Sales Everything so far seems a little unprofesional.

[spaceballs3000]

just got my refund, I plan on buying it again, but I don't like the fact that I decide not to buy it now I would be out $65.12 dollars.

I just found older threads on this topic "http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?showtopic=45478" and after reading all of them, I have to agree on some people topics.

1. Selling item for profit = Real business: they need to not use Google to send emails.
2. Nothing on the main page about status & delays (have to read blogs and forums) = Fail.
3. No details on email on when CC page will be back up or link, or even the amount to pay? = Unprofessional.
4. Direct Bank Deposit is not customer friendly, i.e. no shipping product = hard to give money back if merchant resists.
5. If bank is the cause of problems, I would have stated which bank causing it, and for customers to send their complaints too.

I run my own small business, and they could have gotten an CC processing system in place for likely ~$20\month with 1-5% per transaction, and not have had this banking problem in the first place. They need to put more thought into how they do things, or things will go bad. Also sounds like they should have push harder on the bank they were working with when they bank starting messing up. If bank wasn't refunding original merchant fees (like they said) then they would meet a lawyer very quickly.

I hope for the best here on out, and that they have no more bad hiccups. If they stumble on this thread I hope they understand their past shortfalls.

My Refund on 12/06/2008
Gp32 Distribution Battersea
Foreign Currency $197.77 GBP
-$289.03
1% Int'l Service Fee
-$2.89

My Purchase on 10/01/2008
Gp32 Distribution Newcastle Upo
$353.50
1% Int'l Service Fee
$3.54

 

[raj_takhar]

The Open Pandora Development team are as professional as you can get for a bunch of Devs launching such a project as the Pandora

You are not really losing out as you still buy at the original purchase price

You need to bear in mind all the changes which have happened in the worlds financial markets

Remember a few months back the dollar was $1.98 against the UK pound, now its worth alot less - which actually means the OpenPandora team lose out big styles

Just imagine how much money has flowed in then needed to be directed towards implementation costs, and consider whilst these costs are still there, the Devs are now in the process of refunding, transferring banks and setting up CC pages

Be sensible they are a great team and deserve some respect - could your company, get a high standard design as the Pandora, built and shipped for the price they set - no freaking way

Yes the delays are a pain in the ass with this project - but then the GP2X F100 was not a bag of roses either

Have patience all will come through

 

[spaceballs3000]

"Open Pandora Development team are as professional as you can get for a bunch of Devs"
You prob hit it on the money, at the time of the orders, they likely needed someone with a business background that could focused on the sales\customers business sides of things. But being a smaller company didn't have the resources, thus mistakes like that happen.

"Remember a few months back the dollar was $1.98 against the UK pound, now its worth alot less - which actually means the OpenPandora team lose out big styles"
Please explain this? The only thing I can think how they would loose out, if they got all the BOM (bill of materials) from US companies after the pound went down. If they were lucky, when they got all the orders in, they bought all the expensive BOM parts right away (excluding the PCB and ABS case) before the pound went south, then they might come out more ahead then placing BOM parts afterwards.

"Just imagine how much money has flowed in then needed to be directed towards implementation costs, and consider whilst these costs are still there, the Devs are now in the process of refunding, transferring banks and setting up CC pages"
Yep I imagine it be overwhelming, but as a personal thing (smaller business) I would have started out on a smaller scale 100-500 units.

"Be sensible they are a great team and deserve some respect - could your company, get a high standard design as the Pandora, built and shipped for the price they set - no freaking way"
Respect is earned, not given, given their past projects I do respect them, but they should expect feed back also when customers start to feel something is wrong, otherwise how would they ever know? Yes my company could likely build something like it, I get labeled "Genius" and "Miracle guy" by high up people in billion dollar companies when I'm able to deliver custom tailored hardware+firmware to them in very short time (in units of 10-100.) But alas I lack the firmware connections to open source devs for the OMAP so in the end hardware wise it could could be done in few months (5-8), but the firmware would be hardiest for my company (lack of knowledgeable firmware devs to find.)

"Have patience all will come through"
I do, but if it happens too much and often, we should also know when to cry wolf.

 

[mali]

@MOD

Please close this thread!
I'd rather want this place to stay wasteland, than turning into the same crimson pool of bitching gp32x is now.

 

[spaceballs3000]

@MOD

Please close this thread!
I'd rather want this place to stay wasteland, than turning into the same crimson pool of bitching gp32x is now.

Didn't think some logical thought out comments would make a person cry for MOD. If it makes you feel better, I've already left my thoughts on this matter, and I'll not reply back anymore to this thread.

P.S. Gerd if you really want to close\lock the tread, you have to click the "report post" button, yelling out "MOD" doesn't send them a notice.

Have a nice day!

 

[mali]

I won't report a post(because there is nothing wrong with it). It was more meant like a (loud) statement :wink:
No offence

 

[Exophase]

Yeah, it's not an ideal situation by any means. Fortunately for the Pandora team, they've won over a bunch of people who are willing to wait it out no matter what (and they did make some concessions, like the additional RAM). The ones who are unhappy with how things have turned out thus far will just have to be won back when things do work out. Whether or not you agree with how things have been done so far (I'll abstain comment on that one) I think that there's good evidence that it will work out decently; it's just a matter of time.

Over ambitious they may be, but I think considering who they are they're doing a decent job. Just not nearly like they anticipated they would.

 

[smithfan]

I have to agree with the OP.
To suggest that this thread be locked is just silly. Its a valid reason to come to the forum. Where else are people to vent? At least here the folks behind the project have ample opportunity to express their opinions on whats happening and why.
I lost 40 bucks with this whole refund nonsense. I paid for my unit and was willing to wait, even with the delay. My only complaint was the lack of info on shipping methods to Canada.
Now im out 40 bucks and have nothing to show for it. Needless to say I wont be redoing my order.
The project had such potential but things have just gotten stupid. Chances are ill buy one in the "second batch" assuming there is one. When hopefully they get things worked out a little better.

 

[mali]

This is the reason, why I would like to keep the discussion in one place. Your 40 bucks aren't lost. The exchange rate has just changed. If you reorder via bank transfer now, you pay the same amount you have been refunded. Please go to gp32x. There are many more members to answer than here.

 

[km2783]

This is the reason, why I would like to keep the discussion in one place. Your 40 bucks aren't lost. The exchange rate has just changed. If you reorder via bank transfer now, you pay the same amount you have been refunded. Please go to gp32x. There are many more members to answer than here.

I was actually told to wait (in an email) on the bank transfer and hold out for the CC reorder link due to additional fees my bank would charge since it's an international transfer.

So I'm really, really hoping the exchange rate doesn't f me over AGAIN when they get the CC order link up. I'm already out US $60, every day until the link is up is another day the rates can change and hose me, or them even, again.

 

[mali]

There seems to be a peak in re-funding as some posts on gp32x show, so there might be faster movement, now. I don't think that the link is that far away. Chip gave an update regarding delivery date estimation too, see here:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?s= ... t&p=678177

 

[hedwards]

Now im out 40 bucks and have nothing to show for it. Needless to say I wont be redoing my order.
The project had such potential but things have just gotten stupid. Chances are ill buy one in the "second batch" assuming there is one. When hopefully they get things worked out a little better.

That's your choice, I'd be out $60 if I were to back out right now. But the thread ought to be locked because this is hardly the only place where this is being discussed. Unless I missed all the other ones being locked. Or forgot that they're on the other board.

As far as the topic goes, I'm not really sure what the OP expected, this is a small operation that's designed around user comments rather than a department full of engineers at some nameless corporation. Sure I'm personally fairly frustrated at this point, but being in early always has its risks.

(I'm still a little bit bitter about the PowerVR chips not being back for a meaningful second round in computers)

 

[warmi]

Re:

Everything so far seems a little unprofesional.

Definately.

My wife (being unfamiliar with the whole thing and thus looking at it from outside) actually even remarked that this looks like a scam to her.

I do trust these guys but it does look that way to people from outside.

 

[mali]

Just enjoy it. It's a historical moment :wink:

 

[Kisama]

You got in on the ground floor of a small startup that didn't even have a full prototype built and you want to talk about unprofessional? First, let's analyze and demolish your points, then we can lock this thread and move on.

1. Selling item for profit = Real business: they need to not use Google to send emails.
Why can't they use Google? Who are you to decide how they track their correspondence? You want them to spend more money and time to setup a dedicated mail server or hosting just for them?

2. Nothing on the main page about status & delays (have to read blogs and forums) = Fail.
This is true, because the main page is for prospective customers. Since all pre-orders are filled and there's no ETA on selling new ones, more information is not necessary. Since this is built by fans for fans (and need I remind you the project sprang from the gp32x forums in the first place), the people who waited months just to pre-order it know where to find information.

3. No details on email on when CC page will be back up or link, or even the amount to pay? = Unprofessional.
Professional what? If we're talking professional engineers who are hard at work relaying information through volunteers and supprt staff, then I say it's very profressional. They don't have that information yet, so how can they give it to you? I quote: "There is no extra charge for this upgrade - we are paying for it." So, same price, better product.

4. Direct Bank Deposit is not customer friendly, i.e. no shipping product = hard to give money back if merchant resists.
True, but it's not required. You may wait for the Credit Card page to be provided, or you may pay through bank transfer now. They've offered you a choice. Again, I quote: "If you don't want to re-order please let us know so we can allow other
people to make an order in your place." If you're not happy with your options, take your business elsewhere.

5. If bank is the cause of problems, I would have stated which bank causing it, and for customers to send their complaints too.
It is unprofessional to name the bank and point fingers. By chosing to apologize and attempt to fix it within their power, they took the high road. Why would you think that bank would care about your complaints, if you're not an account holder?

Finally, and this is icing on the cake. If you're going to start a post in an obvious attempt to flame something or someone, spellcheck your title. It's "professional" with two S's. Can we lock this thread now?

 

[Chip]

Just some further clarification:

1 - Gmail accounts were used because they were quick, easy, and free. We had no way to expect this whole refund mess, so when it happened, we had to get things together quickly to deal with it. Craig has always used gmail accounts for his shop. Nobody complained when the gmail accounts were used to send order confirmations back in October.

2 - The main page now has an update.

3 - The plan is to activate the CC reorder page as soon as all refunds have been sent. This should have only taken a week or so, but the bank has been extremely uncooperative. It's probably better that we didn't give an exact timeframe in the email, since it would have passed by now.

4 - Direct bank transfers are much more common in Europe than in the US. While they are expensive and considered "risky" here, they are the preferred method of paying for items online in many countries. In countries like Germany and the Netherlands, few people have credit cards and most use bank transfers for these transactions. American banks love their fees, so they charge quite a bit for international transfers (mine charges $35!). If you do not want to pay be bank transfer for any reason, simply wait for the CC reorder page. But try to understand that it is a very legitimate option for many people.

5 - That would be a very bad idea. As difficult as the bank is making things now, they would certainly make things more difficult if they started getting harassing phone calls. The British legal system is not like the American one. It is very difficult and expensive to sue companies. The bank knows they can get away with almost anything, as long as they process the refunds eventually. We do not want to give them an excuse to drag things out any more than they already are. Once everything has been sorted out and they no longer have any of our customers' money, you will get the full story.

 

[warmi]

Finally, and this is icing on the cake. If you're going to start a post in an obvious attempt to flame something or someone, spellcheck your title. It's "professional" with two S's. Can we lock this thread now?

What the hell are you talking about ?

The original poster was 100% correct and presented his case in professional and calm manner.
Remember, we are talking here about other people's money , hundreds of $$ in fact - are you surprised people have questions ?

 

[hedwards]

4 - Direct bank transfers are much more common in Europe than in the US. While they are expensive and considered "risky" here, they are the preferred method of paying for items online in many countries. In countries like Germany and the Netherlands, few people have credit cards and most use bank transfers for these transactions. American banks love their fees, so they charge quite a bit for international transfers (mine charges $35!). If you do not want to pay be bank transfer for any reason, simply wait for the CC reorder page. But try to understand that it is a very legitimate option for many people.

I wasn't aware of that first bit. It seemed strange for that to be the first option and for it to appear at first blush as the option they wanted people to use. Your bank's as bad as mine for transfers. But it's a credit union and over all it's quite good.

I do wish that the information had been a little less subtle in the email. But I did find the information in the message without having to go around half cocked.