IPC2 and P2 keyborard wars

[Amnykon]

Keyboard layout to be determined by community.

How do we want the keyboard layout?

normal

  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

   ^	   _	   ^

  < >  ()  =  ()  < >

   V	   _	   V

_ q w e r t y u i o p _

 _ a s d f g h j k l _

  _ z x c v b n m _ _

- _ _ _  space  _ _ _ -


shift

  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

   ^	   _	   ^

  < >  ()  =  ()  < >

   V	   _	   V

_ Q W E R T Y U I O P _

 _ A S D F G H J K L _

  _ Z X C V B N M _ _

- _ _ _  space  _ _ _ -


function

  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

   ^	   _	   ^

  < >  ()  =  ()  < >

   V	   _	   V

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

 _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

  _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

- _ _ _  space  _ _ _ -

What are the other keys we would like?


Do we want to shift the main keyboard to the right or to the left to have two columns of keys on the side, or keep it in the middle?


OPT how many shoulder buttons will there be?


If there are four, I would recommend using them as both a controller input and the shift, alt, ctrl, and funct keys.


Let the keyboard wars begin!

 

[_wb_]

I just posted here:


http://boards.openpa...500#entry180953

 

[_wb_]

Here is another proposal. (not easy to get the ascii art right, each time I do a preview it seems to add or remove spaces at random, so I'm gonna try without preview)

normal

(SHIFT)								   (CTRL)

		 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  0

	 ^			  START			  ^

   <   >	  (O)	 =	 (O)	  <   >

	 V			  SELECT			 V

ESC q   w   e   r   t   y   u   i   o   p  <-

TAB  a   s   d   f   g   h   j   k   l   \

SHIFT  z   x   c   v   b   n   m   ;   '	 |

Fn CTRL META ALT   space		 ,   .   /  <-'


shift

(SHIFT)								   (CTRL)

		 !  @  #  $  %  ^  &  *  (  )

	 ^			  START			  ^

   <   >	  (O)	 =	 (O)	  <   >

	 V			  SELECT			 V

ESC Q   W   E   R   T   Y   U   I   O   P  DEL

TAB  A   S   D   F   G   H   J   K   L   |

SHIFT  Z   X   C   V   B   N   M   :   "	 |

FL CTRL META ALT   space		 <   >   ?  <-'


function

(SHIFT)								   (CTRL)

		 ~  `  ’  €  £  ¥  ¢  PrtScn ScrLk Pause

	 ^			  START			  ^

   <   >	  (O)	 =	 (O)	  <   >

	 V			  SELECT			 V

F1  F2  F3  F4  F5  F6  F7  F8  F9  F10 F11 F12

INS  §   Ü   ß   °   ¿   ¡   _   -   +   =

CAPSL  Ö   Ä   Ç   Æ   µ   {   }   [   ]	 |

Fn CTRL META ALT   space	  wifi dim  bri <-'

 

[_wb_]

OK, the post editor sucks if you want to get ASCII drawings right,so I'm just gonna put a screenshot of my text editor here:

 

[craigix]

It's worth also thinking about this being a universal controller, that you might want some extra keys to do special things.


Functions which would be helpful with the Raspberry Pi or USB ARM PCs, Pandora2 etc.

 

[ibisum]

I have nothing to add to this thread except this file, in case anyone wants to use it as a scratchpad...


http://primitur.at/pandora3_keyboard_layout_scratchpad.svg

 

[_wb_]

What kind of special things? It should be something universal, because you don't want keys that have a special function that doesn't apply. E.g. if the P2 still has an analog volume wheel (which I hope!), it would suck to have volume buttons on its keyboard just because they are useful for some other device.


Also, could you tell how many shoulder buttons there are? If there are 4 instead of 2, it makes a difference for the keyboard layout design.

 

[Binky]

@_wb_'s picture


I'd drop the separate shift and control keys.


I'd also suggest that any device-specific functions (mode change for iCP), wifi/brightness/et for pandora should be accessed with the Pandora(meta) key


We need four lists of actions/keys:


unshifted, common use


shifted, more common use (these two should be similar to full size keyboards


with Fn

Heres a nice temple to printout and play with

 

[Grench]

It's worth also thinking about this being a universal controller, that you might want some extra keys to do special things.


Functions which would be helpful with the Raspberry Pi or USB ARM PCs, Pandora2 etc.

I realize you're quite a ways down this path - but is there any reason you put 10 buttons across the top instead of 12? F1-F12 all in a row would have been nice.


That would have allowed for unshifted mapping of ~,1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,0,del on that top row.


Speaking of tilde ~ Lets get that one and / out in an un-shifted position so it is easier to put in command line stuff. I.e. the keys that we use the most should be easier to get to. This list should include, at least, (~,/,,,',TAB,SPACE,DEL,BS,.,@,CTRL,SHIFT,FN,ENTER,) I use those keys a -lot-.


Binky - shift and control MUST exist as keys on the keyboard and not just on the shoulder buttons. Shoulder buttons get routinely re-mapped to whatever application needs them - switch applications and suddenly you can't type 'Hi!'.


CraigIX - any chance there are four total shoulder buttons - two on each side this time? Is there any chance these are actual buttons instead of large chunks of the outer case that move to trigger switches?


The two big buttons on the front corners - lets use those well.


Front right - Enter.


Front left - Shift.


_wb_ - putting all of the shifts (shift, ctrl, fn) all in one corner may be aesthetically pleasing, but it's a bit of a nightmare for use.


I'll see if I can find some time to build a proposed keyboard layout tonight. There are lots of good ideas above - if we all work together we can get to something the meets 90+% of everyone's needs.

 

[craigix]

If 4 can be done it will, but don't count on it, we're very limited by space.


The same reason goes for the number keys.

 

[gadgetoid]

Will release a vector when I get home.


And there's also http://www.icontrolpad.com/icpii/icp2-outline-multiple.png

 

[craigix]

When I said custom keys, I mean things like Media playing keys etc.

 

[ShleeDragon]

With the primary/secondary keys painted on the physical keys... I wouldn't have a problem with the META key opening up a purely on screen representation


The keyboard image would allow you to tap on the screen to toggle the ALT set of keys or press the button on the physical keyboard.


Craig: Can you tell us what the current design for the keyboard is?

 

[ShleeDragon]

P1 for comparison:

 

[_wb_]

Grench: what applications are using the shoulder buttons in a way that causes problems? Of course emulators of consoles that have shoulder buttons use them, but then you don't need them for typing anyway. The only non-game/emu program I know that uses the shoulder buttons is Rockbox, and I don't think you can minimize it (or at least I haven't found a way to do that), so it doesn't matter.


I'd still keep the extra shift and ctrl keys for easy table-top finger typing, but in handheld thumb typing mode, using the shoulder buttons is much better. So there is no put those extra shift/ctrl keys in a very accessible location - it's ok if they're clustered in the bottom-left corner together with Fn. Also, unless there are many Fn-ALT-something or Fn-META-something shortcuts, it doesn't matter that META and ALT are also in that cluster. Most shortcuts are CTRL-something, CTRL-SHIFT-something, ALT-something or CTRL-ALT-something, where something is often an F-key so there's usually an implicit Fn there (but I suppose Fn remains a dead key so you don't have to press it simultaneously). So maybe it's better to put ALT in an easier spot, maybe next to Fn. SHIFT and CTRL are very convenient in shortcut combos when they're shoulder buttons.


I agree that device-specific custom keys would be best to be META key combos, and perhaps some on-screen icons would be best for that.

 

[erico]

a bit off topic _wb_, but the colors you have on text and background of your text editor are really good, were they default or did you make them?

 

[craigix]

The design allows for backlighting on the keys, but we can only do this if we exceed the $150k goal as it's complex and expensive to get right.

 

[ShleeDragon]

There is more than enough free space for all of the keys.... we can really throw some of them away.. Why do we need all of the currencies "dollour/pound/frank/Mark" symbols?!


I don't know how many of those international symbols are more important than the others.

 

[craigix]

Because money symbols are one of the most used?


Do you really think people in the UK never use the £ symbol?


I'd bet it's more used than {}[]|; etc.

 

[ShleeDragon]

Because money symbols are one of the most used?


Do you really think people in the UK never use the £ symbol?


I'd bet it's more used than {}[]|; etc.

You could have a dedicated money key which is remappable?


If you're using bash.. pipe is pretty important