Is Openpandora Ready...

[craigix]

You probably already have it.

Anyway, yes, we are very ready for the possibility of faulty units.

 

[Poem58]

I'm sorry, I wasn't aware you had official sales figures. Anyway, I said it was no big deal just a curiosity.

Numbers were given in the blog. You mean you don't religiously read back on it on a regular basis to make sure you remember the information? I thought that was a mandatory part of entry into the forum.

Apparently not mandatory, As I have only a few minutes of Linux experience, actually have NOT sought out every detail of this project. I just saw my dream device, went away then returned, pined and then due to a miracle got a last second order and have been waiting since. However, I have not gone back to read things from before my time. Aside from knowing how to play games and run a computer quite well. I have no hacking experience, either hardware or software. I haven't written any code more sophisticated than Basic (from scratch) and Visual Basic 6 (from text book). So there will be TONS of things I don't know that will seem obvious to others. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I can build,network and troubleshoot Windows PC's. Yet beyond that I have little experience (Linux,Mac etc.) Which is actually something else about this device that excites me. A Whole new experience that will undoubtedly allow me to learn new things as I go. (Learning about repositories, linux distributions, probably things like command line usage etc.)

 

[WizardStan]

A Whole new experience that will undoubtedly allow me to learn new things as I go. (Learning about repositories, linux distributions, probably things like command line usage etc.)

If done properly (and from some of the videos, it is being done properly) this new experience should feel very similar to the new experience you would get the first time you use a Wii, PSP, XBox, or any other console. Seriously, there is nothing special about Linux in and of itself that warrants awe and anticipation. There is no more for an inexperienced user to learn than if they were picking up any other consumer intended device, if they don't want to. If you do want to, then I commend you, and hope I might be of some assistance when the time comes.
edit: I would also go so far as to suggest that if you want to learn about the details of linux (like repositories and CLIs) I would recommend installing it to a desktop. The Pandora is its own beast, with some quirks cleared and a new set in its place. There's not likely to be much use for the standard repositories, and the GUI should be well enough developed that the CLI could be more hindrance than help.

 

[fiori_musicali]

Seriously, there is nothing special about Linux in and of itself that warrants awe and anticipation. There is no more for an inexperienced user to learn than if they were picking up any other consumer intended device, if they don't want to.

I must disagree. Even after 10 years of more active using of UNIX-based systems (RedHat, Slackware, Debian, Ubuntu, Back|Track and OpenBSD) the power of CLI, regular expressions, utilization of standard I/O, the concept of piping and the UNIX philosophy still bring a smile on my face every time I am able to resolve an issue through elegant use of seemingly simple tools. If you have only used Windows or MS-DOS before and are interested in computers in general and more specifically the inner workings of an OS, there's much to anticipate when you delve into Linux.



To Poem58:

edit: I would also go so far as to suggest that if you want to learn about the details of linux (like repositories and CLIs) I would recommend installing it to a desktop. The Pandora is its own beast, with some quirks cleared and a new set in its place. [ ... ]

This is a hint worth taking. Nothing teaches you better than safely setting up Linux on a dedicated box; toggling switches, editing configurations, using a little imagination ("I wonder if this would work..."), messing it all up, toying around with the bootloaders, init scripts and single-user mode in desperate attempt to fix it, trashing it further, and then starting the whole process over again, every time with more experience than the last. But always have at least one computer in a fully functioning order (Internet access), because 99% of the "completely" trashed systems are still recoverable and hacking them back together teaches more than a re-install.

Also, you may want to steer clear of Ubuntu. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way worse than that particular distro. I give this advice based on the impression that I got from your post, which suggests you're interested in learning the system, not just clicking around on a distro that mostly treats the user like an incompetetent idiot.

 

[WizardStan]

I must disagree. Even after 10 years of more active using of UNIX-based systems (RedHat, Slackware, Debian, Ubuntu, Back|Track and OpenBSD) the power of CLI, regular expressions, utilization of standard I/O, the concept of piping and the UNIX philosophy still bring a smile on my face every time I am able to resolve an issue through elegant use of seemingly simple tools. If you have only used Windows or MS-DOS before and are interested in computers in general and more specifically the inner workings of an OS, there's much to anticipate when you delve into Linux.

None of which you needed to learn to use to make use of the system, I'm sure, which was the point I was getting at: it's very easy these days to use a lot of Linux distros (assuming it has already been setup for you, as the Pandora will be) without learning the inner workings, and only pick up the CL tools if you really want to. The corollary to that being that it isn't Linux that is "scary" and needs to be learned, but the command line tools, tools which you don't actually need for the basic computing tasks most users have.

 

[dflemstr]

I must disagree. Even after 10 years of more active using of UNIX-based systems (RedHat, Slackware, Debian, Ubuntu, Back|Track and OpenBSD) the power of CLI, regular expressions, utilization of standard I/O, the concept of piping and the UNIX philosophy still bring a smile on my face every time I am able to resolve an issue through elegant use of seemingly simple tools. If you have only used Windows or MS-DOS before and are interested in computers in general and more specifically the inner workings of an OS, there's much to anticipate when you delve into Linux.

None of which you needed to learn to use to make use of the system, I'm sure, which was the point I was getting at: it's very easy these days to use a lot of Linux distros (assuming it has already been setup for you, as the Pandora will be) without learning the inner workings, and only pick up the CL tools if you really want to. The corollary to that being that it isn't Linux that is "scary" and needs to be learned, but the command line tools, tools which you don't actually need for the basic computing tasks most users have.

I actually don't think that the Pandora will be usable without the CLI entirely. Some emulators lack launcher GUIs (judging by the videos seen so far), for example, so you'd need to launch them with various options on the CLI to get them working (like, for instance, you would with QEMU). This can of course change over time.

BTW, as much as I love and use the Linux CLI, I must say that it's rather messy. Bash is not a well-structured language for instance; it contains very weird constructs just because it has to adhere this-or-that 40 year old KSH UNIX standard.
For instance, who came up with the brilliant idea to create the "[" command? Wouldn't it have been easier to include comparison in the Bash core? And why use operators like "-ne" instead of "!="? Why the awkward "case" syntax? Why have various "${bla%a}" constructs? etc.

Also, the "RTFM" principle also screwed up. Why not just create some XML metadata file for every UNIX command containing all of the options, their syntax, and what they do, that then are rwead by the shell, so that you can get code completion, command validation, and live desciptions of commands like you can get in other scripting languages? UNIX programs stick to their ideals, but they are way outdated. The CLI experience could be a LOT better.

Anyways, back on topic.
Judging by how ED's servers have performed so far, performance shouldn't be a problem. I sincerely hope that there are PHP accelerators like APC and so on active for this board, however (I've enabled it on the SpaceRTS, ehmm I mean QuantumDrive forums so I never have laggs) because the server is going DOWN if it's running interpreted PHP when the boom comes. Compile anything and it becomes 8 times faster .
Also, I really hope that some of the more important sites could be rewritten using Java JSP/Servlets, again for the speed, just because it would be a pity if some server goes down just because you use interpreted scripts in the backend.

 

[Poem58]

A Whole new experience that will undoubtedly allow me to learn new things as I go. (Learning about repositories, linux distributions, probably things like command line usage etc.)

If you do want to, then I commend you, and hope I might be of some assistance when the time comes.
edit: I would also go so far as to suggest that if you want to learn about the details of linux (like repositories and CLIs) I would recommend installing it to a desktop. The Pandora is its own beast, with some quirks cleared and a new set in its place. There's not likely to be much use for the standard repositories, and the GUI should be well enough developed that the CLI could be more hindrance than help.

Yes, I want to dig deeper into what I can do with my Pandora, I know the best way is to do a desktop install but that is not an option. My desktop literally exploded in a very bad power supply failure. Fried the Board and Drive as well. I have the ability to piece my neighbors system (comparable to my destroyed PC) and am working on that now. However, the desktop and the laptop will stay windows for my wife to have access to. I could dual boot linux for the desktop, but it would have no internet access, and my laptop has to remain as it is for now.
The whole reason I was able to convince my wife to let me get the Pandora was the fact that it would be "just for me" with the security of knowing all my tinkering would be on it, not the system she relies on. From what I gather just in the little time I have read. I have a lot to learn and there are a lot of people here who are wiling and able to help us linux newbs as we go along. So your offer is appreciated. Hopefully, once I am familiar with the system, and the tools are readily available. I may try to learn my first new programming language since MS basic!
I wouldn't probably get good enough to make anything useful until probably Pandora 2 or 3...but that's the fun of having this thing in the first place. Besides, just like my first computer (Spectravideo SVI-328) this bad boy will be mine, and I like the idea of writing programs on MY computer and do what I want to do. (Used to get a kick out of just drawing lines, and making flashing things...gosh I hope there's some form of Basic programming for this thing)
Anyway, to sum up. I think a lot of the people who preordered who are like myself will appreciate the easy part of using the Pandora, but are looking forward to seeing what else we can learn. As long as those of you in the know have patience with us. I think we may actually learn a lot.

Thanks.

 

[rabidpoobear]

gosh I hope there's some form of Basic programming for this thing)
Anyway, to sum up. I think a lot of the people who preordered who are like myself will appreciate the easy part of using the Pandora, but are looking forward to seeing what else we can learn. As long as those of you in the know have patience with us. I think we may actually learn a lot.

There will probably be some form of BASIC, but if you're interested in programming on the Pandora I suggest you look into Python. It's a very user-friendly language and it's also powerful as well.
I've been writing Python programs for about 7 years, and I will be writing tutorials for the Pandora. Python also works on Windows, and most applications can be completely cross-platform with no changes, so you could play around with it right now in Windows while you wait, and all your gained knowledge would transfer to Linux and Pandora. http://www.python.org

 

[Poem58]

gosh I hope there's some form of Basic programming for this thing)
Anyway, to sum up. I think a lot of the people who preordered who are like myself will appreciate the easy part of using the Pandora, but are looking forward to seeing what else we can learn. As long as those of you in the know have patience with us. I think we may actually learn a lot.

There will probably be some form of BASIC, but if you're interested in programming on the Pandora I suggest you look into Python. It's a very user-friendly language and it's also powerful as well.
I've been writing Python programs for about 7 years, and I will be writing tutorials for the Pandora. Python also works on Windows, and most applications can be completely cross-platform with no changes, so you could play around with it right now in Windows while you wait, and all your gained knowledge would transfer to Linux and Pandora. http://www.python.org

That's fine, but the reason I was interested in Basic is only that I had a few simple graphics routines I used on every 80's computer I came across and would love to be able to do that again. I was never good enough to make my own games (at least not graphics based) the most advanced game I ever did was for High School. I was paired with a football player who agreed to write the trivia questions and answers if I would make the football trivia game. I spent nearly 2 weeks morning, lunch and class making the game move your team up field 10 yards for correct answers and back 10 for wrong answers. Then if you got enough answers to score a touchdown you were made to play a random ending game where you either kicked a extra point kick to win or it could be blocked. If it was blocked, then you could recover and score or they could score. It was the most complex and hardest thing I ever wrote.

I have looked at some of these other languages online. But they are so unfamiliar to me since I have been out of it so long that it will take me from scratch to learn. Which I hope will be easily done ON the Pandora. Then I will be happy.

 

[Prometheus]

Well, chances are that you could emulate the 80s computers and write stuff on them in that form, at the very least. Not quite the same thing, I know, but a possibility.

 

[WizardStan]

Yes, I want to dig deeper into what I can do with my Pandora, I know the best way is to do a desktop install but that is not an option. My desktop literally exploded in a very bad power supply failure. Fried the Board and Drive as well. I have the ability to piece my neighbors system (comparable to my destroyed PC) and am working on that now. However, the desktop and the laptop will stay windows for my wife to have access to. I could dual boot linux for the desktop, but it would have no internet access, and my laptop has to remain as it is for now.

Have you considered a live CD? It's a bootable CD (or DVD, or flash drive, in some cases) which lets you mess around with Linux without actually doing anything with the hard drive: everything resides in memory. It'd keep you from having to dual boot, but still give the real world feel that you can learn from.

 

[Pleng]

Have you considered a live CD? It's a bootable CD (or DVD, or flash drive, in some cases) which lets you mess around with Linux without actually doing anything with the hard drive: everything resides in memory. It'd keep you from having to dual boot, but still give the real world feel that you can learn from.

Or alternatively you could use VMWare or a similar app to try out the OS without even needing to reboot.

 

[dflemstr]

Have you considered a live CD? It's a bootable CD (or DVD, or flash drive, in some cases) which lets you mess around with Linux without actually doing anything with the hard drive: everything resides in memory. It'd keep you from having to dual boot, but still give the real world feel that you can learn from.

Or alternatively you could use VMWare or a similar app to try out the OS without even needing to reboot.

..VirtualBox being the free alternative to VMWare

 

[bzar]

Have you considered a live CD? It's a bootable CD (or DVD, or flash drive, in some cases) which lets you mess around with Linux without actually doing anything with the hard drive: everything resides in memory. It'd keep you from having to dual boot, but still give the real world feel that you can learn from.

Or alternatively you could use VMWare or a similar app to try out the OS without even needing to reboot.

Or you could use wubi, which is packed into at least ubuntu.

 

[greendots]

You can also try out linux (Ubuntu) in a web app with out installing or downloading anything. The site hosts a temporary virtual machine for you to log in to as well as ssh. Its pretty slow but it might be worth a try to someone new to linux.

http://www.click2try.com/catalog/Linux/Ubuntu-Desktop/details

 

[God Ginrai]

You can also try out linux (Ubuntu) in a web app with out installing or downloading anything. The site hosts a temporary virtual machine for you to log in to as well as ssh. Its pretty slow but it might be worth a try to someone new to linux.

http://www.click2try.com/catalog/Linux/Ubuntu-Desktop/details

I agree with this post from earlier:

Also, you may want to steer clear of Ubuntu. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way worse than that particular distro. I give this advice based on the impression that I got from your post, which suggests you're interested in learning the system, not just clicking around on a distro that mostly treats the user like an incompetetent idiot.

-God Ginrai

 

[Poem58]

I tried a live CD (might have been updated Knoppix not sure), but due to my laptop hardware I guess, I had NO internet access. It couldn't find my wireless.
With the limited space on my laptop as well as the fact that I have to share it with my wife and my son, I have little time and space to try the other options.
When my desktop was still functioning, I did have a dual boot situation. Both different versions of windows, so it would have been simple for me to have thrown on a Linux distro to play with but at that time..nearly 3 years ago. I had no interest in it (other than trying Knoppix many years ago version 3 I think).

So for me the Pandora will be it. Since it is incapable of running a useful version of Windows and will be Linux. that is how I will get some experience. Maybe learn to program again in a more updated and useful language etc. It will be the only computer I wil have exclusive access to 100% of the time. While I like the idea of being able to write those simple programs in basic using an emulator I hope something is ported that will allow me to use the Pandora's resolution etc. Someone had posted a while back that there was a Basic program that would likely be ported. If not then I guess I use the old computers and learn something new to get the Pandora's res etc. In any case, I'm excited. So much to learn, so much fun to have. even when a Pandora 2 comes along I can see using the Pandora 1 for many many years to come.

 

[bzar]

You can also try out linux (Ubuntu) in a web app with out installing or downloading anything. The site hosts a temporary virtual machine for you to log in to as well as ssh. Its pretty slow but it might be worth a try to someone new to linux.

http://www.click2try.com/catalog/Linux/Ubuntu-Desktop/details

I agree with this post from earlier:

Also, you may want to steer clear of Ubuntu. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way worse than that particular distro. I give this advice based on the impression that I got from your post, which suggests you're interested in learning the system, not just clicking around on a distro that mostly treats the user like an incompetetent idiot.

-God Ginrai

I don't. I'm using ubuntu right now. While I like to learn about linux, which I have, I also like things to work without having to tinker with them when I'm trying to get some work done. I like to choose when I want to learn about the system and when I just want to use it. Ubuntu gives me that choice. Now I understand that some people don't like the various hacks in ubuntu, such as the mangled-to-oblivion pulseaudio, but I wouldn't count being easy to use against ubuntu. I like the easy proprietary driver installation and even some of the wizards. Don't get me wrong, I fire up ye olde terminal and emacs (gnu) daily, but I get to choose my battles. I think ubuntu is a good first system where you can quickly get accustomed to package management and all that. Later you'll bump into the command line and learn stuff about it. Bottom-up learning can be very exhausting in linux, which is why I recommend a top-down approach to my friends who are interested.

All these are a matter of opinion, suit yourselves

 

[dflemstr]

I tried a live CD (might have been updated Knoppix not sure), but due to my laptop hardware I guess, I had NO internet access. It couldn't find my wireless.

Wireless drivers have gotten a lot of attention since Linux version 2.6.24 (that came out about a year ago IIRC). So if your laptop used a wireless connection, you might want to check out a newer live CD.

Someone had posted a while back that there was a Basic program that would likely be ported. If not then I guess I use the old computers and learn something new to get the Pandora's res etc. In any case, I'm excited. So much to learn, so much fun to have. even when a Pandora 2 comes along I can see using the Pandora 1 for many many years to come.

Well, as you have put it yourself, BASIC isn't a very modern language.

I am sure that you would have more fun and learn more about how modern programming works if you'd start using Python or a similar language. Trust me, the learning curve is minimal, and Python is an ideal language to get started with Linux programming, especially with PyGame or PyQt (the former a game library, and the latter an UI/general purpose library that is the awesome ).

If you're used to VisualBasic or something similar where you have a Form that you drag Buttons onto and doubleclick to add code, etc, there's always Mono and VisualBasic.NET that you can use (To all others: No, there's no patent issues with using Mono and you should really embrace it as a good runtime, because it IS easy to use and damn fast. No flamewars, politics, or personal biased opinions please). In fact, you can download MonoDevelop for your computer right now without issue and try out how it feels on your Windows computer (Google it).

 

[God Ginrai]

You can also try out linux (Ubuntu) in a web app with out installing or downloading anything. The site hosts a temporary virtual machine for you to log in to as well as ssh. Its pretty slow but it might be worth a try to someone new to linux.

http://www.click2try.com/catalog/Linux/Ubuntu-Desktop/details

I agree with this post from earlier:

Also, you may want to steer clear of Ubuntu. Nothing rubbed me the wrong way worse than that particular distro. I give this advice based on the impression that I got from your post, which suggests you're interested in learning the system, not just clicking around on a distro that mostly treats the user like an incompetetent idiot.

-God Ginrai

I don't. I'm using ubuntu right now. While I like to learn about linux, which I have, I also like things to work without having to tinker with them when I'm trying to get some work done. I like to choose when I want to learn about the system and when I just want to use it. Ubuntu gives me that choice. Now I understand that some people don't like the various hacks in ubuntu, such as the mangled-to-oblivion pulseaudio, but I wouldn't count being easy to use against ubuntu. I like the easy proprietary driver installation and even some of the wizards. Don't get me wrong, I fire up ye olde terminal and emacs (gnu) daily, but I get to choose my battles. I think ubuntu is a good first system where you can quickly get accustomed to package management and all that. Later you'll bump into the command line and learn stuff about it. Bottom-up learning can be very exhausting in linux, which is why I recommend a top-down approach to my friends who are interested.

All these are a matter of opinion, suit yourselves

Funny, I can work in Fedora without having to tinker as well. Also, Fedora doesn't treat me like I'm an incompetent dolt. I've heard that the same is true for SUSE.

-God Ginrai