In 2006 where did you think we would be today...

[GeePeeTwoEggs]

...regarding mobile emulation?


If control = happiness then 2006 onwards can't really have been a great time for us mobile gaming enthusiasts. In 7 short years we've had iPhone 3g, 3gs, 4, 4s, 5, iPad, 1, 2, 3, 4, iPad mini, PS Vita, Galaxy Swhatever, Galaxy Note 1,2, 8.0, 10.1, Nexus thisthatandthenextthing, Xperia yawn, Archos GamePad, JXD insert random nimber here, Kindles, GCW Zero's and even a strange thing called a Pandora (?!!!) etc.


90 % of the above mentioned machines share planned obselence - you know that thing where you buy a gadget and 2 years later the latest operating system update seems to accidentally run really slow on your € 700 purchase but as if by magic, runs like a dream on the newer even shinier model which is coming out SOON!


What was that again? Control = happiness? In the closed worlds of Android, IOS, Windows 8, Playstation Store, Nintendo eShop, Amazon who is more in control? Company or consumer? Every Playstation game EVER!!!! *except the really good ones - Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer, Tekken 3, Wipeout 2097, Wip3out Special Edition, Colin McRae Rally 2.0, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, Medal of Honor, Meal of Honor Underground. We can't release them to the public! They'll immediately notice that worse graphics don't neccessarily equate to worse gameplay. We need to teach them that shinier is better!!!


So, to the other 10%. The open source consoles with dedicated gaming controls. In 2006 did you really think there would still be waiting on a machine with a ghosting free screen that's not too big but also not too small, good DUAL nubs AND and good control pad. Did you think that we would still be stuck at pre N64 as the limits of emulation possibilities. Did you think that micro sd cards would still be smaller than hard drive sizes at that time (7 years ago you could get most of your music AND video collection on a 180 GB Archos 5 allowing YOU a bit of freedom to decide goodies to stick on your machine. 16Gb iPad anyone one?)


In short, in 2006 we dreamt of a portable machine in the future that could do it all. The GP2X showed as the potential and possibilities.


Are we there yet?


If not, anyone know if a possible 8 core, 2.2 Ghz 5.3" AMOLED Galaxy Note 3 64Gb + 64 Gb micro sd card + stylus (DS emulation!!) + 3 Gb RAM (Dreamcast, full speed PSP emulation?) + iControlPad, might be the answer to our portable gaming prayers??!!

 

[Exophase]

I don't think emulation on all those devices you listed has hurt the traditional mobile emulation scene. GP2X was very niche in 2006 and Pandora fulfills that niche today. If you ask me Android has helped more than it has hurt; devices like JXD S7300 are in a much better position than ones like JXD 301. You complain about lack of PS1 games for Android but nothing stops you from getting RetroArch or another PS1 emulator and putting them on your device yourself.

Not sure what you define as pre-N64 but I wouldn't characterize Pandora as being stuck at that. If you predicted that microSD cards would be bigger than even small PMP harddrives from back then I don't know what to tell you; it has been improving at a pretty predictable cadence and your predictions would have been badly formed.

Galaxy Note 3 the answer to your specific prayers? Well first of all, 8 cores 2.2GHz is unrealistic so forget about that, if it's Cortex-A15 based you will be lucky to get 4x1.8GHz A15 (if that) + 4x1.2GHz A7. It's funny how you seem to qualify full speed Dreamcast and PSP emulation by the amount of RAM, that doesn't really matter.. the former needs the emulator to be properly released and the latter, well I don't know if it'll be full speed for everything even on Note 3.

 

[EssoAir]

Woah woah woah. Hold your damn horses. The only reason there hasn't been "the perfect emulation" device is simply lack of public interest. No one cares about playing old games on new devices. They want bullshit like Halo 5 and CoD ModernBlackOpsWarfare 20484761694847. Its not an issue of ability, but of damand. Thats why Android has attracted a lot of the emulation community. Its popular enough to run on really mice hardware, but open enough (albeit not entirely) to run code whether Google says it can or not. It has the closest thing to a balance between closed-source so companied have the profit motive to make devices with it, and open-source so developers dont feel restricted by guidlines or shitty hardware. You can stick android on ARM and x86 and the code doesnt need recompiling (apps run on both architectures - no recompiling). I also think there is an effort to port Android to PowerPC. So to answer your question, its not perfect but the Note3+iCP2 is the best we have so far. Luckily, as sparked by the Ouya, Android as a console OS is now in the process of being legitimized. Give it a few more years (2 or 3) and we'll see enough Android emulators and fast hardware that all you'll need to do is stick your phone in a controller case and you can play all the new and old games you want to. I actually talked with a university student in austria that is about half way done with an Xbox 360 emulator. How fucking cool would that be?

 

[Exophase]

You can stick android on ARM and x86 and the code doesnt need recompiling (apps run on both architectures - no recompiling).

NDK stuff - which is going to apply to most emulators - needs to be compiled for the arch. The APK is a fat binary format so it stores both, so you don't have to recompile it, but there's nothing really that special or magical about that.

its not perfect but the Note3+iCP2 is the best we have so far.

So the best we have so far is two things that are not even released yet..

I actually talked with a university student in austria that is about half way done with an Xbox 360 emulator. How fucking cool would that be?

Wow, you are alarmingly gullible. That guy is full of shit.

 

[EssoAir]

You can stick android on ARM and x86 and the code doesnt need recompiling (apps run on both architectures - no recompiling).

NDK stuff - which is going to apply to most emulators - needs to be compiled for the arch. The APK is a fat binary format so it stores both, so you don't have to recompile it, but there's nothing really that special or magical about that.

its not perfect but the Note3+iCP2 is the best we have so far.

So the best we have so far is two things that are not even released yet..

I actually talked with a university student in austria that is about half way done with an Xbox 360 emulator. How fucking cool would that be?

Wow, you are alarmingly gullible. That guy is full of shit.

thanks, asshole. I'll see if I can find the git page

 

[Exophase]

Oh, so was it you who surmised the level of completion for this emulator?

Anyone can start a git for an XBox 360 emulator, but that doesn't make them half done.

 

[GeePeeTwoEggs]

I don't think emulation on all those devices you listed has hurt the traditional mobile emulation scene. GP2X was very niche in 2006 and Pandora fulfills that niche today. If you ask me Android has helped more than it has hurt; devices like JXD S7300 are in a much better position than ones like JXD 301. You complain about lack of PS1 games for Android but nothing stops you from getting RetroArch or another PS1 emulator and putting them on your device yourself.Not sure what you define as pre-N64 but I wouldn't characterize Pandora as being stuck at that. If you predicted that microSD cards would be bigger than even small PMP harddrives from back then I don't know what to tell you; it has been improving at a pretty predictable cadence and your predictions would have been badly formed.Galaxy Note 3 the answer to your specific prayers? Well first of all, 8 cores 2.2GHz is unrealistic so forget about that, if it's Cortex-A15 based you will be lucky to get 4x1.8GHz A15 (if that) + 4x1.2GHz A7. It's funny how you seem to qualify full speed Dreamcast and PSP emulation by the amount of RAM, that doesn't really matter.. the former needs the emulator to be properly released and the latter, well I don't know if it'll be full speed for everything even on Note 3.

Where did I complain about the lack of PS1 Emulators on Android? I've had PS1 Emulators on numerous Android machines but none have had good dedicated controls AND a good screen AND were not too big/ too small. The 'every Playstation game ever' quote was a swipe Sony who want us all to go digital but refuse to make available even a small percentage of their PS1, PS2 and PS3 back catalogue.


PS1 emulation on Pandora (pre N64) is pretty much perfect for most users and the last TV based console to enjoy that status on our little silver/ black brick.


Regarding my embarrassingly inaccurate Note comments, I just figured the bit in brackets about the DC and PSP emulation looked better when postioned after the RAM size. It wasn't really my intention to sound knowledgable.


So, I'll take that as a "Yes, we are exactly where I thought we'd be" then.

 

[EssoAir]

@Exophase and all the other "I jump to conclusions really fast" assholes out there. Couldnt find the git (ill keep looking) but here is our conversation


Here you go

http://db.tt/1EipqloT

 

[Exophase]

I said you were complaining about lack of PS1 GAMES.

Every Playstation game EVER!!!! *except the really good ones - Gran Turismo, Ridge Racer, Tekken 3, Wipeout 2097, Wip3out Special Edition, Colin McRae Rally 2.0, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 2, Medal of Honor, Meal of Honor Underground. We can't release them to the public! They'll immediately notice that worse graphics don't neccessarily equate to worse gameplay. We need to teach them that shinier is better!!!

I don't know why you care given the viable alternative. Keep out the really good games (in your opinion only) so people don't realize that games can be good with bad graphics, but include a bunch of other PS1 games? That's a weird theory.. you know, there is actually work involved in porting games, plus they have to get the licensing from the IP owner when they don't own it so you won't see everything there. Doesn't mean it's for the reason you said...

 

[Exophase]

@Exophase and all the other "I jump to conclusions really fast" assholes out there. Couldnt find the git (ill keep looking) but here is our conversation

Here you go

http://db.tt/1EipqloT

First of all, stop calling me an asshole. I'm sorry I said the guy was full of shit, it's actually you who is full of shit in this case. His e-mails don't say he's done half of an XBox 360 emulator done, it says he did some basic research into the hardware that uncovered things everyone already knows about it and used it to start writing a PowerPC interpreter. You think this means half done XBox 360 emulation, well it isn't, such a thing is already done by other open source emulators and that does NOT constitute progress towards XBox 360 emulation.

Furthermore he's not even doing it for Android which is strongly implied by the context in your post (otherwise I have absolutely no idea why you brought it up)

 

[EssoAir]

Oh, no didnt mean to imply for android. That was just a "hey this is also a thing"


Never said it was done, and I meant half-done as in on its way but not completed. I have no clue what be has an hasnot completed. I just didnt appreciate your jump to him being full of shit. Im not making any outlandish claims, just that "I talked to a dude that is working on it"

 

[GeePeeTwoEggs]

"That's a weird theory.. you know, there is actually work involved in porting games, plus they have to get the licensing from the IP owner when they don't own it so you won't see everything there. Doesn't mean it's for the reason you said"


*Aye, right...why did they get rid of backwards compatibility after only 3 months into the PS3's life? Old graphics (PS2) + fanatstic playability = still fantastic playability = reduced sales of PS3 software = let's get rid of backwards compatibility, quick!!


*Scottish. The only language in the world where two positives mean a negative.

 

[CocoCreekFisherman]

I never thought in 2006 I would have a 1 gig OpenPandora that could emulate so well and variably along with being a PC held in my one hand.

I don't think this is really relevant to topic here..sorry ... but I have for a spell wondered if there will ever be an emulator handheld running...XBOX,PS2 and DREAMCAST ??

It seems our beloved Pandora could be so close yes?

 

[_jr_]

Actually I was perfectly happy in 2006. My boss provided me (private use explicitly allowed!) with a Thinkpad and a Sony palm os device. I was on the road (well actually train) about 40 hours a week and spend >=3 nights away from home, but nonetheless did play all the games I ever wanted to play when and wherever I was.


I'm still perfectly happy today even though both machines have gone together with the P4M Thinkpad and the Aspire One 110L I had inbetween, since I now have a N900, a pandora and a portable Core i7 heating device to also play whatever I want. It's even better now, because software has become much more portable to accomodate ARM and X86-64 and despite the best efforts of Apple more people than ever and not only software developers like me but especially artists and writers work on open projects.


Yes, there are titles that don't run on either of my machines and there are titles that only run on the crappy, loud, and heavy heater. But that doesn't make me lose any sleep because these are a minority and I'll play them soon enough (if they are actually worth playing) on whatever device I'll have in a couple of years. Running everything I need for my daily life has never been a problem since I bought my first computer in 84.


It's annoying seeing people headlessly chasing Apple/Sony/Google/MS/whatever created fata morganas that are just designed to grab their cash without giving back anything of lasting quality while the world is actually a pretty good place due to the hard combined work of the likes of Notaz, Skeezix, ED (just providing a random selection) and e.g. Exophase, _wb_, and ekianjo demonstrating daily that by actually doing something productive everybody can help making it even better.

 

[ghostpatch]

don't really get the topic,

but yeah, its amazing how fast new cool stuff launches. Pandoras specs and price might be pretty bad compared to all the new (and not so new) products but it was always an idealistic project for me so I don't care. And those who care should just shut up and go buy something else.. 

and I'm an asshole and I don't mind it

yeaYY

 

[Exophase]

"That's a weird theory.. you know, there is actually work involved in porting games, plus they have to get the licensing from the IP owner when they don't own it so you won't see everything there. Doesn't mean it's for the reason you said"

*Aye, right...why did they get rid of backwards compatibility after only 3 months into the PS3's life? Old graphics (PS2) + fanatstic playability = still fantastic playability = reduced sales of PS3 software = let's get rid of backwards compatibility, quick!!

They get rid of backwards compatibility in PS3 because it cost money supporting it and they desperately needed to reduce the cost of the units since they were bleeding case on an already very expensive console.

 

[ekianjo]

"That's a weird theory.. you know, there is actually work involved in porting games, plus they have to get the licensing from the IP owner when they don't own it so you won't see everything there. Doesn't mean it's for the reason you said"


*Aye, right...why did they get rid of backwards compatibility after only 3 months into the PS3's life? Old graphics (PS2) + fanatstic playability = still fantastic playability = reduced sales of PS3 software = let's get rid of backwards compatibility, quick!!

They get rid of backwards compatibility in PS3 because it cost money supporting it and they desperately needed to reduce the cost of the units since they were bleeding case on an already very expensive console.

Yeah, especially since they were including the Emotion Engine chip in every PS3 to ensure the said compatibility, if I remember correctly. 

 

[Nintendo]

EssoAir and crew...could we please quit with the name calling and accusations or I might have iss...

I'm no longer mod. Carry on.