introducing myself (with some specific questions!)

[Daniel Burk]

I decided randomly to consider purchasing this, a while back when I stumbled upon this the thing that drove me away was that it is armed based, so my memory is that tablets can not even run something like windows/desktop, so it would just be a android device with keyboard and controls (still quite a nice thing). Part of me was thinking recently to get the GPD win because I can just port all my stuff on that and play portable high quality games! But after reexamining this device has some neat utility possibilities and the layout really sets it apart, I think I can actually accurately type on a table making it a nice mini laptop. Just want to mention the GPD pocket really bothered me with that keyboard design, the WASD is attrocious, so if anyone wants to comment if you can actually use WASD let me know!

So I think I have learned also you can most likely get windows apps (at least a decent ammount) to work on this. I have a 1.5 ghz duel core laptop and so does the pyra. The only thing I am unsure of is the graphics/gpu, I tried to look it up, but I can not seem to figure out its frequency, and maybe compare it to my laptop to get an idea what it would not be able to do. I am actually thinking this could handle Warhammer total war perhaps 0_o o_0. If not, then Shogun 2 probably would operate.

Also whenever I think of a small device I start thinking about being able to use data wherever I go, I am not a fan of attaching a dongle that would look like a seimis twin on a small device and thus one other reason why I am hesitating to get a GPD win right now. How would I know what carriers would support this, it has a sim card slot so I assume any carrier that is in my area that sells sim card would suffice? What I am hoping is that I can literally use this for data and all that and thus would not need to buy those modems, or be limited to my house. I have researched this a bit but it would take a long time to research this myself (I want to play battletoads damnit!) so anything that could simply it a bit would be helpful. Lastly, from reading the latest news this could be two months from being released, so should I preorder soon, or just wait until it is actually being released? If it is going to be a while for someone new like me then maybe I should just get the GPD win for now, I want to play handheld battle toads damnit!

In short, I want this to do more than just play battle toads, to actually replace a full sized modem in a house, and be able to lay down at the beach and do everything in this little box. Also for once I want to buy a electronic that is not made in china, just one time guys, k? Also I have some business use for this potentially, so the data/modem question is most important. This is the dream device I have envisioned!

edit: I probably should not use my real name?

 

[Eight Bit]

Warhammer total war perhaps 0_o o_0. If not, then Shogun 2 probably would operate.

The Pyra will not play recent AAA games unless they're for ARM/Linux and unless EvilDragon shoves out an X86 CPU board. Exagear can only do so much.
Expect it to play 1000's of emulator games up to N64 and PSP really well though, as well as a lot of modern open source and indie games released for ARM linux.
In due time, maybe some one will release an Android OS image for the Pyra opening up a whole new library of stuff.

Pyra can be your always-on portable data carrier and consumer for sure. Use it to browse the web, listen to music, watch video's, play games. I guess it can be a Wi-Fi hotspot or cloud server too... Maybe stuff like that is already in the debian repository.

First things first, getting the machine out there!

*Massages Ed's shoulders*

 

[levi]

Regarding running windows games, you could do that, but based on my experience with the Pandora thus far, I've never bothered to set up dosbox (even the version with glide graphics) to try out things, although that's probably because I've never been a big PC gamer. With ptitseb porting game engines we've had access to a lot of games that are probably too demanding to be emulated on such an old single core processor, such as Serious Sam 1+2. Maybe the Pyra with it's dual cores and improved efficiency, and hopefully faster clock speed will allow us to emulate things like that, but to be honest I've been kept entertained enough by open source games like Oolite or Hydra Castle Labyrinth most recently, or emulators for old consoles up to N64/PSone. I'm really just hoping for more of the same with the Pyra.

With such ports, WASD isn't an issue because they're normally modified at source to use the arrow keys which map to the d-pad. You can use WASD, but I suspect you're more likely to get lost on almost any thumb typing keyboard, if you know what I mean. By touch, it's all a lot of keys that are all alike, and if your hand pivots slightly and starts hitting 2<tab>qw for example you might not notice immediately, while on a full sized keyboard you'd have a much better idea that you've drifted. Dosbox can probably be configured to map WASD onto the d-pad if you like.

You'll need to use dosbox or some other emulator to run windows games by the way, because this processor runs ARM code, not x86/x64 instructions natively. Anything that has source code and can be compiled natively will likely run better than things that need to go through a layer of emulation. Maybe I'm being overly pessimistic, TrashyMG made some videos of the devboard running some quite impressive games under emulation, which I'm sure someone here can dig out if they're at all useful.

But yeah, business use like office apps are well catered for with Libreoffice and Abiword and similar, and you can always browse the web on the go.

And I wouldn't worry too much about using your real name. It's common for us here to use pseudonyms, but it's not really the sort of forum where you need to hide behind a nickname, unless you're planning to make a nuisance of yourself.

 

[FaeMinx]

I decided randomly to consider purchasing this, a while back when I stumbled upon this the thing that drove me away was that it is armed based, so my memory is that tablets can not even run something like windows/desktop, so it would just be a android device with keyboard and controls (still quite a nice thing). Part of me was thinking recently to get the GPD win because I can just port all my stuff on that and play portable high quality games! But after reexamining this device has some neat utility possibilities and the layout really sets it apart, I think I can actually accurately type on a table making it a nice mini laptop. Just want to mention the GPD pocket really bothered me with that keyboard design, the WASD is attrocious, so if anyone wants to comment if you can actually use WASD let me know!

So I think I have learned also you can most likely get windows apps (at least a decent ammount) to work on this. I have a 1.5 ghz duel core laptop and so does the pyra. The only thing I am unsure of is the graphics/gpu, I tried to look it up, but I can not seem to figure out its frequency, and maybe compare it to my laptop to get an idea what it would not be able to do. I am actually thinking this could handle Warhammer total war perhaps 0_o o_0. If not, then Shogun 2 probably would operate.

Also whenever I think of a small device I start thinking about being able to use data wherever I go, I am not a fan of attaching a dongle that would look like a seimis twin on a small device and thus one other reason why I am hesitating to get a GPD win right now. How would I know what carriers would support this, it has a sim card slot so I assume any carrier that is in my area that sells sim card would suffice? What I am hoping is that I can literally use this for data and all that and thus would not need to buy those modems, or be limited to my house. I have researched this a bit but it would take a long time to research this myself (I want to play battletoads damnit!) so anything that could simply it a bit would be helpful. Lastly, from reading the latest news this could be two months from being released, so should I preorder soon, or just wait until it is actually being released? If it is going to be a while for someone new like me then maybe I should just get the GPD win for now, I want to play handheld battle toads damnit!

In short, I want this to do more than just play battle toads, to actually replace a full sized modem in a house, and be able to lay down at the beach and do everything in this little box. Also for once I want to buy a electronic that is not made in china, just one time guys, k? Also I have some business use for this potentially, so the data/modem question is most important. This is the dream device I have envisioned!

edit: I probably should not use my real name?

Ok, I'll let some of the more involved chaps answer you more completely... But let me begin with this:

The Pyra will primarily be a Linux device... Running a Debian distribution. As far as I know there will be no Android out of the box, but I'm pretty sure some form of Android will become available sooner or later. As for gaming, the only games you will be playing on this device will be:

1) those you play through some form of emulation the Pyra is capable of.
2) those that have been open sourced AND ported to the Pyra. (With a few exceptions)
3) those that are available on the Debian arm repo.
...
4) Games that are already available for the Pandora, that are then ported to the Pyra.

I would suggest using Google with search terms like these:

"Linux Vs Windows, which os should I choose?"
- so you can get an idea of the differences and similarities between the two operating systems.

"Debian arm repo"
- to see what software will be available to you out of the box... Also check the Pyra repo.

"Open source windows games"
- to see which of your games even have the potential of being ported to the Pyra in the future.

Not to dampen your enthusiasm for the Pyra, but I suspect that a 'GPD Win' which you can WiFi tether to your phone (for data while out and about... You can even keep your phone in your pocket)... Would be a better fit for you gaming wise...
I can't vouch for the Win though, I never got one. I have a Pandora and am patiently waiting for the Pyra to be available from Ed's dragonbox online store.

P.s. There is no substitute for doing personal research. Getting other people to do things for you and relying on information that is fed to you through others is tantamount to conditioning yourself into having a disability... You will also be priming yourself as an ideal target for opportunists.

By enabling such parasites (or, should I say... Co-dependency), you encourage further opportunistic behaviour and make the world a worse off place for everyone...

So... Please be considerate towards the rest of us... Be a 'balanced' gamer... and do your research!



Edit: ooh.. a double ninja. =O. O =

Sent from my Moto G (4) using Tapatalk

 

[Daniel Burk]

So is this going to be buggy for months when it is released, waiting for optimization, hardward working. This is probably going to be released two months from now. So what I am trying to figure out if I would save money by not getting the GPD win. What I am thinking is based on a gpd vs pyra thread on here. but that was made a long time ago, what would have changed now? The GPD win is the short and easy way to playing battletoads on a hand held. This would not be me spending spare moey on, every dollar has to count.

 

[Failbert]

So is this going to be buggy for months when it is released, waiting for optimization, hardward working. This is probably going to be released two months from now. So what I am trying to figure out if I would save money by not getting the GPD win. What I am thinking is based on a gpd vs pyra thread on here. but that was made a long time ago, what would have changed now? The GPD win is the short and easy way to playing battletoads on a hand held. This would not be me spending spare moey on, every dollar has to count.

Welcome to the forums, Daniel!

I also am excited for the Pyra as an emulation handheld (among other things), and hope to play some classics I didn't have, and Battletoads in the list. Especially playing them in the sun, on the beach.

Also, I think the posters above have done a good job laying down the basics about whether a pyra is good for You or not- or perhaps gave the right directions to look for more info.

I can't compare the project to GPD because I've never seen neither a gpd win, or gpd pocket in the wild, and I am actually not that educated in what's "under the hood" of the Pyra, but about readiness of the project, I think that...:

Bugs and incompleteness: The Pyra team and community have a professional approach and thoroughly test every aspect, some prototypes are already produced today, functioning, and serving optimization of various kinds, and from what I've seen don't show any catastrophical failure (like many kickstarter projects turn out). I wouldn't guess it'd be annoyingly buggy, BUT I believe it will be for a time incomplete with graphical stuff, like some movie decoding and some 3D graphics (unless I am mistaken- please correct me).

Timeframe: Very important: The Pyra will NOT be ready in two months! That's just a running forum joke, I am guessing You read through the news threads too quickly Purchasing the Pyra is like a downpayment to prepare production. If You want to purchase, then it's better for You if You can make happiness out of small, technical, sometimes in-depth updates about this production, and have a little sense of pride out of being part of the avant-garde open-source hardware movement

Please read on a little more on what has been posted above- I can already tell that the Pyra is going to be a quality product ...but because of it's "target functionality" I would be careful about making a "random purchase"! Either way, if You have any more specific questions then ask away.

 

[Swordfish II]

Key Pyra Points:
10+ hour battery life while being used
Linux
-All productivity software you want will be available
Tons of optimized emulators
Long life (the Pandora still has games being ported)
Dual sd slots, microsd, and emmc
Quiet
Sim card/mobile data

 

[Grench]

There are three clamshell handheld computers that all seem to be on a relatively close to similar time frame.

Pyra = ARM CPU + Linux + 4G (data) + thumb keyboard + game controls + massive storage capabilities (eMMC+uSD+2SD).
Gemini = ARM CPU + Android & Linux + 4G (phone&data) + usable?keyboard + cameras (2nd opt) + OK storage (eMMC+uSD).
GPD Win2 = X86 CPU + Windows 10 + thumb keyboard + game controls + FAST storage + good storage (M.2 + uSD)

Pyra is due roughly n+2 months where n is a function of Dragons^time.
Gemini is was due last month and is now slated for January - which would be a surprise - more likely later.
GPD Win2 is due sometime in the 2nd quarter to mid 2018. The GPD Win and GPD pocket are available now.

Frankly, the original poster seems to be most interested in games. That would eliminate the Gemini from consideration. He doesn't appear to care about 4G telephony - eliminates Pyra 4G. That leaves the Pyra WiFi and the GPD Win and Win2 products. The games he's listed seem to be all native Windows stuff. Although the Pyra might be able to run a few Windows applications through emulation wizzardry, it isn't likely to be an easy road for the guy.

 

[Daniel Burk]

I am back again, unfortunately I am under time constraints, which is the reason I have not done FULL research, and thus the reason I posted. You know what sucks, I made a detail response but then it basically got erased because some message trolled me, I got signed out, and it was because apparently you cant link... To make it short, instead of investing in a GPD win now, would investing in this help the project any? I want quietness, last I read there is a noise issue, the one difference is this device is slightly more compact but a bit more ergonomic and I think I might even be able to use it as a mini laptop with my fingers being skinny. I can almost do it with blackberry Q10, which is somewhat what a GPD win keyboard would feel like. I come from the background of playing a lot of battletoads on a Samsung Galaxy S3 so I like removing the battery, but I kept getting my BUTT KICKED! I have also wanted to type, lul and behold not without adding something external, and you have to use a battery draining bluetooth, and sometimes you have to program it specifically... Also here I can actually contact people about it not working, so easy access.

Some things come to mind:
ruggedness, outdoor use, color change perhaps, like decals would be cool to customize the case. I have a Nexus 7 with linux installed long ago but never really used it, so I can educate myself on Linux with that. So I guess the question is what happens if I invest now, versus later? I hope to specifically reply to the post later, I actually tried but I got trolled.

 

[ible]

i remember seeing a youtube video of a guy reviewing the pandora. he said he loved the idea of it but couldn't get over the fact that it was linux. something to the effect that it's different than windows and requires learning something new. i was seriously amazed, he was like 13 years old.

on the other hand, if you want to run windows apps specifically, you should get a WIN (2).

 

[Daniel Burk]

I am interested in games but I want a hybrid device that can function like a laptop so that is why I have not pressed the "buy win" button. Two months is not too long and I do regularly learn new things, but I just dont want it to be a frustrating pain in the butt. I am more interested in the data side of things rather than sending messages or calling people, hell you can use data to do all that technically. The pocket keyboard is attrocious, the GPD win might not be a long term solution, I already have spent so much money near the end of the year. Win 2 is goings to be like 8 months from now, I do not have that much time to wait for operations. I guess I wonder from experienced linux users for playing older games like say Diablo pc with the mod I am running, is that a slow process that is hit and miss, or with wine, it has already been done.

Right now as it stands if I buy the GPD win, likely I wont be able to buy the Pyra. The keyboard is also something that might be so much easier and more satisfying to use on the Pyra. I wonder if anyone who has gotten there hands every tried to use it on a table. But obviously I would like to lay down while computing or gaming, much more relaxing than forcing my spine up all the time, or when I am physically exausted.

 

[sebt3]

Welcome on board Daniel,

Games like Diablo do have specific ports for pandora (http://repo.openpandora.org/?page=detail&app=package.diablo1)and will very likely have a pyra port (The guy that have ported Diablo, notaz, do have a pyra prototype right now). But dont come with very high expectation for other games to be ported this way to the pyra. Porting a close source Windows/x86 game to linux/arm is a hell of job. And only porting one is already a huge feat (given by the world reaction when he ported starcraft). Notaz have done that many times already, so have M-HT.
The real point of the pyra is not the device itself, its capability or its awesome seller (well these are very valid points too). The real point of the pyra is its community and its awesome members (I gave you 2 names here, but there's far more). This community have been the home of the best handhelds emulators coders for decades now. I mean : picodrive (the best megadrive emulator in existance) build within this community. gpsp (the fastest gba emulator) build within this community. and the list is rather long

An old revision of the case and the keymat have made a great world tour around the community (see here for complete feedback: https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/threads/test-the-keymat.80259/). I do have one at home and I'm realy getting used to this layout (still have the pandora reflexes though) and I for one realy like the feel of the keyboard.

The 2 months is a meme around here. The pandora have been in a 2months(tm) status for over 3years. The pyra is slowly reaching that mark too. While the developpement of the device is clearly ending, the 2 months meme is still very optimistic. Imho 4 months sound way more realistic... and i'm known to be optimistic so it might be even more.

 

[Kev2442]

Well hello there, and welcome !

I'm not the most tech-savvy guy here, but I'll give my two cents :
First of all, figure out what you need and only then, what you're hoping for.
Diablo I / Diablo II and Battletoads are pretty much a given for both platforms. Maybe working even better on the Pyra because of Windows further screwing up compatibility with each newer version for the first, and emulators being optimized for the Pyra for the latter.
When it comes to laptop usage, we don't know what software you want to use. If you're using proprietary software (Office, Photoshop etc), emulation might make it run, but if it's any stable it probably won't be fast enough for productivity.

What also matters is your will to learn new systems...
I've always been a Windows user (Win10 here). I've tried multiple times to make the move to Linux (with hardware-accelerated Windows virtualization to compensate for the missing software and games), but I figured one thing out :
I'm not afraid of the learning curve, but not on my everyday machine : I depend on it both for productivity and leisure and I can't let any of that slip away. You won't bother figuring out how to do anything when you want it to just work.
If you consider using your future device in critical situations, be prepared to face trouble. Still, office apps and dev tools probably will run out of the box. And I had high expectations thus trouble setting up my equipment (semi-pro A/V hardware, compile-it-yourself NVIDIA drivers...).
I'll use the Pyra as a hobby machine and, as soon as it's ready, a smartphone. Neither is too important for me to mess around with

...and software.
If you depend on many closed software, you might also want to look for open-source alternatives.
Microsoft Office easily becomes OpenOffice/LibreOffice as long as you don't depend on too advanced features (for example, VBA should work on LibreOffice, but maybe only partially), but Inkscape and The GIMP don't always replace Adobe Illustrator and Photoshop that well.
Enquire about emulation status on the WINE AppDB if you depend on Windows software : for example, you can probably run Photoshop with WINE and Exagear/QEMU, but the latest that is somewhat stable seems to be CC 2015.

But games are a totally different kind of beast.
Productivity software is much, MUCH easier to emulate than games, because the latter rely on everything complicated to run : 3D rendering, audio sync, network code... And you always lose performance as you're chasing accuracy.
And it doesn't mean productivity software ain't difficult to make work anyway. The more complex the software (used instruction sets, driver dependencies, APIs supported, GPU offloading and such), the slower and buggy it gets.
In fact, I have way more faith in playing the Android port of GTA III than emulating the Windows version. But I'm pretty sure I'll get to finish the game on my Pyra in some way.
Most games won't run. At best for a pretty long time. It's as simple as that. Yet I don't expect you to play every single video game out there...
Many great games will still be available, be it through emulating up to the 6th gen of consoles (Dreamcast for sure, GameCube and PS2 maybe but not perfect, Xbox highly unlikely), compatibility layers (late 1990s - early 2000s PC games like Half-Life or NFS: Porsche 2000/Unleashed I think) or source ports (Warsow and Morrowind anyone ?).

Some older classics have not aged well enough (graphically or content-wise) for me to play at home. The Pyra gives me the opportunity to experience them anyway, when I won't be able to play larger and more recent releases.
You still want your PC to be able to do stuff you can't do elsewhere, right ?

Whew, that was quite the novel I wrote here. Hope it proves the Pyra is a capable device without x86 and Win10. The GPD sure is tempting, but considering most of PC software aren't well suited to the platform, sometimes it all sounds like bells and whistles to me.

 

[Daniel Burk]

So guys.... that is like gonna make the Pyra look a lot less appealing when it is more powerful, has a very solid design, the keyboard looks really use-able. It is basically a shrunken lenvo yoga 700 with gamepad. It will cost around the same as the pyra. I think it can actually run Total War Warhammer while you guys say the Pyra absolutely can not. This might be a problem for the Pyra because of how long it has been in development, when I looked i up a bit ago I was surprised it is still in development, heck still getting ram to work, at this point (considering it is modular), you need a competitive cpu/gpu. Still, removable battery, teh interwebz, and different style keyboard sets it apart.

So after looking at my email today I am told it could at least be 4 months or more, so I went ahead and get a really good price on the GPD win. I do not want to invest in something that I wont be able to use it in six months. Gpd win is at least a refined product with aluminum shell added, watching this the device will be more than enough for now. Sure the Pyra will be a better keyboard layout, the GPD wins in price and well being able to use it right away. I just can not wait that long to play battletoads! I do not think a preorder would change anything, I will just get the Pyra when it is out.

Again, wish I could quote people's post, but I have read them anyways. Something I forgot to mention is I was in the homebrew scene on the PSP, I hacked a Ipod Nano, I have done those complex cryptic software operations to expand the use of the device by so much.. The thing is when I do that, I tend to get bored of the device shortly afterwards and it all becomes kind of moot... But that might be because screw apple, and the psp had a wide screen making emulated games look really stretched.

So thus with that said, I am not really a software newbie, I use gimp, I do not really use windows software all that much, usually use third party like audacity, gimp... I have even installed linux on a asus eee 4g, but then I broke it by opening it up (GGGGrrrrr). I even used picodrive on the psp, which I used a good amount. But one day I died so I threw the psp away to burry the past.

To address running windows app games, well most of my games are several years old, and I looked at Wine and a good deal run so I do not think that will be a problem at all. But for now I choose the option that lets me simply drag and drop data and start right away, I can finally play portable Halo!

 

[levi]

Yeah, that's fair enough. The pyra will give you 4G data, and accelerometers, a better keyboard layout and better expandability (SD cards and so on), but the GPD win is cheaper and available now, and the Win 2 will probably come out before the Pyra.

I hope you're aware that our own EvilDragon runs a shop that stocks GPD devices including the Win (see https://www.dragonbox.de/en/571-gpd-win-rev-25-z8750-aluminium-lid-handhelds-4260416651807.html). He's based in Bavaria, and will support the device so that if it breaks you can send it back to him, rather than trying to get it back to china or wherever if you buy it from some random ebay seller.

 

[Daniel Burk]

Too late, I got it for less than $300 from China, the Chinese seem to like meh anyways. At first glane the GPD win 2 is quite a bit more powerful, but one thing I remember doing with my Nexus 7 is throttleing the cpu or setting the cpu to a very lower mhz (which I customized on the psp a while back), so that is what I would love to do. My thought process is in efficency instead of shear power. The GPD win 2 is a bit of a hog, it needs to freakin batteries, I rather have the GPD win for the majority of things I would do. My coming GPD win and my blackberry will be two peas and a pod, I guess I will try doing internet that way. So we will use the GPD win as a test subject, and just a way to train myself to use keys that are that small. I will be a keyboard ninja master by the time the Pyra comes around.

Besides playing battle toads, what is more important is if I can play this game

 

[Daniel Burk]

omg I just suffered a handheld heart attack https://www.gearbest.com/gpd-win-2-_gear/ Lol that price means the Pyra is not even competing with the GPD win 2.. but I also checked the price for a 4g pyra with vat, kind of getting up there.. I have some outdated laptop hardware that I was thinking of selling to save up for this beast. I do not know how to price such items. For example a Lenovo thinkpad 2015. Anyone here good at determining what their tech value is, or is it kind of subjective? I hope to actually quote some people, there are things I would love to highlight from all the helpful post. Or you can just ignore me.. Because nobody likes me

 

[TrashyMG]

Okay so the GPD Win is more of your Jam, that's fine...

Most of us here want to be here, because we want the continuation of this Pandora Community to move forward on a new platform, We as a group had some contribution in the design choices and such, so we're invested into it. So the Pyra is likely a little bizarre for someone who is new to the community.

 

[Wally]

IF you're just going to play games from the battletoads era why not just get a PSP or a Pandora?

 

[levi]

OT: Aww, I just noticed Wally's kissy kissy gnome x-mas avatar made it as far as the third day of christmas! I usually do a christmas avatar of some sort, but forgot this year