Mega Man Legends 3 Canceled

[sporkbox]

A Message From Capcom


Well, there goes one of the bigger reasons to get a 3DS... It seems that Capcom is hell-bent on ousting Mega Man games ever since Inafune left... As a Mega Man fan I'm really let down over all of this... Mega Man 9 was great; they followed it up with a so-so 10, and now the latest game to really show some promise gets canned? Screw Capcom. There is more to their games than Street Fighter, Dead Rising, and Lost Planet. They've been going downhill ever since Clover was let go. I never played Okami, but it looked like a game that was creative.


Well, Mega Man made Capcom what it is today. If they betray him, they will slowly die. It's one of the few franchises out there that prints money no matter what kind of game it is.

 

[Nintendo]

Yeah, unfortunate news.


Just copy 'n' pasting what I posted in this thread.

Well, it happened. MegaMan Legends 3 was cancelled (which also explains why the release date attached to the PEGI rating for the downloadable prologue-game was never met).


I can't say I'm surprised. The prior three Legends series games (MegaMan Legends, The Misadventures of Tron Bonne, and MegaMan Legends 2) all caused losses, and I was amazed they were even considering trying to make another installment to begin with.


I do feel bad for the Legends fans (though I will say that they never waited as long as some of us did for a new installment ), and I do think it's a shame that we won't see this one, but anyone with any remote, vague understanding of how business is supposed to work saw this result coming. It was obvious from the moment that it was revealed (some months after the game was "announced") that the team responsible had in fact not gotten the green-light for production (and were later turned down, but given extra time to make something better) - it feels as though they used an awful lot of people in an attempt to try to sell something that has three times proven to be unsaleable.


That said, I can't really say I'll miss it, either (though it is undoubtedly a shame that the prologue-game, which housed bosses and other things created by winners of the contests run in the "Dev Room" feature - will not be released, especially since it was actually scheduled to be released a mere couple of weeks ago). It rankled quite a bit to see the Legends series (that is, a sub-series that has long proven itself unprofitable - this is precisely why they never made MegaMan Legends 3 back in the early 2000s!) getting all-star treatment and a then-possible new retail installment, when the original (or "Classic") series (which to my knowledge is a more valuable property and has never caused losses like the Legends series did) got really shabby treatment for its comeback, in the form of the big comeback games being poxy downloadables with additional anti-customer practices thrown in (i.e., having to pay a large chunk more for extras in order to get the entire game's worth of content - something I didn't do), and with no real fuss made for them on Capcom's part.


It is interesting to see the "internet echo chamber effect" in play with this, though. I've already seen comments where people were convinced that the game had a ton of interest and would have sold in great numbers (I'm guessing these folks weren't aware of the Legends series' 100% loss-making history), and where the reality of the fact that stuff that won't sell is cancelled all the time was unwelcome.

It's a shame, maybe it can be resurrection again sometime in the near future...For PS Vita, perhaps.

 

[Prometheus]

It seems my other post has already been quoted. I'm afraid I'm going to have to speak some brutal truths here, though...


It must be said that the only customers really lost by Capcom here, are those who weren't aware of the Legends series' history as a 100% loss-maker.


For the uninitiated: There is a curious online-echo-chamber effect about the Legends series, in that people perceive it as "big and popular" due to its online following - the old "I like it, so it must sell lots!" effect. However, the sales and profit of the three original games (MegaMan Legends, The Misadventures of Tron Bonne, and MegaMan Legends 2) speak volumes - very few people wanted those games, and accordingly they made no money. In fact, they each made losses and put Capcom in the red. They were always very open about this fact (and it's even mentioned in the interview at the back of Mega Man Megamix Vol. 3), and this was, of course, the reason why they never made Legends 3 back in the early 2000s. The echo-chamber effect has come to be applied to Legends 3, as well - there are astonishing numbers of people who thought that it had huge interest from all quarters, and that it was going to be a universal system-seller that sold millions.


The fuss made over Legends 3, before they had to eventually confess that no production green-light had been given, was most likely yet another effort from the team responsible to get their way, in spite of very clear evidence that the game was destined for failure. This is probably also why the second game was left on a cliffhanger - some sort of attempt to guarantee that they got to make another installment in this (to put it sadly bluntly) failed sub-series.


MegaMan Legends 3 never had a snowball's chance in hell of being made, and I was always astonished by the fact that Capcom had allowed this team to do what they did. It was a vanity-project (intended, going on what's been said in interviews where the Legends series came up, to attempt to recreate how the developers felt back in the late 1990s), plain and simple.


The other cancelled game (Mega Man Universe) was the same, and also a vanity-project (this time, someone trying to recreate Mega Man 2 out of a misguided belief that doing so would bring the old times back) - and with that one they even openly admitted that it was solely aimed at immature man-children who treated their possessions with disrespect when they were actual children (quick and important note for those unaware: You don't treat your mythos like crap in that fashion - it loses sales and customers; That is likely one of the reasons that Mega Man Universe was cancelled). It was not a Mega Man game - just a game featuring toys to be broken that happened to look like Mega Man.


Before anyone with an emotional investment lynches me for the above: I'm not speaking against the games or their quality. However, I would hope that that's obvious, since I can't see any other way of reading the above.


Unfortunately, this is just the way the business goes - games that don't sell are cancelled before being made *all the time*. The only difference here is that a team who knew they had no chance, has created an enormous PR disaster that is partially being fed by folks who do not understand how this all works, or that MegaMan Legends has never sold well.


I quite agree with sporkbox that Mega Man prints money. However, unfortunately, MegaMan Legends doesn't, and never has.

 

[sporkbox]

I don't think Capcom can use business as an excuse. They're one of the biggest third party devs around, and any potential losses incurred by Legends 3 would easily be made up through their other properties. I say "potential" because they can't prove Legends 3 would fail without releasing it. They can't use the performance of the last 2 as an excuse because the industry was different then than it is now. I see this as Capcom following the Western business way; taking no chances and relying only on what will bring in money. Innovation will take a hit through that business practice, and we will see no new developments in existing series. The Legends series was underappreciated by fans initially, but gained a following through word-of-mouth over the Internet. It's clear from the size of the Devroom fanbase that Legends 3 would have enjoyed success at retail, especially since it'll be a while before Kid Icarus comes out and the Legends series offers a neat mix of genres you don't find anywhere else.


The ZX series was shat on with Advent, the Zero series ended, we haven't seen anything from the X series since X8, and the classic series has been so-so with the awesome 9 and lackluster 10. The Battle Network and StarForce series are effectively dead now, too. What's left for Mega Man? Capcom's killing him.

 

[Prometheus]

Business is not an "excuse", I'm afraid. You're quite right about the industry being different now, though - games like Legends sold better back then, which makes me curious as to why most folks never bought them. I know you say you can't take it as precedent, but you can - similar games continue to not sell in great numbers.


It's interesting that you mention the Dev Room fan-base, though. In total, there were roughly 10,000 members globally, and many of those ended up not participating much or at all after expressing an initial interest. Even if we are to assume that every single person in that 10,000 would definitely buy the game, that's still not going to be enough to recoup costs - indeed, even, say, ZX Advent, which, quite the opposite of the entire Legends series, sold solidly and consistently and did so for quite a while, sold more than that during its first day or two. I think that it's a curious aside how that one never got a follow-up, even though it did sell, yet a series repeatedly rejected throughout three main installments and a selection of mobile telephone games, seems to be repeatedly claimed to be guaranteed success. It would take an awful lot more sales than that, and I can see no guarantee of getting them, as games of that sort have time and time again proven to sell less than, say, the 2D installments, for example.


I suspect there may also have been some sort of big problem with the product, since the prologue-game was withdrawn *very* shortly before its release. I'd love to have gotten to buy it, but that's not how it is, so ah well - what was never going to be is no loss to me.


Still, cutting out games that have a low likelihood of selling is essential for any series' health - which is why even respectably-selling games like ZX Advent didn't get follow-ups, and precisely why Legends 3 (which is unfortunately part of a 100% unsuccessful sub-series) isn't happening - and that's unfortunately what has happened here. I know that it's not a popular fact among some gamers that this is a business, but this is just how businesses go - it's not purely about "creativity" and it's certainly not about making what some developers want to make for themselves and which happens to collide with the interests of some. Again, it's nothing about the quality of the games, nor is it anything personal that they're directing at anyone - it is just business.

 

[sporkbox]

Then I (and others who don't approve) must do the only thing possible in the business: withdraw our money. Business gets in the way of everything except getting money. Seriously, take a look at photography or other arts that have been turned into industries. The ideas and actual artistry is always played down and disregarded, because the almighty dollar is more important. What good is business, when you really think about it? Business is about earning money, flat out. More often than not, it's cutting corners whenever possible to improve the bottom line (or please shareholders) and everything else becomes victim to the steamroller of business. This mindset corrupts everything it comes in contact with.


Video games have been a business for a long time, true. But when was the last time a game in a high-profile, long-time series was hyped like this and invited the fans to participate in the process? It was unprecedented and begged the question "what would this do for other series?" Unfortunately, everyone will see the MML3 project as a failure and other devs will tighten up their information leaking and PR. It's an awful time to be a gamer; the industry is floundering and alienating long-time gamers like me. DLC is being released such as the recent Black Ops DLC: 5 maps for $15! Come on! Then there's the obsession that mainstream gaming has with war, zombies, and gore. Can we get games that aren't bloody, zombified, or filled with military or war-oriented themes? It'd be a good change of pace.


Perhaps it's time for me and others to move onto the homebrew and indy scenes, where people actually care about their games and their fans.


It would not have hurt Capcom in any meaningful way to release MML3, and a lot of fans would be happy; not threatening to boycott Capcom. I think I'll be joining them until Capcom shows that they're serious about games as an art form instead of something to squeeze money from.


For the record, I'm beginning to feel this way about Konami, too. When's the last time we got a good Castlevania? Order of Ecclesia, 2008. They're focusing on MGS and that's mostly it. They're next on the radar.

 

[Blue Protoman]

Then I (and others who don't approve) must do the only thing possible in the business: withdraw our money. Business gets in the way of everything except getting money. Seriously, take a look at photography or other arts that have been turned into industries. The ideas and actual artistry is always played down and disregarded, because the almighty dollar is more important. What good is business, when you really think about it? Business is about earning money, flat out. More often than not, it's cutting corners whenever possible to improve the bottom line (or please shareholders) and everything else becomes victim to the steamroller of business. This mindset corrupts everything it comes in contact with.


Video games have been a business for a long time, true. But when was the last time a game in a high-profile, long-time series was hyped like this and invited the fans to participate in the process? It was unprecedented and begged the question "what would this do for other series?" Unfortunately, everyone will see the MML3 project as a failure and other devs will tighten up their information leaking and PR. It's an awful time to be a gamer; the industry is floundering and alienating long-time gamers like me. DLC is being released such as the recent Black Ops DLC: 5 maps for $15! Come on! Then there's the obsession that mainstream gaming has with war, zombies, and gore. Can we get games that aren't bloody, zombified, or filled with military or war-oriented themes? It'd be a good change of pace.


Perhaps it's time for me and others to move onto the homebrew and indy scenes, where people actually care about their games and their fans.


It would not have hurt Capcom in any meaningful way to release MML3, and a lot of fans would be happy; not threatening to boycott Capcom. I think I'll be joining them until Capcom shows that they're serious about games as an art form instead of something to squeeze money from.


For the record, I'm beginning to feel this way about Konami, too. When's the last time we got a good Castlevania? Order of Ecclesia, 2008. They're focusing on MGS and that's mostly it. They're next on the radar.

Keep an eye out for me, then.

 

[sporkbox]

Blue Protoman: You intend to play into the same industry that's taking fans for a ride currently? I hope you enter the independent scene instead, since I imagine you want your ideas and future games to be respected and enjoyed instead of milked for every dime that's in'em. I plan on releasing games on my own as well, as soon as my skill in C and SDL is high enough.

 

[Blue Protoman]

Of course independent. But I have to eat, pay employees, and keep the company afloat, don't I? That's my monetary goal, not being rich enough to buy a house on Long Island.

 

[bzar]

I find this appropriate.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZiofLnWKc8Y?feature=oembed


... but I'm sorry.

 

[Prometheus]

^ It's sadly ironic to see that awesome song posted in such a manner. I still have the MP3 of that, as well as the tune that was used on the official Japanese site for Legends 3 (which is just an MP3 that the site is coded to play).


It is a shame that all of the fan efforts to encourage people to buy the numerous re-releases of Legends 1 and 2 in early 2004 (~$9.95 downloadable re-release of the Microsoft Windows version of Legends 1), late 2005 (budget-priced PSP releases of both Legends 1 and 2), and 2008 (cheaper re-print of the latter to try to eke out some more sales), still couldn't make up enough demand... I don't think any group of fans could have tried harder.


And yeah, just in case anyone was wondering, I am sad to see it go (it might not have looked like it before), and whilst I believe that the right business decision was made, I also think that the completely wrong PR one was made. They're going to have to do something really big to pull out of the disaster they've created for themselves between this and the anti-customer stuff they did with Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries, and that Final Fight: Double Impact downloadable.

 

[bzar]

Such a manner? My intention was to show the irony considering the theme of the song (which IS awesome) and the ending of the video. The cycle repeats once more. I apologise if it seemed to be posted with rude intentions. Not what I was after.

 

[Blue Protoman]

...and the anti-customer stuff they did with Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries, and that Final Fight: Double Impact downloadable.

What exactly happened (sans the save slot debacle with Mercenaries)?

 

[Prometheus]

Such a manner? My intention was to show the irony considering the theme of the song (which IS awesome) and the ending of the video. The cycle repeats once more. I apologise if it seemed to be posted with rude intentions. Not what I was after.

No no no, I didn't mean your post came off as rude - quite the opposite. I just meant it was sad. And it is, especially after people poured so much into it.

...and the anti-customer stuff they did with Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition, Resident Evil: The Mercenaries, and that Final Fight: Double Impact downloadable.

What exactly happened (sans the save slot debacle with Mercenaries)?

My understanding is that with Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition, it was initially sold with a scheme in place where you couldn't play with all features/characters unless you were playing multiplayer over the internet. It caused a fair bit of ire, and I seem to recall that they had to issue a patch to rescind this dubious "feature".


With the Final Fight: Double Impact downloadable, I gather that they didn't make customers aware that, unlike other PS3 download purchases, this game could not be shared between accounts.


Aside from those incidents, I've just heard that they've released Super Street Fighter IV: Arcade Edition as a home-console downloadable, and that it's impacted arcade operators' revenues very negatively indeed. That's some big-spending customers (the operators) who I am quite sure are hugely unhappy right now.


There's also the thing with not localising Ace Attorney Investigations 2, even though I understand that the first Ace Attorney Investigations did decently, and the universal ire that the Devil May Cry fan-base is feeling towards the series' reboot by Ninja Theory. (As an aside, word on Professor Layton vs. Phoenix Wright has gone awfully, awfully quiet, along with a contradictory statement from Capcom that they have little say in it, even though early on they claimed that people from both companies were heavily involved to make sure it was true to both series concerned. Part of me almost suspects that that game may not be long for this world.)


They seem to be annoying an awful lot of people from across the spectrum lately.

 

[Blue Protoman]

All the big game companies are. We need a complete refresh of all the non-creative staff (ie, most of the business men).

 

[Prometheus]

I suspect you're wrong there. When you know more about why Legends 3 was worked on as it was, you'll understand that the problem stemmed from the "creative types" in this instance, I'm afraid.


But, if you're curious, I'll sum it up. Keiji Inafune had a history of working on games that he wanted to make, instead of what customers actually wanted, and in several cases (including a couple of large-scale flops), he worked on them in secret in an effort to make sure they would be released because too much had been spent on them not to do so. That's what the Dev Room was - an awful lot of people were used for this, and I should damn well hope they're angry at the right people for it.

 

[bzar]

it's a shame the fans didn't want to get more involved :-( if we saw there was an audience for MML3 people might change minds

News item


Original tweet


Are they trying to get people riled up? Why would they blame the fans?

 

[Prometheus]

It's Capcom Europe. They always had a bit of a reputation for that, sadly.


I'm guessing that they're referring to the fact that they wanted the "Dev Room" to get 69,000 members (this number can apparently be read as "Rokuman", which is just short of "Rokkuman", or, rather Rockman - the series' name in Japan), but only got around 10,000.

 

[Night]

There's this one question that keeps repeating itself in my mind. If capcom indeed knew it was probable that they won't be able to delivere on MML3 for either a capitalist or a technical reason, why would they announce it in the first place? Morever, later cann it and mess with the fans with comments like "We excpected more input" and "We wanted the fans to make the game" (Though this was said by capcom eu).


If that's the case why couldn't they just say something else in the first place, something like that the release of MML3 will be only possible if a certian level of support was to be made and that otherwise they can't prommise anyone anything.


Lately with all the "Super street fighter ultra alpha 2 combo: aracde" editions (yet again), on-disc DLC, paid demos and now this, i have been getting the idea someone at capcom just trolls the fanbase for a buck.


They used to be respected among gamers form what i hear...

 

[WizardStan]

Because Capcom has been in the third party titles business for a long time and never really needed to market things to the general public. Turns out, now that they are marketing things directly, they're really bad at it.