hardware hacking friendly P2 [was: modular Pandora?]

[mclien]

From reading the forum and looking at the hardware hacks that exists for the P1, something crossed my mind:

As a question, it would be:

Do I want a finished Pandora with a totally fixed design or would it be acceptable to finish the assembling myself by having some options for the hardware setup (or even disassample it and assamle it in my "flavour")?

I'm clearly someone for the last Option AND would even pay a higher price for that.

Here are some ideas how to get it working, perhaps without raising the production costs:

the mainboard: I think it's possible to do some tricks here:

- intersecting connector options:

lets say you design the board for 2 USB ports and then place 4 microUSB in the same area, but in a way that none of the soldering pads intersect. The main setup of the ports is then defined by the soldering masks, solder resist mask. Modifing the hardware is than "just" desolder the standard usb ports, scrape free the soldering pads for the micro usb ports and solder it in.

- even easier is the same for the keyboard part. One could think of an setup with several options (aka conector pads for the keyboard mat), which then can be change by useing diffrend kinds of keyboard mats (and NO I didn't thought about the costs of a smal numbre of mats, but I thought of useing 2 of it cutted in the right shape)

- case:

main parts are upper and bottom part for each the Display and the mainboard housing. If taken modularity in account while designing it could be possible to just change the upper part for a diffrend key(board) layout. Or change the bottom part for either a bigger battery or for less highness by directly soldering in a LiPoly "bag" and spare all the extra layers an housings the currend design needs for the exchangeable bettery

Please comment:

completly nuts and impossible? (I don't think so)

must have?

not even worth a thought?

to much work?

more fails possible? (considering the errors from more options)

way to expensive?

mclien

EDIT:

forgot to mention: If enought intrest, I'll convince my son to do some blender art.

And I try to verify the PCB ideas with an expert (my wife)

 

[Klumpen]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/9934-pandora-2-is-modular/?hl=modular/URL]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/11971-modular-pandora-2/?hl=modular/URL]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/11875-why-we-need-a-modular-pandora/?hl=modular/URL]

 

[EssoAir]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/9934-pandora-2-is-modular/?hl=modular/URL]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/11971-modular-pandora-2/?hl=modular/URL]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/11875-why-we-need-a-modular-pandora/?hl=modular/URL]

That plus, to directly answer the OP remember that the more variations, the more expensive it gets and the harder it is to support the various configurations with the software. See: Every game on steam is 12+ gb to make them compatable with every possible configuration

 

[Hồng Thất Công]

From reading the forum and looking at the hardware hacks that exists for the P1, something crossed my mind:

As a question, it would be:

Do I want a finished Pandora with a totally fixed design or would it be acceptable to finish the assembling myself by having some options for the hardware setup (or even disassample it and assamle it in my "flavour")?

I'm clearly someone for the last Option AND would even pay a higher price for that.

Here are some ideas how to get it working, perhaps without raising the production costs:

the mainboard: I think it's possible to do some tricks here:

- intersecting connector options:

lets say you design the board for 2 USB ports and then place 4 microUSB in the same area, but in a way that none of the soldering pads intersect. The main setup of the ports is then defined by the soldering masks, solder resist mask. Modifing the hardware is than "just" desolder the standard usb ports, scrape free the soldering pads for the micro usb ports and solder it in.

- even easier is the same for the keyboard part. One could think of an setup with several options (aka conector pads for the keyboard mat), which then can be change by useing diffrend kinds of keyboard mats (and NO I didn't thought about the costs of a smal numbre of mats, but I thought of useing 2 of it cutted in the right shape)

- case:

main parts are upper and bottom part for each the Display and the mainboard housing. If taken modularity in account while designing it could be possible to just change the upper part for a diffrend key(board) layout. Or change the bottom part for either a bigger battery or for less highness by directly soldering in a LiPoly "bag" and spare all the extra layers an housings the currend design needs for the exchangeable bettery

Please comment:

completly nuts and impossible? (I don't think so)

must have?

not even worth a thought?

to much work?

more fails possible? (considering the errors from more options)

way to expensive?

mclien

EDIT:

forgot to mention: If enought intrest, I'll convince my son to do some blender art.

And I try to verify the PCB ideas with an expert (my wife)

I'm for it  

A little off topic, you've an incredible family!  But what about you?  A project manager telling your wife and son what to do?  That's nice since I'm having trouble telling my wife just to cook and my kids to not run around

 

[mclien]

I'm for it

A little off topic, you've an incredible family!  But what about you?  A project manager telling your wife and son what to do?  That's nice since I'm having trouble telling my wife just to cook and my kids to not run around

Son Aspie and crative nerd. My wife works at a PCB producing company. May main output is ideas and I'm quite good at CAD modeling and handcrafting unusual things (aka prototyping). (no website, but found this: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/88/img0031ll7.jpg/ was a modification of the abacus wrist PDA for a bigger battery).

And my workshop at the OHM2013: https://ohm2013.org/wiki/Workshop:CarbonFibreRings

And no my kids didn't hear either, but I sometimes convince them for thing that are worth working for...

Some Blender artwork from Joel (my son): http://sisam.sagitta.uberspace.de/index.php?content=blender.html

 

[mclien]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/9934-pandora-2-is-modular/?hl=modular/URL]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/11971-modular-pandora-2/?hl=modular/URL]

http://boards.openpandora.org/topic/11875-why-we-need-a-modular-pandora/?hl=modular/URL]

Ah, damn it. Was just to buisy to search bfore posting. Very embarrasing for myself. Sorry about that. But my mainpoint is actually to have one main assably with one piece-mainboard prepared for some heavy hardwaremodifications...

EDIT:

Ah no. All the threads talk about modularity in a way of exchageable PCB modules, RAM slots and so no.

My idea is one single board as in P1, but prepared with some extra soldering/key-pads. This way you can produce one version of board and case, but have options for "easy" hardware hacking.

BTW: wife says it's most likely possible to make such a PCB.

 

[mclien]

That plus, to directly answer the OP remember that the more variations, the more expensive it gets and the harder it is to support the various configurations with the software. See: Every game on steam is 12+ gb to make them compatable with every possible configuration

Not the way I ment it. Lets say the SoC has capability of 4 USB ports. standard "will" be 2 fullsize USB ports, but System finds 4 internal ports, pretty much like you find, when having a standard PC board where some of the ports only exists as connectors on the mainboard.

Disassamble your P2, desolder the 2 ports, solder in 4 microUSB ports onto the prepared pads, which are placed inbetween the pads of the full sized pads and you are done.

Same for the contact patterns of the keyboard mat: exsting on the board, but not all used..)

And yes I'm arware that will raise costs. But mainly during developing the board layout. Producing the board is nearly not notable (having some "spare" soldering pads is about in "some cent" range according to my wife).

 

[mclien]

BTW: is it possible to edit the thread title?

Like to change it in "Pandora2 harwarehacking prepared"

 

[Mr_Loon]

BTW: is it possible to edit the thread title?

Edit your first post and choose use full editor.

_________________________ 

I'd also love to see the concept of modularity embraced in the design for P2.

Though it's appreciated my pipe dream concept is a little too modular for most peoples taste.

However I'd love to see some consideration given to making the battery a separate module and the base be designed to be compatible with 3D printed case mods.

I understand that the current Pandora battery is to be used for P2, this is a good thing IMHO, I'd love to see the option though, of an extended battery, possibly 6000mAh. My guess is that with a modern SOC we'll need 6000mAh to get that all day gaming ability we know and love.

I'd also love to see an internal USB 3 header for attaching a mini flash drive or other mini peripheral.

 

[WizardStan]

The Pandora has many soldering pads already and hackable features: LED pads, GPIO, serial lines, i2c at both 3,3 and 5 volts, and additional pads for two more action or shoulder buttons. If there is anything in the SoC chosen that can be exposed I have full confidence that EvilDragon will see to it that it is exposed. If there are 2 additional USB ports that can simply be left as solder pads I'm sure they will be. If there are not then it simply wasn't meant to be.

 

[thatgui]

- intersecting connector options:


lets say you design the board for 2 USB ports and then place 4 microUSB in the same area, but in a way that none of the soldering pads intersect. The main setup of the ports is then defined by the soldering masks, solder resist mask. Modifing the hardware is than "just" desolder the standard usb ports, scrape free the soldering pads for the micro usb ports and solder it in.

I don't think that is possible due to size contraints - there is already barely enough space on the pcb to put everything that is "necessary" on it. And it is not about space for the sockets alone, you have to take the needed traces that connect those also in to consideration, and there are probably design guidlines for length and adjacent traces to achive optimal performance which complicate things even more.

- even easier is the same for the keyboard part. One could think of an setup with several options (aka conector pads for the keyboard mat), which then can be change by useing diffrend kinds of keyboard mats (and NO I didn't thought about the costs of a smal numbre of mats, but I thought of useing 2 of it cutted in the right shape)


- case:


main parts are upper and bottom part for each the Display and the mainboard housing. If taken modularity in account while designing it could be possible to just change the upper part for a diffrend key(board) layout. Or change the bottom part for either a bigger battery or for less highness by directly soldering in a LiPoly "bag" and spare all the extra layers an housings the currend design needs for the exchangeable bettery

A big "NoNo" to non exchangeable batteries, increases service time/costs a lot if you need to replace the whole case part instead of just sending the customer a new battery.


All in all your ideas have the problem that they increase costs a lot (by ordering even lower quantities of already low quantity parts), by providing benefits that only a small percentage of the userbase will use.

 

[Klumpen]

Everything about it I want to be modular is the screen and the nand (microSD).

And please more friendly to hardware hacks,

the current case does not open well at all,

but that should not be a big deal, because ED said ages ago, that the case will not be made in China again.

 

[mclien]

All in all your ideas have the problem that they increase costs a lot (by ordering even lower quantities of already low quantity parts), by providing benefits that only a small percentage of the userbase will use.

I think you miss my point nearly compledly.

What I say is this: Have in mind to be open/friendly for heavy hardware hacking. Which basicly means to consider it in the design of the board/case, which will raise DEVELOPING costs (I'm aware of that), but not production cost. Then produce ONE configuration of the pandora (e.g. 2 full site USB and sd card connectors) and leave everything else to the hackers.

This way you have a mainboard, which costs 3cents more and gain about 1000 pissibilites from that. Same applies to the battery: design the pads for the standard connector in a way that desoldering is easy and a hacker canchoose to remove the connector an solder in another lipoly battery and design a ew bottom case part. there you are with a pandora 5-10mm thinner.

Of course I'm talking ONLY about connetions that are offered by the SoC (and peripherials), everything els is stupid. but i think noboy ever had in mind to do such things like "hiding" pads for the micro sd cards beneth the full sized ones. Or even think of hiding one slot compledly insed the box (which isn't a to high prize in my oppinion, if thats the one to boot an alternative OS).

Plus my wife is used to design extra "crowded" PCBs (up to 14 layers, including blind and burried wires) and she said the Idea of "hidden" pads is perfectly doable and not rising teh board costs much. The mai tick is, as stated, toproduce ONE version to keep the costs down and have happy hardwarehackers for the rest.

 

[mclien]

I don't think that is possible due to size contraints - there is already barely enough space on the pcb to put everything that is "necessary" on it. And it is not about space for the sockets alone, you have to take the needed traces that connect those also in to consideration, and there are probably design guidlines for length and adjacent traces to achive optimal performance which complicate things even more.

most likely you won't gain much in tracing inbetween the pad area of the pad-pattern of a sd-card connector, while is easy to connet the micro sd inside that pattern, bacuase it's just a straight lineup from one to the oher)

Yes, thats VERY theoretical and all I suggest is to proof that concept... (Not by "I don't think so", but by "I tried to modified the board layout that way and IdeaA works IdeaB won't, have a look at my modified board and make improvements")

 

[thatgui]

I think you miss my point nearly compledly.

What I say is this: Have in mind to be open/friendly for heavy hardware hacking. Which basicly means to consider it in the design of the board/case, which will raise DEVELOPING costs (I'm aware of that), but not production cost. Then produce ONE configuration of the pandora (e.g. 2 full site USB and sd card connectors) and leave everything else to the hackers.

Plus my wife is used to design extra "crowded" PCBs (up to 14 layers, including blind and burried wires) and she said the Idea of "hidden" pads is perfectly doable and not rising teh board costs much. The mai tick is, as stated, toproduce ONE version to keep the costs down and have happy hardwarehackers for the rest.

I think I did understand you at least partially, but most of the things you suggest would require a partially redesigned case, and unless thats something the hacker should also take care of, it will increase costs per part.But I don't see were the extra space on the pcb should come from, most of the things you mentioned need space either on the top or bottom layer, which I guess is rather limited. You may put the additonal traces in another layer, but that is only possible if there is space left, and adding another layer just for that makes no sense.

Don't get me wrong these are nice ideas, but I can see this only realized in rather simple cases like a free gpio in or an led out not in more complex and space consuming cases like an additional usb port.

 

[mclien]

The Pandora has many soldering pads already and hackable features: LED pads, GPIO, serial lines, i2c at both 3,3 and 5 volts, and additional pads for two more action or shoulder buttons. If there is anything in the SoC chosen that can be exposed I have full confidence that EvilDragon will see to it that it is exposed. If there are 2 additional USB ports that can simply be left as solder pads I'm sure they will be. If there are not then it simply wasn't meant to be.

OK, here I firstly have to appologize for  being uninformt, ignorant and most likely dump to have missed the VERY obvious. Sorry for that.

Nevertheless it maked me change my path of tought in the right way.

 

[mclien]

OK, I'm to stupid use the forum. I have done a little ugly artwork to illustrade my idea and now I'm unable to upload media......

EDIT:

here is the link

http://postimg.org/image/qxyzgvra9/

 

[levi]

Some of the forums permit it and some don't - probably an oversight that that one doesn't. But you can just upload your pic to imgur or somewhere and include it here easily enough.

 

[fusion_power]

Maybe some parts could be modular or at least easy to remove, mainly for repair. There were some ideas in the past to make the Nubs socketable, so they can easily be removed. Not sure if this is still a possiblity with the new nubs but it could have advantages. I also can imagine to replace parts like the D-Pad mroe easy, the current one at the Pandora is glued, not that great solution imho because so you have to replace the entire keymat if the d-pad is broken or vice versa. 

Maybe the P2 could be designed to me more mudular for parts like LCD screen too, at last easy to replace broken screens and every part that could get broken. So I think more onto repairs instead of custom modules that users can replace.