could flag them all off, then turn on any you'd like, say. *shrug*

As long as folks are making the feedback, then I'll refine the app; traditionally most feedback is about the emus like PCSX-Reaarmed, but generally not too much about minimenu, so I don't get much clue where folks want it to go

jeff

Maybe you don't get much feedback as it isn't *that* bad as is. If it was terrible people would be bitching. It just needs some polishing.

Anyway if things are tossed in to an "other" or "unfiled" tab or such hopefully they can be moved into the tab/ subcat that you want. I guess that can be handled by putting into a folder (on the SD) and will be reflected by the tab it shows in.

If you toggle the subcats off then they should display in main right? EX: Spacewar2000 has a main cat Game, Subcat Shooters. Normally it would show under the Game tab in a folder called Shooters. If you toggle off subcats it should still show up but just under Game I assume.

 

[skeezix]

Now that it has a (basic) directory browser, maybe I'll add a config item to turn off pnd scanning; that start up nigh instant, and imply dir browser mode. Ie: no categories at all, just pick a pnd or executable and run it! Organize any way you want put pnds in your sd root if you want to

Jeffphone

 

[sebt3]

Maybe you don't get much feedback as it isn't *that* bad as is. If it was terrible people would be bitching. It just needs some polishing.

I think you're right. But polishing is the hardest part.
I (for one) am completly unable to polish my works without input of what should/need to be cleaned and in what way.
That's the basic point of all my beta-test threads (beside finding real bugs, as I suck at that too)

In summary : we need more of you Dave

 

[skeezix]

Waaaait, wwwwwwwwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiit..

Did DaveC just compliment something?

I think we're all due for a company-paid free vacation day!

jeff

 

[skeezix]

Just so you know, next build of mmenu now has an option (default ON) so that apps with bad categories get stuffed into "Other". (If you like, you cna turn that option off, and have a pile of nasty cats show up.) Either way you can still turn them on/off in the config menu (you can turn off Other if you want.)

I did add the option to suppress pnd-scanning if you like, so it can start up fast as hell and just show directory browser tab(s), so you can just organize pnds/executables in your SD any damned way you like

jeff

 

[chris_c]

Just so you know, next build of mmenu now has an option (default ON) so that apps with bad categories get stuffed into "Other". (If you like, you cna turn that option off, and have a pile of nasty cats show up.) Either way you can still turn them on/off in the config menu (you can turn off Other if you want.)

I did add the option to suppress pnd-scanning if you like, so it can start up fast as hell and just show directory browser tab(s), so you can just organize pnds/executables in your SD any damned way you like

jeff

as well as scanning off, can "add a new pnd" be added? so you scan once and then add manually as you grab new stuff
This would allow for fast startup but normal menus, without having to wait for a new scan to be done when you add a single file

 

[skeezix]

Remind me in a week or two, could maybe add somethign like that; a manual-scan option and store the results to a DB.. probably not much faster, but a second here or there can help Its a bit of work, so I'm focusingon the stuff I've talked about instead first, then can make new todos in a bit

Added [ParentCatname] after the category name in the show/hide tabs list, so easier to know which is which.

I'm currently (optionally) checking for categories in the freedesktop list, but annoyingly, I'v found a few pnds that claim to be main cat "LogicGame", which is actually a subcat in freedesktop; so thats not an error to mm, since it is a real cat :/ I'll have to think about building in some code to actually verify if a subcat is a valid name, but actually is a parent cat, or vica versa. Man, these folks paid no attention in their PXML

jeff

 

[skeezix]

I think I'll post some screenshots so you can see the various options as they go in..

.. I'm really liking thigns lately; I've spent an enormous amount of time on these tweaks (and still piles ot go I'm sure , but its definately shaping up nicely

I'll try posting a beta or maybe an installer in a little bit.

jeff

 

[chris_c]

i can recommend sqlite, the C api is easy to use, flexible and fast.

 

[DaveC]

Remind me in a week or two, could maybe add somethign like that; a manual-scan option and store the results to a DB.. probably not much faster, but a second here or there can help Its a bit of work, so I'm focusingon the stuff I've talked about instead first, then can make new todos in a bit

Added [ParentCatname] after the category name in the show/hide tabs list, so easier to know which is which.

I'm currently (optionally) checking for categories in the freedesktop list, but annoyingly, I'v found a few pnds that claim to be main cat "LogicGame", which is actually a subcat in freedesktop; so thats not an error to mm, since it is a real cat :/ I'll have to think about building in some code to actually verify if a subcat is a valid name, but actually is a parent cat, or vica versa. Man, these folks paid no attention in their PXML

jeff

From my experience freedesktop sucks. That is why we have Emulators ending up in the Game tab instead of the Emulator tab and loads of other sillyness.

I don't think we should rely ion that and just allow easy override of the PXML cats since they are all over the place.

 

[skeezix]

If an Emu ends up in the Game tab and not the Emu tab, its because the dev who typed into the PXML screwed up.

The problems we're having now are because onthe order of 50% of pnds have bad/random categories in them; ie: one game mightr be category "Dungeon Crawler" (something the dev made up).. no way anythign can figure out thats a Game. Likewise, apps putting random junk in there..

We need to have _some_ standard, and freedesktop is the only really useful one around. Certainly a list of categories, that part of freedesktop is fine, right

As long as people start using them, it'll sort out; right now its a bit of chaos. Minimenu tries to work with it, but obviously only so much we can do, so now I'm moving it more towards the standards so its at least going to be sort of liek xfce's categories (since thats also the standard).

If its broken, toss it in Other, its better than users having 30 extra tabs with 1-2 apps in them, with weird names someone made up

Sure, it will all be over-ridable.

jeff