I Cant Decide!

[Tobriand]

Surely you just stick a thing in the FAQ in answer along the lines of:

Can Pandora run Windows?
No. Pandora has an ARM processor. Windows, on the other hand, was written for a different sort of chip - x86. Expecting pandora to run windows is like expecting a gazelle to be genetically compatible with a chimpanzee.

 

[TaG]

this is a discussion forum, and I think we have the right to give our opinion over the extra care they need to take when advertising this unique product. B)

Agreed, and Ido understand your point about them needing to be clear about what it can and can't do.
QUOTE

see what are my concerns about what is advertised?
lots of other eeepc vs pandora topics confirm what I say is not absurd.
so I really think they have to be clear enough about what it can and what it can not do.

so you do agree there are two main problems with the current advertisement (not only from the developers, but also from the user base):

But this is the bit I am questioning. The forums aren't an advert and I can't see anything that is 'advertised' that is misleading - maybe if there is you could quote it.
I agree wholeheartedly that if something is misleading we should point it out to the developers.

My other point though is that it is difficult to quote exactly what it is and what it will do until it is nearer completion - recent addition of bluetooth being an example of how things change. At that point they will be able to say 'runs XYZ OS', comes loaded with 'asd, fgh and jkl' and is capable of 'zxc, vbn'. I think those involved are being cautious not to say it will do things unless they are certain.
The reason I included the link in my last post is that it backs up the point that even if you say to someone 'this is not a pc, it runs linux not windows, it plays these games but not these, it doesn't have Adobe flash (but may have something else) etc' there will be people that don't understand what you have said.

I also agree that comparing it to the eeePC is pointless / misleading, but due to some similarities and price there are going to be people that have to make that choice, so for them it is a valid / necessary comparison.


And by the time I'd finished my reply ^, Tobriand had put his comment, which is much better.

Surely you just stick a thing in the FAQ in answer along the lines of:

Can Pandora run Windows?
No. Pandora has an ARM processor. Windows, on the other hand, was written for a different sort of chip - x86. Expecting pandora to run windows is like expecting a gazelle to be genetically compatible with a chimpanzee.

I like the analogy :lol: :lol:

 

[Lodis]

I'm talking about playing wow, gta, using autocad/sketchup and little windows apps.
no source code, just plain x86 executables.
you will never, ever, be able to run them on your pandora. that's what I'm talking about.

Not to mention the Windows builds of N64, CPS3, Zsnes, Mame and classic games like Command & Conquer Tiberium Sun, Red Alert, Halo, Half-Life and many other great PC games.

 

[mafia-man]

my main concern here is stating the pandora is like a pc. no. that leads one to think it's incredibly powerful in terms of software (which is the case with windows-running pcs) and that's just false advertisement.

But it is a PC in every sense of the anacronym (yes I say anacronym and not anocrym in this case check a dictionary to see why) PC simply means Personal Computer. It's a single device capable of computations. Every thing from the ZX-81's (and earlier) right up to the latest Vista computer are PC's yes even the Atari ST, Amiga, and Apple Mac.

My concern is that people only consider a computer to be a PC if it has Windows on it, now thats false advertisement.

 

[Ravnos]

People are constantly asking about playing Windows games on the GP2X, too. Seriously, this is not the issue some of you think it is. Those posters get told, and then everyone moves on. Then some other n00b posts the same dumb shit and the cycle repeats.

 

[chad78]

WHAT SHOULD I DO! Or should I just an hero and get it over with?
After making me spend 20 minutes googling and reading urban dictionary and ensucklopedia dramatica to find out what the hell "an hero" is doing as a verb... You should probably just get the Eee PC, get off these forums, and go back to 4chan.

btw- YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG
It's "become an hero" not just "an hero".

 

[chad78]

That is not saying it is "a little pc".
No lots of people don't know what an ARM cpu is. Many also don't understand what open source or linux are. Or that Apple Macs don't run MS Windows. This little article shows how 'knowledgeable' some people are(n't): linuxjournal.com who cares.

"Apple Macs"? One or the other, dude, not both. It's either an Apple - or it's a Mac. "Apple Mac" sounds like some "We're trying to be healthy" garbage from McDonald's. And, I'm not sure where you've been for the past 3 years - but Macs can and do run Windows. In many cases better than computers designed for that OS.

PC = Personal Computer - always has, always will. PC ≠ IBM compatible. PC ≠ Windows. PC ≠ Desktop. PC ≠ Laptop. PC ≠ Intel or Intel Compatible. PC ≠ x86. PC = Personal Computer. See, that's why the letters are PC, and not WC or IC or x86 or LT or DT, but PC.

And, yes, the Pandora is a personal computer. It's not a server. It's not dedicated single purpose device. It's a computer meant to be used, in most cases, by a single person at a time, for a large number of purposes.

Even the acronym UMPC reinforces the broad use of PC. UMPCs do not all run Windows. UMPCs are not all Intel based. UMPCs are not all x86 based. For an example of all three of those being broken in a single UMPC - see the Nokia Internet Tablet series. They are ARM based, run Linux, and Intel is in no way involved - (nor is Microsoft or IBM or AMD). UMPC = Ultra Mobile Personal Computer.

Macs are PCs. Yes, I am familiar with the "Hi, I'm a Mac" "and I'm a PC" commercials. They are based on the popular misconception that PC=Windows.

PC ≠ download and install apps. PCs existed *LONG* before the World Wide Web - by over a decade. (IBMs and Apples, btw.)

The Pandora is a multi-function computer for personal use. That's a PC.

And, BTW, they are porting Ubuntu to ARM - so, yeah, you'll be able to install a major modern desktop operating system on the Pandora, and just download and install apps just fine. Maemo should work on it, too.

 

[Tom`]

...

"Apple Macs" is perfectly acceptable, if a little verbose - a Mac is an Apple-made brand, so it's just like saying "Microsoft Windows OS" - a little clunky, but correct.

Also, in the strictest sense a PC is always IBM-compatible, since it comes from the original IBM PC. It meant "personal computer" originally, but now it's almost always used in that specific sense.

I don't know what "UMPC" connotes in common usage now, but it too originally had a very specific meaning (defined and popularized by Microsoft), as an x86-based device running Windows. As far as I can tell, Nokia has never referred to the n800 series as a "UMPC," always as an "internet tablet," and those who do are doing so by analogy with the Project Origami devices. (there are 197,000 Google results for "nokia n800 UMPC" and 1,520,000 for "nokia n800 internet tablet").

So, while it's correct to describe the Pandora as an "ultra-portable personal computer," it may be misleading to refer to it as a UMPC...

Of course, the proverbial waters are muddied even more now that Macs are IBM-compatible.

 

[chad78]

Also, in the strictest sense a PC is always IBM-compatible, since it comes from the original IBM PC. It meant "personal computer" originally, but now it's almost always used in that specific sense.
That was never true.

The Apple ][ was advertised as a "PERSONAL COMPUTER"

From Wikipedia:QUOTE
Apple ran the first advertisement for the Apple II in the July 1977 edition of Byte — a two page spread ad titled "Introducing the Apple II" and followed by a third page that was an order form. The first brochure, was entitled "Simplicity" and the copy in both the ad and brochure pioneered "demystifying" language intended to make the new idea of a home computer more "personal." The Apple II introduction ad was later run in the September 1977 issue of Scientific American.
And here's the ad:

Is it me, or does that official original advertisement for a non-IBM compatible Apple computer describe it as a "personal computer"? {EDIT} Not just "a personal computer" - but *THE* Personal Computer. Seems like Microsoft isn't the first computer to steal shit from Apple.{/EDIT}

Neither "Personal Computer" nor "PC" was ever "officially" or "originally" used to describe only IBM-compatible computers. That's a myth.

And here's another Wikipedia quote about the Apple Lisa.QUOTE
The Apple Lisa was a personal computer designed at Apple Computer, Inc. during the early 1980s.
Not "the Apple Lisa was a home computing device" not "the Apple Lisa was a desktop digital calculating machine" - no... The Apple was a PC. Just like the ads said.

 

[Tom`]

...

They were advertised as "personal computers," not as "PCs." The term "PC" came into general usage with the IBM PC and its successors (PC/XT, etc), codenamed "Project Chess."

From the Wikipedia article on the IBM PC:
QUOTE
The term "personal computer" was common currency before 1981, and was used as early as 1972 to characterize Xerox PARC's Alto. However, because of the success of the IBM PC, what had been a generic term sometimes meant specifically a microcomputer compatible with IBM's products.


edit: it's true that the original IBM PC seems not to have been advertised as such in the first official advertisements, but there was the PC Jr, and Amiga ads of the same era refer to it as the "IBM PC," so it seems the name became common fairly early on - while I have never seen a reference to the "Apple ][ PC" or the "Apple Lisa PC" or even the "Amiga PC", it's never called anything but the "IBM PC."

 

[MarkoeZ]

i guess that closes the discussion

edit: apparently not

 

[.Gogeta§§J4BR.]

I'm talking about playing wow, gta, using autocad/sketchup and little windows apps.
no source code, just plain x86 executables.
you will never, ever, be able to run them on your pandora. that's what I'm talking about.

Not to mention the Windows builds of N64, CPS3, Zsnes, Mame and classic games like Command & Conquer Tiberium Sun, Red Alert, Halo, Half-Life and many other great PC games.

nah, I didn't want any of those anyway! [/fanboy] :lol:
ps: add sonic adventure dx and mugen to that list

 

[Chip]

Surely you just stick a thing in the FAQ in answer along the lines of:

Can Pandora run Windows?
No. Pandora has an ARM processor. Windows, on the other hand, was written for a different sort of chip - x86. Expecting pandora to run windows is like expecting a gazelle to be genetically compatible with a chimpanzee.

There is a phrase, which I may or may not have just made up, that says "You can't out-think an idiot." If you start trying to optimize everything for the lowest common denominator, you only end up dumbing down your project and there will still be somebody too dense to get what you're trying to say.

If somebody needs to be specifically told that a device with an ARM processor cannot run a desktop version of Windows, then maybe that device isn't for them. Maybe what they need is a DS or PSP where they don't need to do anything more complicated than stick in a cartridge and hit the power switch.

 

[jaycee900]

How very dare you put the words Amiga and PC so close together! I nearly choked on my poptart! (Cherry btw for those interested!)

I think though the easy answer to get back on topic is Pandora....if you come onto a Pandora forum and ask here then you have answered your own question...next!

 

[Pleng]

"Apple Macs"? One or the other, dude, not both. It's either an Apple - or it's a Mac.

Do what? Of course it's an Apple Mac! Just as I'm writing this on an Acer PC (or, if we want to be more precice, an 'Acer IBM Compatible PC')

Off Topic: Whilst you may not be referring to his grammar, if you are, I believe technically this is correct, for the same reasons that "an hotel" and "an hippopotamus" are - h historically counts as a vowel in English.

Sorry but that's just not correct.

H is most definately NOT considered a vowel and none of the exampltes you give are correct. H is, however, fairly frequently used as a silent letter, and thus words beginning with H can still bigin with a vowel 'sound':

an hOur
an hOnour

and in America you have an hErb

So, to summarise. If the word begin with a vowel SOUND, you use 'an', even if the word is not spelt with a vowel at the beginning.

 

[Tobriand]

In a word: Oops. Just looked it up in more detail, and yes, you're right. Although "an hotel" is, technically, correct, it's an anachronism based on a more french pronunciation of the word. "An hippopotamus" is just wrong. Sorry about that!

For those that want more information on the topic, askoxford has a good (and reasonable-sounding) answer to the question.

 

[Pleng]

In a word: Oops. Just looked it up in more detail, and yes, you're right. Although "an hotel" is, technically, correct, it's an anachronism based on a more french pronunciation of the word. "An hippopotamus" is just wrong. Sorry about that!

Hmmm I don't think that makes hotel technically correct. With the way the French pronounce (or don't pronounce) their H's, you could apply that theory to anything:

He is an 'ero
It was an 'ard task
It was an 'orrible day
I fly in an 'elicopter

or even...

I saw an 'ippopotamus



Hmmm (or just 'mmmm?) I think this is a case of a tad too far off-topic!

 

[charon]

It all depends how the H is said...if it's a hard H sound you say 'a'. If it's a silent H, you can say 'an'.

a history
an homage

 

[lubidog]

An hotel is correct though.

 

[Chip]

Are you really still arguing over the a/an rule? Not that this topic was particularly useful for anything, but let it go already.