Jeff Minter On Retrogaming

[TheMinder]

Not a site I have ever visited before, but someone pointed me to an article there and while reading it i saw a click-thru to this Jeff Minter article, including some of his thoughts on retrogaming.

http://www.next-gen.biz/index.php?option=c...0&Itemid=51

Here's a taster :

QUOTE
Nostalgia isn’t what it used to be. It’s true that in the past things were more chaotic, but in truth most of the games were a bit shit.......

 

[Ripster]

Well he is not wrong... a lot of the old games were crap, but guess what so are the majority of the new games, they just look better. Well some of them do anyway. But the classics are the classics... and though the graphics or the animation can't compare to those of today... they were fun to play then... and are still fun to play today.

It just goes to show that you do not need to make a game complex to have fun. Pacman for instance... a directional control device without the need for even one button... probably the all-time most popular arcade game, and the same with Frogger.

Now all we need to the current programmers to do is to create something "NEW" that is simple... fun... and looks great, without stealing from the classic era of gaming. Ok you have the tools now... show us what you got...

 

[Ravnos]

Just read it. He's right. 95% of the games from the old days are total garbage. So are 95% of the games coming out now, though, so it's not much of a reason to dump on retrogaming.

 

[Dzz]

Just read it. He's right. 95% of the games from the old days are total garbage. So are 95% of the games coming out now, though, so it's not much of a reason to dump on retrogaming.

I think the average game today is tons better than the average ancient game, not because of technology but because of budget. I remember buying those old psygnosis games for my Amiga back in the day; almost every single one of those games sucked horribly.

Just my opinion of course, and there were certainly occasional jewels. The only old amiga games I remember really liking were Marble Madness, Bard's Tale, and an early action-rpg called The Faery Tale Advenure. It only takes a few good games to make an impression for a lifetime though.

 

[Dunny]

Just read it. He's right. 95% of the games from the old days are total garbage. So are 95% of the games coming out now, though, so it's not much of a reason to dump on retrogaming.

I think the average game today is tons better than the average ancient game, not because of technology but because of budget. I remember buying those old psygnosis games for my Amiga back in the day; almost every single one of those games sucked horribly.


Well, some of us just pirated the more expensive games. It's quite a common practice - kind of like when you go downloading Amiga disk images for the emulator. And a lot cheaper than paying for crap games

D.

 

[Ripster]

Just read it. He's right. 95% of the games from the old days are total garbage. So are 95% of the games coming out now, though, so it's not much of a reason to dump on retrogaming.

I think the average game today is tons better than the average ancient game, not because of technology but because of budget. I remember buying those old psygnosis games for my Amiga back in the day; almost every single one of those games sucked horribly.

Just my opinion of course, and there were certainly occasional jewels. The only old amiga games I remember really liking were Marble Madness, Bard's Tale, and an early action-rpg called The Faery Tale Advenure. It only takes a few good games to make an impression for a lifetime though.



This would just make me think that the Amiga was not a good gaming device. Though dated... I can still remember playing Dungeons and Dragons on the Mattel Intellivision... and it having more of an affect on me than most current games... I can still hear the sound of the dragon breathing in the next chamber... of the bat shrieking as it chased me out of one. Also games like Sea Battle by Mattell have yet to be repeated... I tried both games it a little while back and it did not have the same impact as it did as a youngster (spoiled by the current graphics)... The only thing that got me my heart pumping like that in the last 10 years was probably playing Zelda on the N64 with surround sound... and realizing the first boss was above me...

 

[WhizzBang]

Just read it. He's right. 95% of the games from the old days are total garbage. So are 95% of the games coming out now, though, so it's not much of a reason to dump on retrogaming.

I agree with this. Maybe Jeff is viewing todays games through rose tinted glasses. The XBox 360 is good example of this 95% rule.

 

[moz]

i agrre with jeffs artitle although i found jeffs games to be rubbish.

dunno why but im always expecting jeff to create and release a game on the gp32/2x

 

[Blah]

Just read it. He's right. 95% of the games from the old days are total garbage. So are 95% of the games coming out now, though, so it's not much of a reason to dump on retrogaming.

I think the average game today is tons better than the average ancient game, not because of technology but because of budget. I remember buying those old psygnosis games for my Amiga back in the day; almost every single one of those games sucked horribly.

Just my opinion of course, and there were certainly occasional jewels. The only old amiga games I remember really liking were Marble Madness, Bard's Tale, and an early action-rpg called The Faery Tale Advenure. It only takes a few good games to make an impression for a lifetime though.


Pfft...some of my favourite games both new and old had a budget of $0.

 

[b._.o._.b]

There is no better gaming than retrogaming, really. Reviews of new games are often demanding on the new toy to be fully used, they need to have better graphics, sound etc. Also they are being influenced by hype and commerce. After a couple of years only the game enthusiasts remain and are very willing to share the gaming diamonds.

Every new era has got some great games, but they are best seen after its games are judged through the eyes of history.

 

[Sphinxter]

Jeff might be just a little bitter from being the only guy who paid for and played, "slamming your own nuts in a drawer repeatedly", clear through all five boss battles to find the weak ending.

Taito Water Ski, Altered Beast, Avenging Spirit... arcade was a golden era, the envelope was pushed, even art of the time was reflected in a pop minimalist phase.

 

[DaveC]

Some ancient retro games that I think are pure art in design and playability:

Space invaders
Asteroids
Pac-Man
Ms. Pac-man
Frogger
Centipede
Missile command
Donkey Kong
Mr Do!
Tempest
Galaga
Q*bert
Qix
Robotron
Defender

 

[Dzz]

Some ancient retro games that I think are pure art in design and playability:

Space invaders
Asteroids
Pac-Man
Ms. Pac-man
Frogger
Centipede
Missile command
Donkey Kong
Mr Do!
Tempest
Galaga
Q*bert
Qix
Robotron
Defender

I agree completely! Amazing how the need to get somebody to feed in another quarter leads to simple addictive gameplay!

 

[Ripster]

Some ancient retro games that I think are pure art in design and playability:

Space invaders
Asteroids
Pac-Man
Ms. Pac-man
Frogger
Centipede
Missile command
Donkey Kong
Mr Do!
Tempest
Galaga
Q*bert
Qix
Robotron
Defender

Can I add Gyruss....

 

[DaveC]

Some ancient retro games that I think are pure art in design and playability:

Space invaders
Asteroids
Pac-Man
Ms. Pac-man
Frogger
Centipede
Missile command
Donkey Kong
Mr Do!
Tempest
Galaga
Q*bert
Qix
Robotron
Defender

I agree completely! Amazing how the need to get somebody to feed in another quarter leads to simple addictive gameplay!


Also while the graphics for these are simple, they are very clean. By that I mean things are hand drawn with pixel art and make every pixel count. That is why i think these games are pretty much ruined when scaled and stretched fractionally or blurred out with a filter.

But yes they are still addictive today, and they play and look great on the GP2X in MAME. Rotate the unit and play un-scaled for best results.

Centipede is great the way the centipedes turn to mushrooms when shot, the poison ones that make them fall, and fleas that make more mushrooms too. Plus you can remove them by shooting as well. The playfield is always different and changing. Genius.

MrDo! is great and has loads of strategy for such a simple looking game. It looks like a Dig-Dug clone at first but it is much more. Cutting paths strategically, sliding and dropping apples at the right time, and knowing when to go for the letters that can give another life. There is alot of depth in there.

But I kind of agree that there is alot of rubbish. The ratio of good to bad was not too great. The Amiga was a good computer for it's day and it had some great art apps. I do agree that most Amiga games were rubbish. Most were duff Atari-ST ports that didn't even use the system by only using half of the colors that they could. This resulted in some ugly, mangy, raspy looking shit. The gameplay was not that great for most things. Other stuff was clones of arcade games. There were tons of Arkanoid clones. I remember seeing Blood Money an R-Type clone and the graphics were good. The game design was god awful though. It was so hard I couldn't get too far even with a cheat mode. It was just cheap deaths. Same with Shadow of the Beast. Great graphics but amounted to timing punches with sprites. There were a few gems in there but you had to do alot of mining and go through alot of ore to find them. Lots of shovelware.

 

[TheMinder]

I don't think Mr Minter was really dumping on retrogaming, I think it's maybe his writing style is a reflection of his personality (for any younger members who have never even heard of him, maybe look at his site : http://www.llamasoft.co.uk/ )

That said I, like most who replied, do basically agree with him - i've revisited things that rocked my world as a child that are unbelievably poor.

I actually disagree with the trapping your nuts aspect of it all though because for me Manic Miner is still possibly one of the best gaming experiences I have ever had.

(I also have to agree with whoever said they never liked any of Mr Minter's games back in the day, although a few years back i did play his new Gridrunner on the PC and that was ok for a quick blast)

 

[Dzz]

But yes they are still addictive today, and they play and look great on the GP2X in MAME. Rotate the unit and play un-scaled for best results.

Arcade Defender is probably my favorite game of all time. I have tried some recreations of those games on various devices but I personally think they suffer greatly from not having the cabinet they were designed for -- especially games like Missile Command, Centiped, and Tempest, which were very physical interactions with a particular controller type not generally available.

Despite their simplicity and ability to be mostly programmed by an individual or small team, a game like Defender was state of the art, carefully considered, and hardly comparable to the "average" C64 or Amiga game of later years... Williams built about a hundred million dollars worth of Defender units.

 

[moz]

Some ancient retro games that I think are pure art in design and playability:

Space invaders
Asteroids
Pac-Man
Ms. Pac-man
Frogger
Centipede
Missile command
Donkey Kong
Mr Do!
Tempest
Galaga
Q*bert
Qix
Robotron
Defender

Can I add Gyruss....


+DigDug

 

[b._.o._.b]

There are certain type of games that were almost perfect thpse days.
I think galaga is perfect because of the slow but steady increase of difficulty and keeping it exciting because of the bonus stages. There has been attempts to improve it (3d, "better" graphics, nice music etc), but it always failed because the game don't need more. More adds distraction, less concentration so less involvement.

There are shooters with fantastic graphics, amazing backgrounds and even more powerups. I don't feel excited when I've reached a next level, but the boost you get from getting a bit further in galaga is much more rewarding. Also the scoringsystem is perfect (only needs 1 more digit

 

[foleyjo]

I think what Jeff Minter was trying to say is Attack of the Mutant Camels is a well known game but is absoulute crap. it is now and it was back then