How To Test Gp32 If Its 100% Working

[Drag]

Is it definately a hardware problem? I mean, you'd think it'd only be a few faulty BLUs, instead of an ENTIRE BATCH of them...

I was thinking it could be a form of protection, but it most likely is just a hardware glitch... but why only those two programs?

In the shot of the faulty screen, I noticed that the screen didn't just have a blue bar, but a bunch of other bars, and "ready" was echoed a few times... is that really how frodo's supposed to look, like it's some kind of menu bar, or is it just supposed to be a solid blue like the c64 is?

 

[Prophet]

Thank God I got my BLU from GP32Z instead of LikSang. I tested it with Frodo and no blue bars issue, it's totally normal looking. I must've gotten a unit made just before this last production batch. Phew! Lucky.

As for Game Park not being able to withstand the financial loss of this bad batch - well, maybe it will nudge them to get the GP32 2 out a bit sooner. Not only would a GP32 2 sell to new users, but many existing GP32 users would buy one too, so long as it offered what so many GP32 users are hoping for (more speed, more buttons, backwards compatible etc.).

 

[bast525]

Seriously... you guys are giving up and running back to Lik Sang just a little too easily here. Surely someone here could at least take a look at this thing in detail and possibly figure out what is causing the problem?

It could be some tiny little thing that Gamepark changed causing some kind of conflict with Frodo or other programs. How do you consider a system as faulty when it runs the software IT WAS INTENDED TO RUN just fine?? If homebrew software suddenly stops working, but commercial stuff runs fine... that really doesn't tell me the systems are defective.

On another note... this thing is really just like a little computer. Now, if you had a new computer running windows, and bougth some software and installed it and started having weird problems, would you call microsoft? No. You call the company that produced the software. If you had problems with multiple software (as in this case) then would you just take your whole PC back and demand another one? No, you would contact microsoft and start troubleshooting windows to see what might be the problem.


I'M betting this is an issue that you guys could fix yourselves. If it's not a software issue, than maybe it's something small in the hardware... maybe a different resistor was used for some stupid little thing. Or maybe it's a big thing, maybe gamepark has started using a total different main processory, in which case your problems will still not be solved. It would then fall back on the guys who've designed your software to adapt it to whatever new hardware Gamepark is using.


If it IS something Gamepark actually changed, and not a true defect, you guys are all going to continue being screwed as each new batch will most likely still be implementing whatever changes Gamepark has made.

Honestly I'm surprised that Lik Sang is accepting these returns at all. I know if you called Microsoft and said "hey I have these homebrew apps and they are suddenly not working with my new version of windows, please give me a refund" they'd laugh you right off the phone.......

 

[Prophet]

Seriously... you guys are giving up and running back to Lik Sang just a little too easily here. Surely someone here could at least take a look at this thing in detail and possibly figure out what is causing the problem?

It could be some tiny little thing that Gamepark changed causing some kind of conflict with Frodo or other programs. How do you consider a system as faulty when it runs the software IT WAS INTENDED TO RUN just fine?? If homebrew software suddenly stops working, but commercial stuff runs fine... that really doesn't tell me the systems are defective.

On another note... this thing is really just like a little computer. Now, if you had a new computer running windows, and bougth some software and installed it and started having weird problems, would you call microsoft? No. You call the company that produced the software. If you had problems with multiple software (as in this case) then would you just take your whole PC back and demand another one? No, you would contact microsoft and start troubleshooting windows to see what might be the problem.


I'M betting this is an issue that you guys could fix yourselves. If it's not a software issue, than maybe it's something small in the hardware... maybe a different resistor was used for some stupid little thing. Or maybe it's a big thing, maybe gamepark has started using a total different main processory, in which case your problems will still not be solved. It would then fall back on the guys who've designed your software to adapt it to whatever new hardware Gamepark is using.


If it IS something Gamepark actually changed, and not a true defect, you guys are all going to continue being screwed as each new batch will most likely still be implementing whatever changes Gamepark has made.

Honestly I'm surprised that Lik Sang is accepting these returns at all. I know if you called Microsoft and said "hey I have these homebrew apps and they are suddenly not working with my new version of windows, please give me a refund" they'd laugh you right off the phone.......

​

No way. If one or two programs don't work there's no telling what unwanted effects might also happen in other software, including seemingly OK commercial stuff. Game Park knows very well that homebrew is what sells GP32's. Especially retro emus like Frodo.

And making a remark about software "INTENDED TO RUN" is ridiculous and newbish. GP32 was designed and marketed from day one as an open source platform. Therefore it's INTENDED to run all the homebrew and emus just as much as the handful of commercial stuff.

If I had been so unfortunate as to have gotten a defective BLU, I'd be complaining just like these other folks. I wish them well and hope they get good units soon.

 

[bast525]

okay but does Gamepark design the system to run Frodo? Or do the Frodo devs design frodo to run on the GP32?


you do make a good point that the GP32 has been open source from the beginning, so it's not exactly apples to apples comparing with the usual commercial game systems or computers... but still, it is not designed to spec to work with whatever homebrews are out there. Gamepark can and probably does make changes to it's system any time it wishes to. How do they know that these changes will not affect some of the homebrew apps out there? Do you expect them to test any changes they make to their system with every app/emu/homebrew game out there and see if it has some effect? I say it's only their responsibility to make sure any changes they make are compatible with commecrial, licsensed stuff. If homebrew stuff doesn't work, it should be up to the homebrew guys to figure out the problem and adapt their software to the new hardware. It's this way with just about any other system on the market.


It makes a hard case for any other company that would look at designing an open source system. If Microsoft suddenly makes changes to the Xbox that make it not work with emu's, you complain to the guys who make the emu's, but when Gamepark does it, you want refunds or exchanges on your systems. Why would anyone make an open source system under these circumstances? Maybe gamepark made some change to cut costs, or maybe a certain part that they use to manufacture the GP was suddenly no longer available and they had to use a different part?


The fact still remains that the systems seem to work fine, and only a few homebrew things are having issues. Now if someone came in and said a commercial game was having this problem, then that'd be a different case. Anyways, I only started this whole point of view because I feel like... if any of you guys are like me, you really don't WANT to ship your systems out, pay for your own shipping, and be without your system for who knows how long. If there were some possible fix for this that I could do myself, something like a BIOS change or something like that, I'd rather do that. But no one is even looking hard enough at the problem to say "hey we can fix this easily" instead you guys just throw your hands up and give up. That's not really in the spirit of "open source" at all. Open source is all about figuring out, hacking into, whatever. I bet if someone here who knew what they were doing actually LOOKED into the problem, they'd be able to figure it out in a snap.

 

[bast525]

I didn't say they weren't MEANT for homebrew stuff, my point is that Gamepark can not reasonably be expected to test every last homebrew app out there to make sure they are compatible with their system any and every time they may make a change to the thing.

I understand the nature of the GP32 is pretty different from say, a PS2 or Xbox. But I also understand that the nature of the GP32 being open source can itself be the cause of problems like this. I just feel that it in a scene like this, revolving around such an open source machine, it just doesn't make sense for people to jump up and demand a refund at the first sign of a problem like this.


All I'm saying is... YES the thing IS open source. And in the same way open source means the ability to freely dev and create for the thing, why should it not also mean the ability to freely try to solve problems that arise with it, as well?

 

[bast525]

whatever dude. If anything I was not really trying to stick up for anyone, I was just trying to be helpful and suggest that you guys could maybe save some money, and keep your GP's that you just got instead of having to send them right back out and never even get to enjoy them, and maybe there could be some easy fix that would come quickly if someone, some dev-type-person just looked at the problem.

It could just be some easy patch, and everyone could do it in 30 seconds, and have their systems working 100% right then and not have to go thru the pain in the behind I'm sure they are going thru now to try to get lik sang to replace them. I know I would prefer a fix like this if the system I just ordered were having this problem... I HATE sending stuff back.

And you know, it's a really screwed up day when someone gets called a troll and gets flamed for simply speaking his point of view on an open forum. I didn't try to insult or flame anyone.

 

[DaveC]

Thank God I got my BLU from GP32Z instead of LikSang. I tested it with Frodo and no blue bars issue, it's totally normal looking. I must've gotten a unit made just before this last production batch. Phew! Lucky.

As for Game Park not being able to withstand the financial loss of this bad batch - well, maybe it will nudge them to get the GP32 2 out a bit sooner. Not only would a GP32 2 sell to new users, but many existing GP32 users would buy one too, so long as it offered what so many GP32 users are hoping for (more speed, more buttons, backwards compatible etc.).

​

Unfortunately I don't think it will make them do new hardware. If you have no money how can you invest in R&D? That is real expensive. They already have said they intend to release the current BLU to more Euro countries in 2005. I think Gamepark was intending on building up their coffers by selling the existing unit more widely and funding further developement with that. If anything this problem has set back developement of a GP32 2 I think.

 

[TelcoLou]

Some input:

I have a BLU, and have none of these issues ... Frodo runs just fine for me, no blue lines at all.

 

[pea]

Just my 2-cents, being one of the bunch with the 'faulty' blu units just now:

bast525 does have a point. It could be something really simple. I reada lot out there about 'banging the BIOS by bypassing it' to do all sorts of graphics routines etc. It could just be a new BIOS...

But then again, if I do reflash, and that doesn't fix it, or I try to do something else to my GP, then I might void my contract and NEVER be able to return my machine.

About commercial games - bast525, you mention that GamePark should only be concerned that commercial games work. But if I decided to sell GP-ultra-mega-tetris (made up, obviously) then it WOULD be commercial - where is the distinction? Commercial games use the same tools as homebrew - its not like homebrew stuff uses half-arse dev tools that work differently from commercial stuff.

If I bought a playstation, and some of the games didn't work on it because they changed manufacturer on some part, I would damn well complain, just like I am now when my GP won't run some of its games.

However, if it is only a couple of games, then I would completely be willing to keep my GP as it is now rather than go through the hassle of sending it back. Trouble is, Lik-Sang has a 10-day-after-delivery return policy, so if I found out, a couple of weeks down the track (I'm not using my GP until christmas) that tons of stuff didn't work with it, I would be screwed.

 

[bast525]

Just my 2-cents, being one of the bunch with the 'faulty' blu units just now:

bast525 does have a point. It could be something really simple. I reada lot out there about 'banging the BIOS by bypassing it' to do all sorts of graphics routines etc. It could just be a new BIOS...

But then again, if I do reflash, and that doesn't fix it, or I try to do something else to my GP, then I might void my contract and NEVER be able to return my machine.

About commercial games - bast525, you mention that GamePark should only be concerned that commercial games work. But if I decided to sell GP-ultra-mega-tetris (made up, obviously) then it WOULD be commercial - where is the distinction? Commercial games use the same tools as homebrew - its not like homebrew stuff uses half-arse dev tools that work differently from commercial stuff.

If I bought a playstation, and some of the games didn't work on it because they changed manufacturer on some part, I would damn well complain, just like I am now when my GP won't run some of its games.

However, if it is only a couple of games, then I would completely be willing to keep my GP as it is now rather than go through the hassle of sending it back. Trouble is, Lik-Sang has a 10-day-after-delivery return policy, so if I found out, a couple of weeks down the track (I'm not using my GP until christmas) that tons of stuff didn't work with it, I would be screwed.

​

Finally... some good counterpoints. Some REALLY good counterpoints. I hadn't considered the time-sensitive part of the issue at all, really, in that you only have a limited amount of time in which to send your system back like that. I made a pretty big mistake there, that does throw a wrench into my idea big time... you could stand by waiting, your warranty period could come and go, and maybe a 'do it yourself solution' never does get found and then you really would be screwed.

In that case I 'admit defeat' because if that is the case you almost have no choice but to return it asap, or you take the HUGE risk that the problem might not be solved and/or that it will end up being more than just a few homebrew apps that end up not working, and then you are just stuck with the system.

Well... for people who did not find out they had this problem right away, who may already be out of their 10 day return period or who lik sang will not allow a return for whatever other reason, I hope for them that someone still takes the time to analyze the problem and try to find a do it yourself solution.

And I still think it would just be very interesting for some dev-type-guys to really take a look at it and figure out just what is causing it if they could. But otherwise I rescind my argument and apologize if I offended anyone talking about giving up too easily.

 

[Winterkid]

If by some miracle I had found someone with a credit card willing to foot me the ca$h to pay the cost fully, and a defective unit had arrived here, I wouldn't have complained, but I'm sure I'd have gotten the RMA number and returned it, but I wouldn't have blamed Lik-Sang. They're a distributor, not a manufacturer.

The GP32 is like any other appliance that breaks down. If a mistake is made while THEY try to repair it, it's their responsibility to fix it. If WE as end users try to fix it ourselves and make a mistake, that just means you have to pay fully for all the repair costs, and they'll know most likely you were inside the unit. If the problem is a hardware malfunction, then all the CPU hacks and firmware flashing wont fix it. If Gamepark32 finds out the problem, then all the defective units could probably be fixed and the units can be resold at a reduced price, thus offering a WORKING BLU at a reduced cost. (I think it's called "refurbishing") This would increase the overall amount of working GP32's in circulation.

As a computer technician, I think returning for refund or eventual replacement of the units affected is best.

 

[pea]

I agree. And under different circumstances, I would agree with you wholeheartedly too, bast525

Lik-sang is not to blame. They don't even stock the units themselves by the looks (mine seems to have been shipped from Sweden). If Lik-sang was crap, I dare-say they wouldn't be around anymore.

I wonder if emailing gamepark(god) would provide an answer as to any recent hardware or BIOS changes?

 

[Winterkid]

Most companies that assemble computers, consoles and other circuit boards don't really make their own components, you're right. Normally they contract out for hundreds of thousands of various components they need, so this could all be from a switch in suppliers.

The reasons for switching could be anything from a less expensive product (possibly defective) to the old supplier asking for too much overhead to maybe the company needing only a certain amount of some products that the company doesn't sell in the quantity the company is looking for (eg... "we need 500 of X" "we only sell X in units of 1000 or more")

Also as for the symptom, it does sound like anything that uses the max clock rate or faster is when the glitch appears. If you give that as the reason when you return it, or you send it to wherever, they might locate the problem faster.

Do most of the other firmwares people have tried normally default to the maximum clock speed?

 

[catmince]

Not exactly the same but I bought a Brand new Cellphone and it was buggy, i.e screen going weird, freezing etc anyway All it needed was the Software upgraded so perhaps your gp32_console will be the same ^_^

 

[PiNa1971]

I read all Bat's posts and I agree with him ... from the logical point of view he's right. BUT: According to Liksang product page, there's a statement that BLU runs all kinds of emulators including C-64. And mine didn't and in case I bought it just for Frodo, I am screwed and I want my money back ... and yes, there's 10 days deadline for asking for RMA number. In this case, I am lucky I found out my unit is not 100% sooner than later.

I am not upset at all, that's the way life goes. And Liksang is just a dealer, even if they 'd test all units with supplied D&G game, they 'd not find any problems. So I dont blame them, if they take my faulty unit back and I will get a new fully working one, then I am a happy customer

The other thing is that flashing any different bios cause that lines immediately. I have got 1.6.6. if I am not mistaken. And even flashing 1.6.7. cause that lines, it means something is not right. But I am not willing to flash new bios and void warranty ...

I am really looking forward to hear what GamePark thinks about the whole situation.

 

[PiNa1971]

And I dont think current problems have anything in common with speed. I overclocked Atari ST emulator to 160Mhz and it worked fine with no lines for 10 minutes, no problems (had no time to test it longer).

 

[Jarska333]

How are Gp's put together? By robots, I assume. Now, if a soldering robot has a slight malfunction, it could produce a similar faulty solding in a batch of units, which might cause something like this...

So... has anyone opened their GP's? Any od looking solderings? h34r:

 

[Jekyll]

Yip, I have the same problem. I must have been one of the last to order before Lik-Sang removed the BLU from the site.

Hm, my mom ordered one for xmas for me, and said it went out a few days ago, so i'm also most likely to recieve a faulty one :/
I only hope lik-sang gets correctly working ones soon...

 

[Neptune]

I agree. And under different circumstances, I would agree with you wholeheartedly too, bast525

Lik-sang is not to blame. They don't even stock the units themselves by the looks (mine seems to have been shipped from Sweden). If Lik-sang was crap, I dare-say they wouldn't be around anymore.

I wonder if emailing gamepark(god) would provide an answer as to any recent hardware or BIOS changes?

​

They have warehouses around the country, that was just one of their warehouses...




Hey Jekyll, it's mastag from #gp32