Installation System / Game Marketplace?

[Sphinxter]

Wow, I guess nobody caught atomicthumb's sarcasm?

Sarcastic or not he has a point.

 

[danielliu88888]

Wow, I guess nobody caught atomicthumb's sarcasm?

Sarcastic or not he has a point.

ah, yes, he does. never doubt the stupidity of the average consumer.

 

[skeezix]

Before it gets too nasty...

OP -- there are at least a project or two attempting to make it even easier; we've designed into the Panda some facilities to make it _VERY_ easy to install/uninstall apps (that I would be surprised if they don't get used in other gadgets as well, in idea at least), and a few people are working on the other side, to make it easier to locate and download and even identify updates to already installed stuff.

So its being worked on; if you want to lend a hand, do some search and find the peeps.. dflemstr is working on the biggest contender for the online database.

jeff

 

[atomicthumbs]

Well, to be honest, with all the newbies, it's hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic and when someone is being serious...

I'm not a newbie :/

 

OP -- there are at least a project or two attempting to make it even easier; we've designed into the Panda some facilities to make it _VERY_ easy to install/uninstall apps (that I would be surprised if they don't get used in other gadgets as well, in idea at least), and a few people are working on the other side, to make it easier to locate and download and even identify updates to already installed stuff

Wunderbar!

 

[Vorporeal]

As skeezix said, dflemstr is working on a very nice, pretty (*sigh*), easy-to-use website that could be used as a replacement for the File Archive. Right now (and possibly permanently, not sure which) it only is for PND files. He's designed it in a way such that someone could easily write an application that runs on the Pandora, hooks into his site, gets package data, and allows you to do all of the PND installation/un-installation from that program - your App Store, if you will. Until he "releases" his site, PNDs get put on there, and hardware is put into the hands of users, nobody's going to write that program. If I know this community, it'll probably be done (at least a first public release) before the second batch is sent out.

 

[Monk]

Well, to be honest, with all the newbies, it's hard to tell when someone is being sarcastic and when someone is being serious...

I'm not a newbie :/

Sadly, even people who have been around long enough to know better have been psoting some puzzlingly newbie-ish posts lately.

Having said which, your post screamed "SARCASM" at me in 144 point flaming text. But that just might be me

 

[t-strike]

@DroneB Dev

From my PHP coding viewpoint, making the current repository better and improving the interface and making it better browsable, would be one solution, but i guess it would be incomplete. You need some kind of client-side scripting to check the installed applications, f.e. with Java or Ajax. I'm not experienced with Java nor Ajax, but coding a PHP system around it would be no problem for me. Besides i'm not sure if the database used for the current repository stores all information you want to use in a nice graphical environment, so you might need a different database layout (f.e. dflemstr's system).

But i think the best option is if you have a seperate application so you're out of the browser environment (looks better), but it is not 100% necessairy. Or can you flag a shortcut to start Firefox in full-screen modus, without toolbars?

Whichever option is chosen, i think that option should be included in the software of the Pandora at lauch or at least at the commercial launch. It's nice to see there's already a file repository online, but at least put a link to it in the browser favorites or on the desktop so people can find it. If it would be an application implementation, that application should be standard on the commercial sale of Pandora.


@vorporeal & skeezix:

I read into the Package Manager of dflemstr, that kind of system might indeed provide the database on which to build such a system. I'm however afraid of the local storage that system uses, it gives the system a single point of failure. The best way to distribute the files would be with mirrored FTP servers, or even better perhaps using Bittorrent, so no-one needs to pay for bandwidth or expensive servers. Is there btw a Torrent client for Pandora?


@all

I can install the apps, don't you worry about me.

Though nowadays, superb hardware isn't good enough to succeed, you have to make your product 'idiot-proof' so every nitwit can use the device as he sees fit. People seem to fail to think themselves nowadays. I'm just opting to make it idiot-proof, to give it that small extra edge that makes sure that the device isn't only usable to computer-experienced people.

It's good to read that work is already started on installation/updating/deinstallation software, so we're already moving towards the goal. Good work!

 

[t-strike]

You sure are demanding a lot considering everyone here is working on the software for FREE to begin with. You want something fancy and pretty with bells and whistles, start putting your money where your mouth is.

I didn't mean paid software should be the standard, i just pointed out that having commercial software in there would be an option. The most software will be for Free, for sure at the start. If the Pandora is a success, i think it will surely attract commercial developers and at that point you would need to have a central marketplace system in place.

But lets hope everybody will start coding and provide us with a huge amount of free software.

Btw, the kind of software i propose might be fancy and stuff, that doesn't mean it should be expensive. The work of one designer would suffice.


ps. i just enquired to see if there are still units available for purchase from the first upcoming batch.

 

[dflemstr]

http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/48518-the-pnd-package-manager/

Just a hint at what's coming, from me at least.

 

[Sugar_Kane]

The GP32, GP2x f100/f200 and Wiz have all been successes without the fancy software download portals. I think that if you are interested in a device like this in the first place, then it goes without saying that you have the beans to find the software no matter where it comes from.

An app store style system would lend a nice sheen to the package, but I don't think the community at large would care significantly either way.

 

[Monk]

http://www.gp32x.de...ackage-manager/

Just a hint at what's coming, from me at least.

I think he's heard about it. From the first post in this thread:

I also read about the Package Manager system from dflemstr

However, I suspect that he doesn't quite appreciate where your solution applies as he (she? It?) seems to think it's for development (i.e. by developers) rather than end users.... sure right NOW it's not much use to end users, but that's at least in part because there aren't any. End Users, that is. The only people with Pandoras are devs... for the moment

This is set to change "In Two Months" (TM).

 

[dflemstr]

However, I suspect that he doesn't quite appreciate where your solution applies as he (she? It?) seems to think it's for development rather than end users.... sure right NOW it's not much use to end users, but that's at least in part because tehre aren't any. The only people with Pandoras are devs... for the moment

Wait, I don't know if I understand you correctly. Do you think that the PND Manager is targeted at developers, or that the thread is targeted at developers?

Becuase although #2 might be correct, #1 would be very, very wrong and I would probably have to redesign the whole PND Manager system if that was the general opinion, because the PND Manager is not supposed to help developers at all. It's supposed to emulate the appnr.com database or the Apple AppStore (But of course go beyond that, too).

Oh and the PND Manager tries to move *away* from the general philosophy that "the user is supposed to know where to get stuff". Sure, most of us know how to google for PND files or find them in a file archive, but we want to widen the usability spectrum of the Pandora and not be conservative and keep to the old model "just because" that's how it been done for the last eleventy devices, don't we?

 

[-Tj-]

When I made my decision to buy Pandora, I wasn't worried about an AppStore-like solution because all I really wanted was something that was more powerful than my PSP for emulation, and a helluva lot more open than the big four's approach to homebrew. I've become used to searching for homebrew online via Google and other sources, and I suspect many others who bought Pandora have, too. Would be nice to have something more centralized, though.

Two things I'd appreciate with Pandora is 1: a fairly common, uniform file system for most apps, and 2: a community app repository. So far it seems as though both of those things will be fulfilled.

The only other thing I would really like to see would be a review and/or rating system that can hold info relating to specific versions of a file. For example, if I want "Genesis Emulator XX 0.01b," I would love to know what other users think about it, what works, what doesn't, etc., but if I later see "Genesis Emulator XX 0.2," I don't want to be seeing the same rating/review for 0.01b since those reviews probably won't apply.

 

[WizardStan]

Am I the only one feeling some irony in this thread?
"It's too hard to click-click-click-save to SD. It should be nice and simple like the Wii with its click-click-click-buy"
(I'm saying that there is no real difference between clicking through a categorized website and going through the Wiishop channel, and anyone who uses it as an example of how things should be should re-evaluate what exactly they are arguing about)

 

[craigix]

This is something I'm aware of, but I think if we make a version of the archive which is designed for the Pandora res and make things a little more 'pretty' it will work, maybe add bigger 'install this' buttons and things like that for people who like it simple.

I also plan to add the ability for people who upload to the archive to put a $ price on their program or a $ price for a suggested donation.

You will be able to charge your account up at $10 at a time to use those features. They are of course voluntary without DRM, but might encourage some bigger ports of, say, other CortexA8 games/apps.

 

[dflemstr]

This is something I'm aware of, but I think if we make a version of the archive which is designed for the Pandora res and make things a little more 'pretty' it will work, maybe add bigger 'install this' buttons and things like that for people who like it simple.

I also plan to add the ability for people who upload to the archive to put a $ price on their program or a $ price for a suggested donation.

You will be able to charge your account up at $10 at a time to use those features. They are of course voluntary without DRM, but might encourage some bigger ports of, say, other CortexA8 games/apps.

So you have other plans with other systems, basically making the PND Manager superfluous (because its architecture doesn't allow for payments at the moment and it would need a completely new design if that feature was added)... Well, I didn't spend that much time on it anyways so I guess it isn't a problem, and some components from it might even be reusable in another project.

BTW, if you need some high performance (HIGH performance) web applications (Meaning: Not a 5-minute PHP hack but something using an application server and that is FAST) for something like this, don't hesitate to contact me. I really like doing stuff like that in my free time, and if it's something that might improve the Pandora experience, so much the better.

 

[Monk]

Wait, I don't know if I understand you correctly. Do you think that the PND Manager is targeted at developers, or that the thread is targeted at developers?

Becuase although #2 might be correct, #1 would be very, very wrong and I would probably have to redesign the whole PND Manager system if that was the general opinion, because the PND Manager is not supposed to help developers at all. It's supposed to emulate the appnr.com database or the Apple AppStore (But of course go beyond that, too).

I've tried to edit my post for clarity, though to be honest I don't see what you're failing to grasp, or why. Perhaps you should read the OPs posts?

Here - I'll try to make it as easy for you as I can. I feel that the following quotes from the first post in this thread indicate the OP is aware of your efforts but has not grasped what you are (were?) doing:

What Pandora needs to make it a huge hit with the large public, is an easy to use (de)installing/search system for games (and applications, or even music and video for that means) that everyone can use, even a four year old child and even an 80-year old grandma.

Well, i'm quite an experienced user, i started programming on the C64 and still code PHP professionally...

I also read about the Package Manager system from dflemstr, but that one is more like a file repository for developers and not what i mean, though a system like that could be used as a filling database for what i mean.

What i mean is a simple application, a nice looking, smooth and appealing graphical interface and extremely easy to operate, something like the Wii Shop channel, XBox Live Shop, Apple shop or even a digital dvd rental machine you see in the streets nowadays.

I've cut anything not relevant to my point, and also emboldened the most relevant tract where he/she/it seems to say they know about your package manager AND where they indicate that, IMHO, they have misjudged the PURPOSE of your package manger.

If you can't understand what I write, and can't understand why I disagree with the OPs assessment of your package manager, then I'm out of ideas on ways to express my thoughts.

As a side bar, I have never seen a DVD rental machine in the street (that I can recall). I have suggested in the past, however, that it would be nice if there was a more idiot-friendly way of finding and instlaling applications for the Pandora - something like the "Add/Remove" feature of Ubuntu was I think the analogy that *I* used way back when, although I may have mentioned app store as well and even standard repositories. I'm surprised the OP didn't get told to google it, actually!

 

[craigix]

This is something I'm aware of, but I think if we make a version of the archive which is designed for the Pandora res and make things a little more 'pretty' it will work, maybe add bigger 'install this' buttons and things like that for people who like it simple.

I also plan to add the ability for people who upload to the archive to put a $ price on their program or a $ price for a suggested donation.

You will be able to charge your account up at $10 at a time to use those features. They are of course voluntary without DRM, but might encourage some bigger ports of, say, other CortexA8 games/apps.

So you have other plans with other systems, basically making the PND Manager superfluous (because its architecture doesn't allow for payments at the moment and it would need a completely new design if that feature was added)... Well, I didn't spend that much time on it anyways so I guess it isn't a problem, and some components from it might even be reusable in another project.

BTW, if you need some high performance (HIGH performance) web applications (Meaning: Not a 5-minute PHP hack but something using an application server and that is FAST) for something like this, don't hesitate to contact me. I really like doing stuff like that in my free time, and if it's something that might improve the Pandora experience, so much the better.

Well in my post I'm just talking about the Archive, the one which is there now, there will just be the option to charge your account or pay as you download via a normal web gateway.

 

[dflemstr]

If you can't understand what I write, and can't understand why I disagree with the OPs assessment of your package manager, then I'm out of ideas on ways to express my thoughts.

Sorry for the misunderstanding; I didn't understand what you meant since you kind of implied that the quote "I also read about the Package Manager system from dflemstr" should tell me that the OP thinks the PND Manager is targeted at developers. I didn't really recall the quote's context since I read through the OP's post two pages ago, and therefore thought that it didn't contain anything related to the supposed developer target audience, or else you would have quoted it. Again, sorry.

Also, chill out! This quote would have been all you would have had to write and I would have understood:
"I also read about the Package Manager system from dflemstr, but that one is more like a file repository for developers and not what i mean, though a system like that could be used as a filling database for what i mean."

Of course this all happened because I'm too lazy to reread the thread every once in a while so you can blame it all on me I guess...

 

[Jourdy288]

Um, perhaps we could have an XBL(Xbox Live) style app store (although the apps shouldn't cost you anything, IMHO). I'll get back to you on this a little later, I just got a great idea for a beautiful, grandmother-grandchild friendly GUI. I do agree with some of the above posts, Pandora will succeed for being open, but I don't think having an attractive GUI could hurt either. While it doesn't really matter to me, I bet most people would like to be able to have their Pandoras connected to the internet and DL stuff directly to it as opposed to click-clack-click-wait-popincard-copy-past-wait-popoutcard-load. In that order. I'm used to transferring files that way, it's not a problem for me, yet it would likely put us ahead if we had a cool GUI for apps. Just saying.
BTW, anybody know of a good program for making stuff like that?