I Thought More Shipments Of Pandoras Was Going Happen More Often....

[chris_c]

Give us ALL the contact details you have for CC. ALL the details - right here, including personal contact numbers of the staff, the company business numbers, web addresses and even postal details. We can flood them day and night with our complaints at their shitty behaviour, pester them, and tie them up in knots until they pull their finger out and I get my flaming (how polite) Pandora. We can make noise, and a nusiance of ourselves, perhaps to the point they start losing money, clients and are unable to function unless they behave in a business like fashion. If that fails, I'll gladly donate to a "sue the bastards" fund.

If they really are the ones at whos door the blame lies, then they deserve everything they get from those who put their faith and money into their hands. I think it's time to let them know just how much ill will they are generating, and get it into their thick sculls what they have do to repair some of that damage. Tell them to give us the goods, or we start advertising the truth about them and hopefully trashing their business through the power of the people, and the power of internet - and maybe even the power of the law. If it all comes to the worst, maybe you can sue them for the price of the newer components needed to make the pandora as up to date today as it was when this company should have delivered the goods.

Finally, if you do give us the details - I'd urge people to be as polite but as disruptive as possible. Once they start sticking to their shedules we would of course leave them in peace.

You'd just succeed in CC saying "stuff your business, find someone else to make your boards for you" - it *is* tempting but would ultimatly be destructive - I love to see another company being brought on stream in parallel - if only companies didn't expect setup costs to be covered...

 

[TitanUranus]

Rant..... Rave.... (vents steam) Rants some more...

You'd just succeed in CC saying "stuff your business, find someone else to make your boards for you" - it *is* tempting but would ultimately be destructive - I love to see another company being brought on stream in parallel - if only companies didn't expect setup costs to be covered...

Can they do that? Could they say that? Haven't they signed some contracts or something? Can't they be held accountable? Did OP really just dangle their family jewels in CC's blender, without actually having some kind of formal agreement promising they wouldn't turn the power on? If they did just say "stuff your business" would it not ultimately be self destructive for them, since it'd mean legal action and they'd be liable for making large reparation payments - not to mention the fact a large number of extremely pissed off people could be extremely disruptive to their business?

Well - lets start a petition then, see if we can get as many people to sign it and convince them to get making and shipping boards ASAP. Some clever person who knows how to create an online petition please set it up for us, I really want to actively do something to make them know my irritation. A petition will suffice for now.

 

[chris_c]

No doubt if they have any intelligence in *any* contracts they have signed would be that any disruptive behaviour would be grounds to cancel...

A reasonable petition with a few thousand signatures on - delivered by an OPL authorised representative in a polite manner would be another matter all together - it *might* even make a difference....

As I see the situation OPL have grounds to cancel any order - they are not being fulfilled in a timely manner...
however CC cancelling the contract could have severe consequences for the whole project...

What does Craig or Michael think of a petition ?

 

[Lorkile]

EvilDragon, that's an excellent report on the status of things at your shop. People here would complain far less often if they could just refer to the current number that's been shipped through, instead of just getting notes on the most recent shipment (which include RMA'd units and premium orders) from Craig's shop.

Not that I really agree with the grumbling, but I can fully understand why so many are discontent with the information provided.

 

[fearofshorts]

EvilDragon- Thanks for giving us the straightforward facts. I you!

 

[coldfish]

It's fair enough to be unhappy if the board manufacturer make promises they later don't keep.
(Though anyone who's done business with far east manufacturers will know that this is a cultural issue and offer suitable incentives or lower their demands.)

Expecting priority service for such a small production run as Pandora is naive.

OPT probably should've hired a professional product manager with experience, contacts and history. At least in the startup phase.

 

[chris_c]

It's fair enough to be unhappy if the board manufacturer make promises they later don't keep.
(Though anyone who's done business with far east manufacturers will know that this is a cultural issue and offer suitable incentives or lower their demands.)

Expecting priority service for such a small production run as Pandora is naive.

OPT probably should've hired a professional product manager with experience, contacts and history. At least in the startup phase.

it's an american company so the cultures not that different - they even nearly speak English! American *does* have it's subtle differences...

While not huge 4,000 boards especially of such a complex nature is not an insignificant quantity

alas a professional product manager would expect paying, and with what money...

I think the main problem is that CC is no where near as open as OPL is. Where ED and Craig have been quite transparent it seems to me that CC have tried to hide every problem from OPL hoping that it could be sorted before OPL noticed - a rather frustrating methodology - I also wonder if they have handled a board as complex as the pandoras before...

 

[LuvClub]

If you compare CC with OPL they're very similar. OPL underestimated the Pandora project thinking it was a relative doddle and even proposed shipping in 2008. After delay after delay they still haven't shipped all of Batch 1.

CC who are supposed to be small fry in board manufacturing agreed to take up this project (we supposedly should also admire them for this) and now are also behind after realising it is somewhat out of their league.

They both have tried to hide problems and delays, but the only difference is that a lot of people worship OPL while for some reason give CC stick.

 

[chris_c]

Probably not an unfair point - OPL have made some interesting design decisions like the nub which is way over complicated, almost bound to fail but finding a company that could make the boards at a realistic price point must have narrowed the field savagely ! Amazing its ever happened.

For OPL to have even delivered 1/2 of batch one is basically outstanding, truly amazing, from nothing in a few years to a finished product some of the major multinationals take longer than this to get a new phone to market. For a random bunch of people on a forum to get together and do this is something that is literally unprecedented when you look at the complexity of the board...

Look at some of the android tablets - these are simply reference designs and even reference software re bundled and slapped in a piece of plastic - and they don't come to market without significant time and more importantly massive amounts of funding...

I still think though if CC had given regular bulletins - to the effect - terrible week this week only 50 boards done because of X we are doing Y next week to sort it out - Then I think OPL's blood pressure and everyone else's would be at a much lower level...

 

[WizardStan]

Expecting priority service for such a small production run as Pandora is naive.

Except that CC is a small production facility, with the Pandora being one of the largest and most complex things they've ever done.

 

[TitanUranus]

What exactly does CC stand for? is it "Crappy Cun..." (hmm, I'm not sure where I was going with that)?

 

[chris_c]

Bad Titan, Naughty Titan (Circuit Co btw)

Edit:

is it just me that thinks its funny that for years Patrick Moore had been pronouncing Uranus one particular way then changed?....

 

[TitanUranus]

Patrick Moore is old. He's still awesome though - one of those traditional British eccentric, ametuer enthusiasts who make their subject energetic and exciting. He does the same thing for astronomy that David Attenborough does for natural history. He can get his tongue round Uranus any way he pleases!

 

[chris_c]

oooh errr missus - good to see that the double entendre is still alive and well....

 

[coldfish]

it's an american company so the cultures not that different - they even nearly speak English! American *does* have it's subtle differences...

While not huge 4,000 boards especially of such a complex nature is not an insignificant quantity

alas a professional product manager would expect paying, and with what money...

I think the main problem is that CC is no where near as open as OPL is. Where ED and Craig have been quite transparent it seems to me that CC have tried to hide every problem from OPL hoping that it could be sorted before OPL noticed - a rather frustrating methodology - I also wonder if they have handled a board as complex as the pandoras before...

I didnt know they were using a US based factory...
Their handling of issues doesn't sound that different from some of the Chinese factories I've worked with.

Ive come to realise that you have to pick your factory carefully, If they're cheap there's usually a good reason why.
With a project like this I'd be looking for production samples that match (or better) what I'm doing, if my project is pushing their skills I either have to expect some learning curve or shop elsewhere.

My point is: It's a very simplistic view to hang all the blame on the factory.

 

[chris_c]

Maybe equally simplistic to think that OPL has funds to go shopping at the facility of their choice, given the restrictive funding of the project there was likely very few choices, while OPL probably hasn't played "the perfect game" CC's actions from a third party perspective has looked like out and out sabotage at times...

 

[MonkeyChops]

and just so my post isn't totally worthless...
here you go Titan:
http://www.change.org/start-a-petition

 

[coldfish]

Sabotage seems unlikely.

"Learn-As-You-Go" project management?

 

[Pleng]

Expecting priority service for such a small production run as Pandora is naive.

Except that CC is a small production facility, with the Pandora being one of the largest and most complex things they've ever done.

So the opposite argument applies:

expecting a small company to be able to deliver one of the most complex things they've ever done and keep to the time scales promised is naive. Just look at OPT as a perfect example!

Big fish in a small pond, small fish in a big pond - neither are good situations to be in. There's a lot to be said for the middle ground...

 

[chame]

this is turning ridiculous, 30+ months waiting

this is simply not worth for the money. if you plan to web browsing on the go, just get an Android + Data Plan.

and for playing, NDS + backup cart will give you thousands of NDS and GBA games, even emulators