Let's think about a killer game...

[Kev2442]

Hi everybody,

I'm quite the newbie here as I just registered today, although I've been reading the blog for somewhat 5 months and I'm totally buying one.

There's one thing the Pandora was missing (and one of the reasons I never had one), and that's a killer game.

As a reminder, a "killer game" is, like a killer app, a game which is the one game you should have on your console.

For example, Halo or Fable on the original XBOX.

I've never seen such a thing on the Pandora. Its games are mostly open source ports like Tux Racing and emulated classics.

Maybe we should do more.

I know it's not anywhere near an easy thing, but it wouldn't hurt to try something.

I don't know, maybe a good racing game (always lacking on smartphones and handhelds, except for Mario Kart-likes) or a FPS (very popular to date).

This way, we could send people a message, clearly showing "This is what Pyra is capable of, and here's why you can't have it : you don't own one. Yet.".

We would have both quite a benchmark and an original game, attracting more and more gamers.

A console's sales are made on its games, and frankly, I haven't seen anything on the OpenPandora except for some 2D games.

So how would we do so ?

I'm willing to help as much as I can. But we would need a whole lotta Rosie help.

Maybe we could first try to port a big and powerful engine like Unity.

Maybe we could also make our own.

Maybe the engine could be open source, allowing for more and more devs using and enhancing it.

But we need 3D. And a really good one.

Let's show the world the Pyra's very guts.

P.S. : I know I'm a little enthusiastic over here, and that's kinda crazy. But I just had to share my thoughts.

 

[Wally]

I think this is a great idea. There's not many games out there that show the power of a portable device (specifically open source) with high resolution textures and EXCELLENT gameplay.

A lot of the stuff we've seen on the Pandora is pretty good but a good community based game where everyone can pitch in could make the whole thing a lot sweeter.

The only problem I see is we in theory won't have access to all the hardware stuff so that's a challenge.

I feel there's a lack of adventure games and too many FPS. 

Oculus Rift support anyone?  

 

[WizardStan]

Pyra Panic!

 

[rygD]

 killer game

Russian Roulette.

Now I will actually read the thread.

Edit:

I've never seen such a thing on the Pandora.

On the Pandora, for me it was Linux and a keyboard in my pocket with all day battery life.

I don't know, maybe a good racing game (always lacking on smartphones and handhelds, except for Mario Kart-likes) or a FPS (very popular to date).

 
I like these.  I haven't really been impressed by most modern FPSs, so maybe something like the classic ones.

A console's sales are made on its games, and frankly, I haven't seen anything on the OpenPandora except for some 2D games.  

I consider the Pandora and Pyra to be more in the UMPC/palmtop category.  I know they were designed primarily as gaming devices, but they offer so much more.  As for the 2d games, I like these types of games, and they still seem popular enough that new ones are still being made and sold.  Maybe a good option is to have a few different games or programs to appeal to a few different types of people.  I would love to have a suite of network tools available on the Pyra at launch.  Maybe a FPS with modern graphics and some of the good stuff that plays like an older one.  Some sort of really fun exclusive puzzle game that isn't available elsewhere would help get some attention.  

This may be a little out there, but what about combining elements from different popular game genres?  You could have a game with elements of racing and FPSs that also switches over to a puzzle game and other stuff at times.  It would require a good story to hold it all together, but that shouldn't be difficult.  The protagonist can need to get somewhere fast, then when she gets there she has to shoot her way into a vault or something where she has to solve puzzles.

I feel there's a lack of adventure games and too many FPS. 

Throw some adventure stuff into my idea above.  I still think keeping FPS elements would be nice.  I don't know if there can really be too many games in a genre.  You aren't required to play them, but those who like them like variety, or the different experiences. 

Another benefit of a game like this made for the Pyra is that it is similar to the Pyra, where it is a little bit of everything.  It can be a highly polished tech demo showing off a bunch of stuff.  Going with this diverse approach would allow people working on different parts of the game to do their own thing without worrying about what others are doing, while still working together with them on the whole project.  I don't know how easy something like this would be to accomplish, but it seems interesting to me.  I have no skills to make a game, so maybe it is a dumb idea.

 

[TrashyMG]

"killer game"

Ah time to dust off one of my Hangman games I made each in less than 15 minutes for my server side alternative languages class.. You like your Hangman in perl, php, ruby or python?

 

[EssoAir]

I beg to differ. The Pandora is an open platform that's all about compatibility. If there was something exclusive to it, wouldn't that go against its nature?

 

[rygD]

Not really.  They didn't initially share the hardware design stuff.  I think those still have some restrictions.  My idea was not that it couldn't be ported, but that it would initially only be available for the Pyra, and that it would be optimized for that hardware.  After a game is created it is up to the person(s) that created it what happens to it.  There is also commercial software in the repo.

If I understand Kev2442 the plan is just to bring some more attention to the Pyra.  

Actually, I think telling people they can't release stuff exclusively for the Pyra/Pandora is going against the nature of such a device more than the software would be.

 

[thatgui]

Good idea (but as WizardStand already pointed out, not a new one)... It won't lead anywhere, but good idea nevertheless....

 

[klapse]

This reminds me of the time me and 3 friends sat down together to write a "killer game". We were about 12 years old.

To our credit, under my leadership, we did come up with something resembling a design document of things we wanted in the game...

 

[mcobit]

I still think the killerapp for the Pandora is Drastic, the NDS emu. Also there are a lot of things that were never done before, started on our device.


Like portable Daphne emulator, conversions of Games like Rtcw, Jedi Knight 2+3 and the Kenta Cho games.


People will always do what they feel like with an open device and I thought nk we will only have to wait. With the more powerful Pyra, I could imagine things like Doom3 will be in reach and will be ported.


New and exclusive games are always a good thing, but they would need to come from a Studio. I am not sure if some people from a community could code an a+ game in their free time when big Studios need almost the same budget to make a game than to make a Movie these days.

 

[sebt3]

you're forgotting PCSX-reARMed, the newer dynarec in mupen, linuxboch works and so on.

This community drive the gaming on handhelds and have since ages : the 1st snes emulator working on a handheld ? from here. The 1st psx emu on a handheld ? from here too...

But yeah, there no chance for a AAA game exclusive for the pyra...

 

[pmprog]

a community could code an a+ game in their free time

Especially as the last "community" project didn't fair too well.

 

[bzar]

It's very, very, very easy to underestimate the amount of work that goes into making even a simple game let alone a complex one. It's usually quite simple to get a mechanics demo up and feel like half the work is done, but actually be only around 5-10% done. Content and polishing take by far the most time. This is also the part a ready engine doesn't help you with much.

For an example: Consider a game like Rochard, made in the well-rounded commercial game engine Unity. The game itself is not mechanically all that complex. It's basically a physics engine playground with a few unique twists. However what makes it a game and not a fun demo is the amount of content and polish. I'm relatively certain our little community could when motivated well whip up the mechanics of that game using commonly available open source components like Bullet in less time than it took that studio to make the content and polish the game.

a good read on finishing games

EDIT: I propose aiming lower first. A lot lower. The previous community game projects have not gone so well. For example, we could take an existing game the community has made and make it awesome.

 

[thatgui]

a good read on finishing games

Nice read, thanks

EDIT: I propose aiming lower first. A lot lower. The previous community game projects have not gone so well. For example, we could take an existing game the community has made and make it awesome.

I would be more than happy if these efforts could be "rerouted" into a more polished user experience, so "not so Linux savvy" websites doing reviews aren't that easily repelled from really testing the device (like it happend with the Pandora).

 

[Red Ring Rico]

I would be interested in participating as a programmer.  As B-ZaR pointed out (I think), it would be a much better idea to work up to a "Killer Game".  Starting with something as relatively simple as a Pac-Man clone would help gauge the viability of working on a larger game.

There are also a lot of things to build up over time, such as a way to manage the development, track bugs, and edit levels.  It would be quite a while before even a simple game could be completed, mainly due to the initial setting up of a team and getting used to working together.

I'm curious, Kev2442, if you have any experiece in developing games and if you have an OMAP5432-based development board to work with.

 

[Mr_Loon]

The idea of a 'killer game' for Pyra is a good one.

However IMHO we should be looking for 'killer ports', i.e. something that the only way to play on a handheld device would be with a Pyra.

The obvious candidate to me is minecraft, after seeing how well this works with a 1Ghz Pandora. If the full PC version of minecraft can be made to run at an acceptable frame rate on Pyra then this would probably lead to both additional sales & good publicity.

Based on what we've seen with Pandora (things like starcraft) then there should be potential for some mind blowing ports for Pyra.

 

[Bosbeetle]

Okay I thought about a killer game... now what? 

 

[mjohansson]

It takes a long time to make a game, and people have their lives to live and perhaps don't want to spend all free time on a game that will bring them nothing in return, if it could be sold or put on a cv for looking for a job then it could be justified more. But no game exclusive for the Pyra will sell in droves, will the Pyra even be able to manufacture in high volume if there would be demand?

 

[Ziz]

A lot stuff already have been said, but I have to add my 50 cent...

There's one thing the Pandora was missing (and one of the reasons I never had one), and that's a killer game.

As a reminder, a "killer game" is, like a killer app, a game which is the one game you should have on your console.

For example, Halo or Fable on the original XBOX.

We have the best emulatorsStarcraft.

Open Arena.

And many others.

We have not one killer app. We have many. Plus killer inut devices.

I've never seen such a thing on the Pandora. Its games are mostly open source ports like Tux Racing and emulated classics.

Yes. Everyday I can only play Super Tux Cart and NES games... Please have a look in the repository. We have a LOT of stuff. Yes, many are ports. And this is bad, because? The big plus of the pandora are the input devices and the mobility, not special applications... The Pandora and Pyra are more like a PC than a Gameboy..

Maybe we should do more.

I know it's not anywhere near an easy thing, but it wouldn't hurt to try something.

It wasts time. And it is not easy, it is IMPOSSIBLE.

I don't know, maybe a good racing game (always lacking on smartphones and handhelds, except for Mario Kart-likes) or a FPS (very popular to date).

Oh please! Another FPS! We don't have enough! Believe me: FPS without mouse doesn't work well. How about a mod for Open Arena first, which implements an intelligent new way of controlling a FPS shooter with the Pandora? Why inventing a new wheel, which will be never better thann the existing ones? Keep in mind: Every killer game have to be better than everything the Pandora/Pyra can emulate. So at least better than Need for Speed Hot Pursuit.

This way, we could send people a message, clearly showing "This is what Pyra is capable of, and here's why you can't have it : you don't own one. Yet.".

We would have both quite a benchmark and an original game, attracting more and more gamers.

If the Pyra would want gamers, it should have a x86 cpu. We have benchmarks. N64 emu, DC emu, NDS emu, Opensource games with high end grahics, etc.. The Pyra is not for the mass market!

A console's sales are made on its games, and frankly, I haven't seen anything on the OpenPandora except for some 2D games.

Did you even look?

So how would we do so ?

I'm willing to help as much as I can. But we would need a whole lotta Rosie help.

Maybe we could first try to port a big and powerful engine like Unity.

Maybe we could also make our own.

Maybe the engine could be open source, allowing for more and more devs using and enhancing it.

Yes! Let's make a new engine! There aren't enough yet! It's so easy and fast made in the spare time!

But we need 3D. And a really good one.

No, we need the best of the best of the best, sir!
Why do you think, there is no perfect engine out there yet? Why does so many engines coexist? Why do people live from making engines? This is hard, full time work!

You can always choose only two of "Easiness", "Performance" and "Universality".

If you want an engine, take Ogre and make an optimized render plugin for the Pyra. This is still hard work, but probably much easier than anything else.

I am making some kind of engine for 2 years now. This is incredible hard work, especially if you want to use the specific Pyra hardware features.

Maybe a FPS with modern graphics and some of the good stuff that plays like an older one. Some sort of really fun exclusive puzzle game that isn't available elsewhere would help get some attention.

No, it would't. Nobody will buy a Pyra because of funny puzzlegame or just another shooter.

This may be a little out there, but what about combining elements from different popular game genres? You could have a game with elements of racing and FPSs that also switches over to a puzzle game and other stuff at times. It would require a good story to hold it all together, but that shouldn't be difficult. The protagonist can need to get somewhere fast, then when she gets there she has to shoot her way into a vault or something where she has to solve puzzles.

I feel there's a lack of adventure games and too many FPS.

Throw some adventure stuff into my idea above. I still think keeping FPS elements would be nice. I don't know if there can really be too many games in a genre. You aren't required to play them, but those who like them like variety, or the different experiences.
Another benefit of a game like this made for the Pyra is that it is similar to the Pyra, where it is a little bit of everything. It can be a highly polished tech demo showing off a bunch of stuff. Going with this diverse approach would allow people working on different parts of the game to do their own thing without worrying about what others are doing, while still working together with them on the whole project. I don't know how easy something like this would be to accomplish, but it seems interesting to me. I have no skills to make a game, so maybe it is a dumb idea.

Yes, dumb idea. It is RIDICULOUS.Mixing puzzle, fps, racing and adventure is a HARD task, needs a lot of game making experience and even then it will probably fail.

Can we kill this killer game thread with fire? It will lead to NOTHING! No game. No engine. No community game.

Ziz.

 

[rohezal]

Maybe the Darkmod would be a  good canidate too^^