Gametrac

[Efompor]

yeah nobody will ever make them like GamePark does... unless one of us GP32 fans decides to become an entrepeneur. All these companies THINK they know what is going to be appealing and what isnt, but honestly the only way I can find the Gametrac appealing is if they completely change the design, remove the "Smart Ads" (ugh), make the screen bigger, and make it open source. It's going to be like the N-Gage I can tell. The "smart ads" and "GPS for child safety" are the biggest turn offs. The best possible handheld formula is the GP32 style hardware (superior) mixed with the GBA style (massive amounts) of commercial games. Gametrac is kind of straying from both of those paths, unfortunatly...

 

[khephren]

If i want a PS2 i will buy one (well i have)

I hope to hell this thing falls flat on its ass, Sony need to be taught you can't release any old crap and hope it sells.

THe hardware is not similar enough to allow direct ports from PS2, and Sony are discouraging this anyway (It will use a lot of nurbs rather than polys, although the screen output will probably be polygons). Potentialy the machine has the potential to be better than the PS2- especialy in terms of the Development process, which will be more library specific than the PS2 (like the PS1, rather than banging the hardware like the PS2).
I'm not going to slag it off (even though i'm not keen on mega corporations), it is one of the few hopes left to the small developer (many of whom have gone under, especialy in the UK, because of inflated team sizes, expensive dev kits, and having to pay the machine manufacter a slice of the pie because their hardware sells at a loss, so they claw it back from the games developer)

You may not realise but sony are taking a risk with this, they are selling it at a profit, so they don't have to grab money of us poor developers. And they have made it easier to program for so small teams can exist. Have you noticed any many safe and shit sequels are coming out at the moment? It's because the risk taking small developers are out of business, at least sony are trying to change this, Nintendo certainly won't.

S if it does fall flat on it's ass,you can kiss goodbye to any originality, and sit playing SNES remakes for GBA for evermore- and paying over the odds for them.

 

[BaDToaD]

Just out of interest with all this discussion of screen size does anyone know the screen resolution? I've had a quick look about the web and there's no mention of res just size. If the res is low then that'll make the thing a waste of space IMHO. Squashed emulators etc.

 

[Daz_Genetic]

If i want a PS2 i will buy one (well i have)

I hope to hell this thing falls flat on its ass, Sony need to be taught you can't release any old crap and hope it sells.

What a stupid fucking thing to say. I rarely get time to play games at home because I work freelance. Handhelds are about the only way I can get a chance to play games, so I am stuck playing retro games. Though V-Rally 3 on the GBA is pretty good considering.

I admire sony for pushing handhelds to the next level. It will force nintendo to add 3D chipsets to their next handheld and soon we will be playing a Mario 64-like game on the move.

I am basically annoyed that the GBA's specs are not 10 years ahead of the Game Gear and Atari Lynx. The GP32 is a good step, but it needs a dedicated gfx processor to really shine. I wait on the PSP with money in hand, ready to buy it as soon as I can get my hands on it. (as long as it doesn't look like that shitty concept model they made)

 

[The Mole]

HAHAHAHAHA

If im stupid you must be a f^cking moron if you think Sony are pushing handhelds to the next level.

All they are doing is copying all the good points from the GBA and PS1 updating the specs.

Nintendo are pushing handheld gaming forward with the Nintendo DS. Oh and do not just take my word for it http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/viewtopic.php?t=20652

If Nintendo was not about for Sony to steal their ideas then the PS1/2 would NOT be here. After all the PS1 started out as an idea by Nintendo.

Oh and you clearly know bog all about gaming if you think graphics are the most important part of the game.

Nintendo will not be forced to do anything if they do not think its right. The prime examples are online gaming and adding low quality DVD players to their consoles.

 

[Alpha2]

:rolleyes:

 

[Deep Thought]

Pushing hardware forward with the DS? "Oh my God, I can look at maps on my uber-cool SECOND SCREEN! Woohoo, something else to break...

 

[The Mole]

In 12 months time i will make you eat your words so choose them carefully.

The second screen is going to be used in a way that pushes gaming and every developer has said that. Take a look at the url i posted its got comments from some comments from some very well respected people in gaming. If the new screen was to be used for just showing a map would it have the developers this excited?

Nintendo has to get this 100% right or they will be in trouble, i know Nintendo would not go ahead with it if their was even 1% of doubt in the company.

What are Sony doing to push gaming forward?

high specs is not pushing gaming forward, thats improving graphical quality and some other stuff but thats about it.

Sony are adding things to the PSP to push the price up, oh lets add an mp3 player to boost the price up anoother £100, oh an DIVX player another £70.

Where have most of the original fun and new ideas for gaming come from ? Nintendo

I can't think of 5 first party Sony games that are worth owning.

 

[kotd]

Ha mole you crack me up with your nintendo fan boy loving. The GBA is a pile of crap I own one and all of their handhelds are and were. The PSP will obviously sell like hotcakes because well the reasons are obvious. I'll buy one as soon as it comes out and nintendos new portable? I think they've lost their marbles in desperation of the PSP's coming. h34r:

 

[Alpha2]

Dude, you call slapping an extra screen on an innovation? All they're doing is rehashing the old Game & watch things they had back in the 80's. If that's all they've got they dont have much of anything. maybe if it had an onboard HD came with a dev kit and acutally did have the GPS and touch screen the rumors are saying it has, it just MIGHT be interesting, as it stands it's probably no better than the GBA just with an extra processor to display the extra screen.

A higher power hand held system with 3D and real/useful features and a large devloper base is more like likly to survive compared to a GBA with an extra screen that dosent even play GBA games. The ngage was innovative, a cell phone with the capacity for more than just Galaga but it also had a dopey/ugly design and no worth while games and piss poor graphics. Right now the only thing the DS has is the assurance that whatever games it gets won't be ugly.

Who knows maybe Nintendo will pull a rabbit out of their asses and succeed with it but it's not looking very good for them yet.

 

[khephren]

HAHAHAHAHA

If im stupid you must be a f^cking moron if you think Sony are pushing handhelds to the next level.

All they are doing is copying all the good points from the GBA and PS1 updating the specs.

Nintendo are pushing handheld gaming forward with the Nintendo DS. Oh and do not just take my word for it http://ntsc-uk.domino.org/viewtopic.php?t=20652

If Nintendo was not about for Sony to steal their ideas then the PS1/2 would NOT be here. After all the PS1 started out as an idea by Nintendo.

Oh and you clearly know bog all about gaming if you think graphics are the most important part of the game.

Nintendo will not be forced to do anything if they do not think its right. The prime examples are online gaming and adding low quality DVD players to their consoles.

*rant on*
Jesus christ, you really don't have a clue do you? There's a good chance Nintendo will be pulling out of hardware in the next couple of years. Now I like their games, but it's about time they became a publisher only. Their constant fleecing of developers by charging astrononical rates for custom media hasn't helped them any. There are very few third party developers left for them to turn to.

Listen carefully, i'll say it again: the machine is more like a PS2. It's got almost fuck all in common with a 16mhz GBA (sorry about the language guys, this bloke is getting on my tits)

And you know bollock all about games if you think graphics aren't important, otherwise you would still be using a NES and greyscale gameboy.

*rant off*

on a different note, I would have liked to have seen Nintendo and Sega develop a machine between them. Everyone would have flocked to it.

 

[The Mole]

But graphics are NOT the most important part of the game.

Without good gameplay a game is NOTHING. What made Tetris so popular? it was not the graphics was it?

I agree that the GBA is a very poor console, its got a couple of gems like Mario and Luigi and Golden Sun.


khephren can you back up your information with some proof please?

I can give you quotes from Miyamoto and a few other people within Nintendo Japan saying they would rather go under than develop for another system.

Nintendo has more than enough from Pokemon alone to survive a failer.

What i was meaning was the design would be like the GBA just watch. Sony have brought NOTHING to gaming.

S if it does fall flat on it's ass,you can kiss goodbye to any originality, and sit playing SNES remakes for GBA for evermore- and paying over the odds for them.

Where the hell was Sony going to suddenly develop originality from?
Also why was it that Timesplitters 1 was one of the first games anounced as coming to the PSP?

Hello this is the pot calling.

I agree the PSP will proberly sell but stand by my statement that its not pushing gaming forward.


Alpha2


LOL slapping an extra screen on an innovation well no it is what will be done with the screens that will make the DS a hit.

Namco's Yoshizumi
- When I first heard it would have 2 screens, I thought it was a Game & Watch remake, but on further inspection I found it is different
- I'm excited by it, and I also have an overwhelming feeling
- As a creator, I'm being asked for ideas
- I think the hardware will be very good at creating intense feelings

Clear that nobody looked at my link. Now i would say the developers are in a far better position to judge than you.

 

[pip]

Sony have brought NOTHING to gaming.

Sony made gaming hip with their marketing and games for the PSX, such as Wipeout. Compare the Nintendo ads at that time with those from PSX and you will see.

 

[The Mole]

Oh come on thats not bringing something to gaming though is it?

I would even argue that gaming was cool well before the PS1 anyway.

 

[Daz_Genetic]

I agree that games are not all about graphics, but it certainly helps.

You keep comparing the PSP to the PS1, but you forget one thing. The PSP is a handheld dummass. It will be multiple times better than the PS1 on top of that. Never before will you have had the opportunity to play proper hardcore 3D games on the move. I for one am looking forward to that. You are a dick if you think that kind of power in a handheld isn't revolutionary.

You also say I know nothing about games, but infact I work for one of the top independant developers in the UK, Evolution Studios. Their stuff is published by Sony so I know a few things you don't, and all I can say is that you will be the one eating your words. As a developer, I can say that if you want to make a game, you want to make it for a nice fast machine. Say you are making a driving game, with a slow processor, you can fake a lot and come up with a reasonable physics model for a car. But if your machine has a dedicated Vector unit that is super fast at calculating 3D vector/matrix maths, you can push things a lot further and come up with a realistic simulation. With me, immersion is all about realism. Nintendo make some cool games, and I admire a lot of the stuff they have done, but I really don't believe their hardware is even remotely revolutionary.

The Nintendo DS is interesting, and I certainly will buy it when it comes out, but I can guarantee that I will be playing the PSP a lot more.

 

[khephren]

But graphics are NOT the most important part of the game.

Without good gameplay a game is NOTHING. What made Tetris so popular? it was not the graphics was it?

I agree that the GBA is a very poor console, its got a couple of gems like Mario and Luigi and Golden Sun.


khephren can you back up your information with some proof please?

I can give you quotes from Miyamoto and a few other people within Nintendo Japan saying they would rather go under than develop for another system.

Nintendo has more than enough from Pokemon alone to survive a failer.

What i was meaning was the design would be like the GBA just watch. Sony have brought NOTHING to gaming.

S if it does fall flat on it's ass,you can kiss goodbye to any originality, and sit playing SNES remakes for GBA for evermore- and paying over the odds for them.

Where the hell was Sony going to suddenly develop originality from?
Also why was it that Timesplitters 1 was one of the first games anounced as coming to the PSP?

Hello this is the pot calling.

I agree the PSP will proberly sell but stand by my statement that its not pushing gaming forward.


Alpha2


LOL slapping an extra screen on an innovation well no it is what will be done with the screens that will make the DS a hit.

Namco's Yoshizumi
- When I first heard it would have 2 screens, I thought it was a Game & Watch remake, but on further inspection I found it is different
- I'm excited by it, and I also have an overwhelming feeling
- As a creator, I'm being asked for ideas
- I think the hardware will be very good at creating intense feelings

Clear that nobody looked at my link. Now i would say the developers are in a far better position to judge than you.

>>Without good gameplay a game is NOTHING. What made Tetris so popular? it was not the graphics was it?

True, but generally the public like good graphics, and that is what will force the new hardware cycle.

>>I agree that the GBA is a very poor console, its got a couple of gems like Mario and Luigi and Golden Sun.

yep, but you must admit there are a lot of SNES remakes.

>>khephren can you back up your information with some proof please?

The comments buy nintendo president in the news last week that they were considering droping out of hardware, then when their shares started plummeting he hastely retracted his statements seeing he had been misquoted (which is possible, but the fact it may be true is as well)

>>I can give you quotes from Miyamoto and a few other people within Nintendo Japan saying they would rather go under than develop for another system.

It's not his decision to make, it's all down to shareholders and profit. I don't think they will drop out of handhelds-but I COULD see them making nintendo licensed
xboxes.

>>Nintendo has more than enough from Pokemon alone to survive a failer.
True, but share holders would prefer to drop a hardware devision to take profits higher. Most of them are old japenese business men who don't give a shit about games, only money.

>>What i was meaning was the design would be like the GBA just watch. Sony have brought NOTHING to gaming.

Yes, there aren't that many ergonomic designs for a handheld, and the SP does look flash (looks a bit Sony in fact, if you compare it to all their previous consoles)

>>Where the hell was Sony going to suddenly develop originality from?

It'll be the developers, not sony. The GBA specs were not high enough to allow for a lot of inovation.

>>Clear that nobody looked at my link. Now i would say the developers are in a far better position to judge than you.

I am one, thanks (and yes, ive developed for both N64 and GC). And on 'the chaos engine' industry forum's,even die hard nintendo developers are wondering what nintendo are doing. But, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating, IF great new gaming concepts come from this idea, it's to be applauded. we will have to wait and see.

phew, that was a long one.

 

[Dozer]

Sony have brought NOTHING to gaming.

Sony made gaming hip with their marketing and games for the PSX, such as Wipeout. Compare the Nintendo ads at that time with those from PSX and you will see.

Dude, wipeout *made* gaming cool!

Edit: In a slightly nerdish sort of way i spose :blink:

 

[Alpha2]

I've read that article long before you posted the link, it still dosent give me the impression that a developer will make DECENT use of a sceond screen. If the guy from konami feels like he;s only being asked for innovation NOW then he's just lazy.

Nintendo: Man, all these developers keep making the same games... HEY! let's add a second screen and dare them to do something with it.

Developers: WOW! an extra screen! I'm beside myself with new ideas!

It's rediculous to think that just because the new screen is there that they will come up with INTERESTING uses immediatly, right now all these developers are sitting around going "umm okay so what ARE we going to do with it? Map screens and....uhhh" And if they dont come up with something quick they'll just spit out a racing game with a rear view mirror and invalidate the whole idea of a second screen with stupid boring ideas.

Dont get me wrong, I dont doubt one or two people will create some amzing thing that no one ever thought of before but I cant see EVERY developer doing that. And once those two or three innovative uses pop up, 75% of the other games to come after it will most likely rip off the concept because it's easier than innovating on their own.

 

[Efompor]

some REAL innovation would be to make a handheld in complete 3d. No not 2d 3d, I mean complete IMAX-type 3d. The type of handheld where you turn it on and the logo comes out at you so quick that everybody falls down. I've done a project on an invention that actually displays things in full 3d with absolutely no 3d glasses. The invention was called the "Illusion Transmitter" and was made by Valerie Thomas in the mid 80's. It was basically a TV with concave mirrors and other thingamajigs inside of it that displayed an odd 3d picture out at you, making people seemingly jump out of the TV screen out at you. More info about that here. It's really actually very interesting, I've always been turned off by 3d because of the glasses. Other than that, I love it it's amazing. I love IMAX theaters. Like when an actor cracks a whip and it flies out and seemingly hits you in the face. You're like "WOAH" and you nearly fall out of your seat :lol:

Yeah sorry, I'm just thinking aloud. But a handheld like that WOULD be the sweetest thing ever, the screen would be built in so no problems there, and they already make 3D glasses that hook up to your video card already and display it's 3D out at you. they're called E-D glasses, I think I might get them to play DooM III with the lights out h34r:

 

[The Mole]

I understand what you guys are saying and it is a bit hipocritical of me to say this but i do not think you should underestimate what Nintendo has instore.

I never got to play a Virtual Boy but thats the kind of pushing gaming forward that iw ould like to see more of.

For me gaming in its current form is losing its edge and i can only see Nintendo trying to do new things, everytime they try something new they get slated for it, however when they released the GBA the public were slagging them for trying nothing new.

I will be the first person to admit that their is A LOT of SNES remakes on the GBA but if you look at the Nintendo games apart from the Mario Advance series theirs not been a whole lot else.

You guys should know more than anybody that developers are out to make a fast buck and porting a game they have is a cheap and effective way of making more profit. I am not defending the developers here but their is a real shortage of ideas at the moment so porting what the yhad was the only option for some of the smaller studios.

I have a deep hatrid for Sony ever since i had a series of problems with my PS1 and portable mini disc. Their products are so shoddy yet they charge more than a good company (quality wise) like Panasonic or even Awia. Not only that Sony have NO hands on experence with gaming ( sounds a bit weird but i can't phrase it better). With Nintendo and even Microsoft (who i hate more than Sony) you feel like they work with the gamers to produce something unique and new thats also fun to play. Sony will release a bunch of crap and hope it sells, their is so much crap on the PS1 and PS2 that it more than out numbers the good.

Sony are also good at stealing ideas and try and pass them off as their own.

I feel that Sony are only in gaming for the money and the second it becomes unprofitable for them they will jump ship, Nintendo will always fight on and try and push gaming in diffrent ways.




Alpha2

I agree 100% that you will get the lazy developers most likely EA and other big companies that do NOTHING with the double screen idea but even if you get 10 unique games that are good then surely it will be worth the asking price.


Dozer

I don't think it was just Wipeout as that was on the N64 and that was not classed as cool.


khephren

Without Miyamoto Nintendo would crumble he drives new ideas in the company, if Nintendo were forced to go third party then you would see a drastic fall in quality kind of like Sega and Rare now they have left the cluches of Nintendo.