Gpx2 Has Tv-out?

[Jarska333]

And for the next gen console i wont buy a new tv too, why. for some more pixels, they will be playable on normal tv too, if i want high resolution i play pc.

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Well it is more pixels, higher scan rate, more saturated colors, cleaner picture (no noise), all for much better detail. PC is ok but then you are playing on a keyboard at a desk and a smaller screen. An Xbox 360 on a nice big HDTV will be the best.

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Not for Civ IV.

 

[EvilDragon]

The chip has RGB but that doesn't mean their connector will deliver it. Look at the Nomad it had TV out but only composite, a real Megadrive had RGB. Then there was the N64 which had it internally but didn't deliver it to the connector (I know because I had to mod it with transistors and wire it up)

With the GPx2 they will almost certainly just go the cheap way and support the lowest common denominator which is composite/RF.

So I will re-phrase "TV Out is crap if it is only composite or RF, because the quality sucks"

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Errr... well... the CHEAPEST way would be using RGB wires, as the chip neither provides RF nor Composite out, so they'd need a converter for that.
Why the heck should they add a converter if the video out is already there?!

 

[DaveC]

Maybe the converter is in the form of a small box on the cable? I guess we will see, who knows what they will do. I would guess they would make it work with something everyone can use which is composite but it is too early to know for sure.

 

[White Demon]

It seems no one cares that this unit has a poor button layout for playing vertical MAME stuff, or a slow 200 MHz CPU and all they care about are movies. I for one have .00000001% interest in watching fuzzy low-res compression artifact ridden blurry movies through a crap RF cable on a shitty old TV, what a way to ruin the experience.

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That's because GPH have marketed the GPx2 from the start as a PMP that also happens to run homebrew.

As for your comment about no interest in anything other than HDTV, well good for you, there are others who either don't have the money or have other things for which they still need a standard TV so far. HDTV is still a few years away from being in standard use, as HD-DVD players are not even available yet (but by god I hop BLU_RAY wins that war, the protection methods used in HD-DVD is just to frightening to even think about, the BLU-RAY protection standard is MUCH better but that's the subject for a different thread) and I don't see the production/purchasing of rmovies on DVD slowing down just because HDTV is available.

What will it be anyway? PAL? NTSC? which ever it will end up will make it useless for one regeon.

It would be ok if this was added by an external accessory but having it built-in just overcomplicates things and adds cost for those that don't want it. It just uses more power, is one more thing to break, and may even hurt the quality of the built in screen by introducing electrical noise to the screen or causing it to be dimmer because of power requirements.

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I agree re PAL/NTSC, which is why I've posted a question about it to the curstomer suggestion board at gpx2.com. Let's see if I get an answer.

As for it being an external accessory, again I agree, maybe it could be a USB cable add-on. Still, even it it is built in, it would still be a welcome addition.

As ED noted, it'd just basically be few wires to a connector, straight via scart-cable to the tv. I should think rf-modulator would be more expensive.

RF-modulators weren't used in the NES/SNES era consoles because they were cheap, but because nobody, atleast in Europe, owned a tv with RGB-scart or S-VHS connection.

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And S-VHS is still not available in australia, as it never made it here. And SCART never made it here either, they are very few TVs/VHSs that have SCART (mine does, and I needed to get a converter plug so I can plug standard RCA cables into it).

What is meant by RGB? Is that like the component inputs (the Y-CB-CR stuff that DVD uses)? If so then that's OK, I'll just need to buy a TV that has those inputs. Other than that, if it's anything other than the standard composite video & audio RCA cables, it will be useless to me, because as I said above, S-VHS & SCART never made it here, and there only non SDTV/HDTV standards still in use here are composite and component.

As long as it's not RF though. I'm with DaveC on that one at least.

EDIT: but then again, ED said a few posts back that this will only be 320x240 (the GPx2's resolution) when run through they cables to TV, so what is the point in that? This thing is capable of running up to 720x576 but being scaled down to the GPx2's screen. I can understand that, but when being run out to a TV if it doesn't run at the res the avi is coded in, then the picture is still gonna look crappy and there will still be no point to it.

I hope you're wrong ED otherwise I might be joining DaveC's ramblings re picture resolution, as much as I don't want to.

 

[EvilDragon]

What is meant by RGB? Is that like the component inputs (the Y-CB-CR stuff that DVD uses)?

It's like this:
All TV stuff internally runs in RGB (each TV has a red, a blue and a green dot per pixel)
It uses a lot of bandwidth, so YCbCr has been developed, which is an encoded version of RGB (basically just some maths)
Basically, Y is the contrast channel (=G from RGB), Cr is R-Y and Cb is B-Y
Using this little trick, YCbCr has the same quality as RGB but uses less bandwidth.

S-VHS derived from YCbCr, it has an Y and a C signal, which is an encoded CbCr signal. Here you lose some quality regarding the color resolution.

From S-VHS derived Composite. It combines the Y and C signal from S-VHS, the C is encoded into the Y signal (that's why you have funny colors sometimes on TVs, when there are small grids in the picture (i.e. T-Shirts with grids printed on, etc.)).
Simply because sometimes picture information is confused with color information (depends on the frequency of the picture, but that's a bit too much now I guess )

So:
RGB and YCbCr = Best quality (that's what the chip in the gpx2 supports)
S-VHS = Middle quality (full contrast, but loses some color information)
Composite (CVBS) = Low quality (everything put together...)
RF = A way to transmit a lot of CVBS signals in one wire (used for antenna or cable TV... the people didn't want to connect one wire for each programme they wanted

YCbCr is mostly used in Japan and USA, whereas in Europe RGB is used.

EDIT: but then again, ED said a few posts back that this will only be 320x240 (the GPx2's resolution) when run through they cables to TV, so what is the point in that? This thing is capable of running up to 720x576 but being scaled down to the GPx2's screen.

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Well, to make it clear:
The chip SUPPORTS resolutions up to 720x576. But you need to USE it.
I guess GPH will not change the software too much and only mirror the output they usually send to the LCD to the TV. As the LCD only uses 320x240, that's all you would get then.
That's the easiest and fastest way to realize the TV-Out, and that's why I THINK GPH will be doing this. Otherwise they would have to rewrite a lot of code...

BUT: As this is just a software issue, the devs can change the resolution the chip has and make FULL USE of the 720x576 output.
So no need to worry.

You can compare it roughly to the overclocking from the GP32:
GamePark said, this thing has 66 MHz. All the software from them used 66MHz.
But the devs could easily code to use more than 66MHz.

 

[White Demon]

Thanks for all that ED, you're a well of information mate. Makes me feel a lot better about the GPx2 now. B)

 

[EvilDragon]

Always happy to help you

 

[Julius]

BUT: As this is just a software issue, the devs can change the resolution the chip has and make FULL USE of the 720x576 output.
So no need to worry.

Pheeh, you got me frightend for a second

If the TV movie output isn't 720x576 that would be really bad, but I hope you are right.

And I would be perfectly happy with it only supporting RGB, since most TVs support that today, and the quality is just a lot better.

 

[x68000]

just want to add that i'm all for the tv out feature. i have a nice 37" 4:3 CRT TV and it will give us a much improved experience over playing on a pc monitor as the res will be more native on the tv and more genuine to the original systems as long as they are being competently emulated.

as a sidenote: I'm already running a 43" hdtv plasma and have a hdtv satellite receiver and with the channels i can receive in the hdtv format so far, i am less than convinced. I'm sure time that this will improve greatly - here's hoping!

 

[Prophet]

Well I think the tv-out would be very cool. I wish my PSP could do that.

I have an ancient Amiga monitor sitting in my bedroom, and it would be pretty cool if I could just plug my GPX2 into that and play NES or whatever.

How much will the cable cost though?

For example, the Dell Axim x50v PocketPC has optional TV-out as well, but the cable costs like $80! <_< I doubt the cable for GPX2 would cost that much - hopefully we're looking at maybe $20 or less. Then it would be a must-buy add-on.

 

[LDChen]

I hope they will provide *ALL* capabilities of the hardware at least on the PCB, not only the one you are discussing about.
I can see things like video_in, camera, microphone, JTAG (please...), ADC, UARTs and others.
If these things would be easily available, an user with minimal experieces with hardware can upgrade his console himself by soldering few components or connectors, and he will pay few coins for it.
Technically, providing all these on the printed circuit doesn't cost.

Let's hope that people behind the GPX2 will do it in the best way!

Sincerely,

LDChen

 

[Sonic-NKT]

yeah, what i really hope for is setting the usb to host mode like on the gp32, that would be really usefull with this system. the gp32 has not enough ram for a graphial webbrowser, but the gpx2 has enough for a whole linux pda system.
It would be even quite cool to use the GPX2 as computer
use a tv as monitor and connect a USB hub with mouse, keyboard and wifi.
ok nothing portable anymore, but i like to play with my consoles.

 

[Julius]

I might be wrong, but I think the GPx2 USB port ist just like the one in the GP32 (except it is USB2.0).

The GP32 USB port isn't Powered either, because that is just not feasable with 2AAs supporting it.

But there was a hack to externaly power it for the GP32 and the same could be done for the GPx2, and of course there are also externally powered USB hubs, which will probably (or better hopefully) work like a charm with the GPx2.

 

[Cyclops]

I might be wrong, but I think the GPx2 USB port ist just like the one in the GP32 (except it is USB2.0).

The GP32 USB port isn't Powered either, because that is just not feasable with 2AAs supporting it.

But there was a hack to externaly power it for the GP32 and the same could be done for the GPx2, and of course there are also externally powered USB hubs, which will probably (or better hopefully) work like a charm with the GPx2.

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I REALLY hate my GP32 USB cable, I for one would insist on a proper USB cable. Then I can just buy the length I want.

 

[x68000]

or you could just buy a USB extension cable to add on for a couple of quid.

 

[polooo2]

HDTV would be an overkill for SNES and other emus on GPX2


Same goes for the movies as tv-out mirrors that of screen resolution

plus most traditional TV only has 640X480 res.



Most of PS1 games are only 320X240 but prerendered movies like ones in FF7,8,9 and many other games still look superb so I don't think the quality will be an issue as long as frames are high and smooth.



I'd really like external pad options thru extention port so I can plug in my PS2 pads, old console pads or custom sticks, but I doubt that will happen. Nonetheless I would really like to see something like that happen.

 

[Alpha2]

or you could just buy a USB extension cable to add on for a couple of quid.

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Personally I'd also rather they use a regular USB cord I HATED the old one because I kept thinking what if it gets a short or what if I lose it, I've never herad of anyone on this forum ever getting a replacement and no request for a place where they could be bought was ever answered (that I saw).... And Now I cant even find my cable! I'm just glad I have a decent card reader so I dont need it anymore.... atleast untill I discover a reason to need it again in which case I'm shit outta luck. I'll never understand what they were thinking.

At least with the PSP even though they don't give you the USB cable I still had like 3 of them laying around just because it's such a standard connection.

 

[Prophet]

plus most traditional TV only has 640X480 res.

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Standard NTSC had 255 lines of resolution. Some got cut off, so that's why classic consoles usually output between 200 and 240 lines of resolution, usually 224.

You could do 640x480, but only by interlacing the lines. Which is why using VGA tv-out from a PC on an old TV flickers like mad.

Anyway, if GPX2 can just output standard composite and/or s-video I'd be very happy. Most classic consoles only had RF and composite output afterall. So if anyting it's more accurate for our purposes.

 

[Jr2swiss]

They will be using s-video

 

[Jarska333]

Nice to get some facts in-between speculation.