torpor said:
[...]actually, it works.[...]
That's actually one of the problems with this. It's my feeling that more people are more likely to assume that Ginge "just works", and that any issues that come up are purely E02-related. notaz himself actually said that he is aware that it's entirely possible that not everything works, because he can't/hasn't thoroughly tested it himself, and developed it with only one particular piece of software in mind:
http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/55980-ginge/
notaz said:
GINGE - Ginge Is Not GP2X Emulator - is an application that runs some GP2X and Wiz software on Pandora. Yes it now includes some Wiz support, but that part is not much tested, done mainly for pcsx4all.
We've already seen in this thread that someone using Ginge on the Caanoo has commented on the frame rate running out of control whenever it got the chance, which must be due to Ginge not supporting Wiz vsync in exactly the same manner as a real Wiz, because when running on the Wiz, the game runs at no greater than 60fps
I'd also like to respond to this:
torpor said:
[...]If you don't want to have it on the platform, running for fans of the engine, thats totally understood[...]
If you notice, I said the exact opposite in response to the person who asked for a native port. It's not that I don't want it to run on the Pandora; I just don't want non-native builds being run on the Pandora to be promoted as a real solution. I would love to add the Pandora to the list of supported platforms as much as anything else, BUT, I don't own one and won't be able to obtain one in the near future, therefore, I cannot perform testing. I don't develop for platforms I can't personally test. I've tried it; it doesn't work well at all
I got nowhere trying to coordinate with someone else for testing the PSP version, and had to wait until I got my own. When I finally got my Wiz and began this port, I was quickly reminded of how little straightforwardness there actually is in actually creating a respectable working build for another new platform. It was a battle, and not something that can be won when you can't perform your own tests and have to rely on other people to take the time to perform thousands of tests for minute code changes, and to trust them to tell you absolutely EVERYTHING you need to know about what's actually going wrong at runtime. Sometimes you don't even know what you're looking for when you're performing your own tests, but you're a lot more likely to find it that way
I have also found that different platforms will frequently show symptoms of bugs in even platform-independent code that other platforms do not. I've had this happen with E02 under, at the very least, Linux, the Wii, and most recently, with the Wiz itself. It may sound like an argument in favor of a more aggressive multiplatform effort, but these are problems that I cannot see if I do not own the platform in question, and given the way bugs are actually reported to me, there is a possibility that I won't even realize that the problem is my own fault, or can only be reproduced "reliably" on that one platform. In either case, there's a high likelihood that I can't correct such a problem simply because I can't reproduce it. For the most-part, any effort expended in trying would be a total waste, and I'd have to end up giving up and waiting until some other new feature changes the program in just the right way to make the problem present itself on other platforms anyway. This is also an issue I actually have experience with
That's all aside from the fact that trying to track down a bug "in E02" that actually turns out to be an issue with Ginge (or any other emulation or compatibility environment) would be an even greater waste of time
There's a real problem in that this is bound to cause confusion. If it's actually promoted, it will get to the point where people aren't even paying attention to the fact that this is running under a "compatibility layer" rather than being a native build. More and more, the non-native Pandora build would become "representative" of the functionality and support of the actual native builds, and that's not something I want. Even if Ginge were to actually run E02 entirely without functional flaw, there are still other issues. Ginge no doubt causes overhead, leading to overall reduced performance, which you would find as games become more complex (slowdown becomes more likely, whereas the same game running under a native Pandora build of E02 would possibly run at full speed). As it is, I don't even know how Ginge responds to the fact that E02 wants to set the Wiz processor to run at 750MHz. The Pandora also has many more input buttons than the Wiz, that the Wiz version of E02 does not recognize; a native build would allow every one of them to be used. Furthermore, the Pandora also has built-in Wi-Fi, which the Wiz does not. Similarly to other platforms with Wi-Fi or other internet connectivity, a native Pandora build would include the automatic updates and in-program game downloads feature. Last, but not least, it's not likely that anyone maintaining these repackaged builds would strictly adhere to my own updates schedule, which is erratic enough already. For all the reasons stated above, I will not be maintaining such a package
I take this engine very seriously, and I want to see it finally being taken seriously by people that will actually build something with it. Although it's free for non-profit development, I do also want it to be used commercially. I have to operate in whatever manner I feel is best for my goals, and I don't want E02 or myself to be judged based on anything other than what comes directly from me
A bit long-winded, but that's the deal
