GP2X Linux - What's The Point?

[christo930]

While I'm sure its a little more complicated that this, it seems to me an OS supplies 3 basic things:

An interface for the user to interact with the machine, to launch sofware and the like

A set of programming interfaces (api's) so you don't need to reinvent the wheel over and over with every peice of software (which I'm assuming a dev kit would do anyway)

To use different hardware transparently through the use of API's and a driver system. THis way, the programmer doesn't need to know what hardware is installed, the driver takes care of it.

I'm sure there is other stuff it does, but these seem to be the most important.

Since the GP2x is a game system a user shouldn't need a user interface. It's not a computer and besides the need to launch software installed on the card, which can be handled with a simple program like free launcher, there should be no need to interact with the machine.

A vendor supplied dev kit or a custom dev kit should supply any api's needed

Since the gpx2 is a closed system the programmer can always assume the same hardware, so there is no need for a driver system.

So whats the point of having an OS like Linux with a closed game system? Is it just for the buzz word? Cheaper for the manufacturer than designing a custom os/ api system?

Chris

 

[Digital Awakening]

First of this is not a pure game system, it's also a media system. You can play music and movies on it and many will. You can even conect it to a TV to watch movies in higher resolution. Cheaper I guess and also the 3 points you mentioned. Drivers for SDIO cards can be made. I don't know much about the chip and how it works with the Linux OS, both in 1 pack perhaps? Would make sence to me. There's a lot of Linux software (applications and games) that can easily be ported to GP2X and I bet a lot of Linux devs are happy to have a handheld to develop for without having to learn anything new.

 

[Ferentix]

It's like Digital Awakening just said, plus the fact that this basically means that a good number of games and other apps can be converted to gp2x very quickly. Basically it provides a springboard for quick ports etc. It also allows for immediate ability to develop new games using the popular SDL- no need to write graphic and sound routines etc. from scratch. This is important because there is little/no commercial support for gp2x as yet, so it's important that the homebrew developers are able to get in there and make stuff quickly. Later on, new stuff will hopefully get done that will allow the option to NOT use Linux, for improved performance. See http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=21904 for more info B)

 

[torpor]

So whats the point of having an OS like Linux with a closed game system? Is it just for the buzz word? Cheaper for the manufacturer than designing a custom os/ api system?

Its not a buzz word. Do you really know what you're sayingn when you say, quite generally, "Linux"?

Generally, Linux is much much much more than 'just an OS providing abstraction to the hardware'.

There are, in point of fact, an infinities worth of games you could write with libcairo/libsvg, some libpthreads, and a bit of SDL for setup.

Fortunately, all these libs are ported to Linux, and are .. thus .. easy to use, to make games, rather quickly.

Course, it really seems that you're asking the question about "Why Linux?" means that you, really really don't really know what the word "Linux" means when you're using it. Linux means a serious kick in the ass for anyone who wants to make games fast .. and what better group of people to do that than an open, community of programmers, rather than secretive, protective borgs making 'mass hit entertainment' .. 'software' ..

 

[Radek]

While I'm sure its a little more complicated that this, it seems to me an OS supplies 3 basic things:

An interface for the user to interact with the machine, to launch sofware and the like

A set of programming interfaces (api's) so you don't need to reinvent the wheel over and over with every peice of software (which I'm assuming a dev kit would do anyway)

To use different hardware transparently through the use of API's and a driver system. THis way, the programmer doesn't need to know what hardware is installed, the driver takes care of it.

I'm sure there is other stuff it does, but these seem to be the most important.

Since the GP2x is a game system a user shouldn't need a user interface. It's not a computer and besides the need to launch software installed on the card, which can be handled with a simple program like free launcher, there should be no need to interact with the machine.

A vendor supplied dev kit or a custom dev kit should supply any api's needed

Since the gpx2 is a closed system the programmer can always assume the same hardware, so there is no need for a driver system.

I disagree. The GP2x isn't an 8 bit computer and it's better to deal with something like SDL instead using hardware directly. Some efficiency is lost for sure but it's giving flexibility and it's quicker do develop. For an example the GP2x's SDL library isn't using the "2d accelerator" for now probably. So just one change in a driver will improve performance of all SDL's aplications. If you would code directly to hardware and skipped the "2d accelerator", then using it would need a big rewrite of code.

So whats the point of having an OS like Linux with a closed game system? Is it just for the buzz word? Cheaper for the manufacturer than designing a custom os/ api system?

"Custom design" are more costly indeed. Linux brings functionality (networking, graphics, filesystems, mplayer, etc.) what had to be coded again otherwise. So it was far cheaper to use Linux. Another plus is that a aplication can be developed and tested just on the PC as GP2x has the same (common) platform. Everything in the limits of GP2x hardware of course.

 

[EvilDragon]

I disagree. The GP2x isn't an 8 bit computer and it's better to deal with something like SDL instead using hardware directly. Some efficiency is lost for sure but it's giving flexibility and it's quicker do develop. For an example the GP2x's SDL library isn't using the "2d accelerator" for now probably. So just one change in a driver will improve performance of all SDL's aplications. If you would code directly to hardware and skipped the "2d accelerator", then using it would need a big rewrite of code.

Well, that's the same using NOT Linux.
The GP32 is not using Linux, still we have an SDL port.

It simply depends on the SDK.
There will be an SDK for the custom hardware, which will surely see frequent updates (until there's nothing more to include ), so just recompile with the new library, and that's it.

This is no reason for choosing Linux.

 

[aapje89]

I think another reason that they did it, is that it sounds cool B)

 

[Oscaruzzo]

It simply depends on the SDK.
There will be an SDK for the custom hardware, which will surely see frequent updates (until there's nothing more to include ), so just recompile with the new library, and that's it.

This is no reason for choosing Linux.

​

If you are using linux AND dynamic libraries, you don't need to recompile the apps, just update the libs.

 

[gp2brew]

1. Sounds cool.

2. Gets GP2X in Linux magazines and news sites around the world (already happening I've heard).

3. Attracts the Linux geek elite devotee zealots who will go for anything that has something to do with penguins.

4. Allows some to port embedded Linux and SDL apps quickly, even though with only dual 200Mhz CPU and 64Mb of ram it chews up resources.

5. Lets GPH not have to worry so much about developing custom APIs.

6. See 1, carry on.

Here's a thing for the Linux crazies out there though. GPH is not releasing the source code for their GPL firmware/Linux. Now what do ya think of that, eh?

 

[g_sus]

1. Sounds cool.

2. Gets GP2X in Linux magazines and news sites around the world (already happening I've heard).

3. Attracts the Linux geek elite devotee zealots who will go for anything that has something to do with penguins.

4. Allows some to port embedded Linux and SDL apps quickly, even though with only dual 200Mhz CPU and 64Mb of ram it chews up resources.

5. Lets GPH not have to worry so much about developing custom APIs.

6. See 1, carry on.

Here's a thing for the Linux crazies out there though. GPH is not releasing the source code for their GPL firmware/Linux. Now what do ya think of that, eh?

​

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I found about the GP2X from a Linux website, and I am one of those linux devotees who will do anything thats got anything to do with penguins. Having Linux on it will allow people like myself, who have limited programming experience to port applications. I personally wish to port xmms or something of the like.

GPH not releasing the source code makes my blood boil with the rage of 1000 moons. They better get on that unless they wish to incur some very nerdy wrath.

 

[EvilDragon]

It simply depends on the SDK.
There will be an SDK for the custom hardware, which will surely see frequent updates (until there's nothing more to include ), so just recompile with the new library, and that's it.

This is no reason for choosing Linux.

​

If you are using linux AND dynamic libraries, you don't need to recompile the apps, just update the libs.

​

But this also means that some programs only run if you have the correct libraries on it, making this not very userfriendly.

(that's one of the few points I don't like with Linux: You download software, and if you're unlucky, you have to download 20 different libraries (correct version numbers, of course), before it will run...)

 

[Cyclops]

It simply depends on the SDK.
There will be an SDK for the custom hardware, which will surely see frequent updates (until there's nothing more to include ), so just recompile with the new library, and that's it.

This is no reason for choosing Linux.

​

If you are using linux AND dynamic libraries, you don't need to recompile the apps, just update the libs.

​

But this also means that some programs only run if you have the correct libraries on it, making this not very userfriendly.

(that's one of the few points I don't like with Linux: You download software, and if you're unlucky, you have to download 20 different libraries (correct version numbers, of course), before it will run...)

​

Libary dependancy is a problem I have not experienced in the last two years. Its an area in which people have put a lot of time into and have been sucessful. If you are getting it now its time to switch distribution.

 

[nubie]

1. Sounds cool.

2. Gets GP2X in Linux magazines and news sites around the world (already happening I've heard).

3. Attracts the Linux geek elite devotee zealots who will go for anything that has something to do with penguins.

4. Allows some to port embedded Linux and SDL apps quickly, even though with only dual 200Mhz CPU and 64Mb of ram it chews up resources.

5. Lets GPH not have to worry so much about developing custom APIs.

6. See 1, carry on.

Here's a thing for the Linux crazies out there though. GPH is not releasing the source code for their GPL firmware/Linux. Now what do ya think of that, eh?

​

Thats exactly what I was thinking, I found about the GP2X from a Linux website, and I am one of those linux devotees who will do anything thats got anything to do with penguins. Having Linux on it will allow people like myself, who have limited programming experience to port applications. I personally wish to port xmms or something of the like.

GPH not releasing the source code makes my blood boil with the rage of 1000 moons. They better get on that unless they wish to incur some very nerdy wrath.

​

They haven't released the source because they haven't released the console, seems fair to me

I think they used linux because it came with the chip h34r:

Don't knock it, they are just using the chip as it came, WITH linux, I have seen the magiceyes website, the other option would be microsoft windows, now quit bitching.

 

[gp2brew]

They haven't released the source because they haven't released the console, seems fair to me

I think they used linux because it came with the chip h34r:

Don't knock it, they are just using the chip as it came, WITH linux, I have seen the magiceyes website, the other option would be microsoft windows, now quit bitching.

​

Sheesh, people seem to be a bit touchy and prone to getting the wrong idea at the moment, which I can understand.

I am not bitching.

GPL isn't something anyone should be messing with, no matter what the motivation, and GPH are like it or not messing with the GPL of Magic Eyes and they are messing with the community by not releasing the source to their own GPL work.

Seriously, this isn't something to be brushed aside, GPL must be respected. It is set in stone word of GPL that when an open source product is distributed, the GPL license and the source code must also be distributed. It has been distributed, there's no technicality there.

AGAIN, I am not GPH bashing, I am not Linux bashing, I am not baiting, I just have an opinion that has been formed from seeing situations like this go very bad in other open source communities, for people who have good intentions but incur the wrath of GPL crazies for not following the licensing rules.

Ok, so that's clear now then. Good.

 

[Cyclops]

Sheesh, people seem to be a bit touchy and prone to getting the wrong idea at the moment, which I can understand.

I am not bitching.

GPL isn't something anyone should be messing with, no matter what the motivation, and GPH are like it or not messing with the GPL of Magic Eyes and they are messing with the community by not releasing the source to their own GPL work.

Seriously, this isn't something to be brushed aside, GPL must be respected. It is set in stone word of GPL that when an open source product is distributed, the GPL license and the source code must also be distributed. It has been distributed, there's no technicality there.

AGAIN, I am not GPH bashing, I am not Linux bashing, I am not baiting, I just have an opinion that has been formed from seeing situations like this go very bad in other open source communities, for people who have good intentions but incur the wrath of GPL crazies for not following the licensing rules.

Ok, so that's clear now then. Good.

You approched a very serious topic the wrong way, one that did and should be raised, but not by you, or me for that matter, becuase judging by my posts and yours we and most poeople in this forum are ill equipped to deal with the situation.

I could speculate the many reasons why GPH can't or are unwilling to release the source, but I suspect the reasons are many. The real question is how to get GPH to release the source. The first step is obviously quite negotiation which is clearly already being done .

The next steps are http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/enforcing-gpl.html

Personally I do not know whether steps should be taken sooner or later.

I do belive particularly becuase of a few seemingly minor bugs in the firmware(I can here some poor coder being screamed at every time the wind changes). That releasing it anywas is a really really good idea, and they will benefit greatly with expantion of there current offerings.