Does the P2 need a dedicated charging port

[thatgui]

The title pretty much says it, does the Pandora need one or not ?

I would say no, charging via USB is pretty much a standard nowadays and the EU even tried to make it a standard. I pretty much thought it to be an obvious choice for the P2, to not have a dedicated port, but now and then some post pop up stating that someone is happy that the P1 has a dedicated port.

Maybe something that has not been talked to death (and hooray for another useless poll)?

Also, feel free to talk about alternatives, like wireless power transfer (altough I'm not a fan of making everything wireless).

 

[Franko]

With other portable devices using the mini/micro USB as standard, it just seems redundant and a waste of valuable PCB space.  The Raspberry Pi, Beaglebones, etc don't need it.  I'm not a heavy cell phone user, but I think that a lot of cellphones use that bus as well - screw Apple.

 

[Neelix]

USB is limited in current by design...  When you are using a lot of power, (radios turned on etc)  the USB charging just doesn't cut it.

I would definitely want the next pandora to have a dedicated charging port.  Preferably with the same specs as the current pandora.

- Neelix

 

[Binky]

How much current can you get through USB3.0 ?

 

[Neelix]

I'm not sure...  but I don't own any hardware with USB3 ports,  so to me at the moment that's kind of a moot point.  USB3 is still new enough that I wouldn't want to be reliant on it for power.

- Neelix

Edit:  According to wikipedia, the specification has the maximum power output  at 900ma

 

[slaeshjag]

Especially not if it ends up using µUSB. µUSB sucks. I don't think I have a a single device with µUSB where charging works reliably after a year or so.

 

[thatgui]

USB is limited in current by design...  When you are using a lot of power, (radios turned on etc)  the USB charging just doesn't cut it.

Looking back at the standardization process the EU wanted to start I can't remember any big manufacturer complaining about that fact, nor do I remember that there were complaints that phones now take longer to charge.

My phone and a Android HDMI stick I owned for short period of time both came with power supply that supplied 2A. While I can't measure how much power the phone demands during the charge process, the Android stick is interesting in that regard. As the manufacturer supplied only a 1.5A power source in the first batch, which lead to most of the units not working stable .

So there seems to be an "eletrical" solution to draw more than 900mA through the USB Port.

Especially not if it ends up using µUSB. µUSB sucks. I don't think I have a a single device with µUSB where charging works reliably after a year or so.

I only have had this experience with a mobile USB Hardisk from WD in the past (but I guess they just used faulty connectors) otherwise I already have a long history of charging devices over USB only without a problem: two mobile phones, my Pandora, two mp3 players

 

[Franko]

Good counter-arguments made.  That means that it's a good topic for discussion.  The USB bus can deliver more than 900 milliamps obviously.   That's not a limitation from the outside (AC-powered side) anyways.  The connection can supply more amperage drain.

Edit 1:  So the initial question remains.  I get that a dedicated power supply port might charge a unit/board from 2-4 times faster.....but it still seems redundant in my use cases.

 

[_wb_]

I don't need a dedicated charging port as long as charging can be at least as fast as it is now. Take into account that we will probably have a (much) bigger battery than any phone or mp3 player, so what works for them doesn't necessarily work for us.

 

[ShleeDragon]

It's a real shame that a USB port cannot be used for both charging and data at the same time.

 

[Franko]

I know...that is a shame.  That would be a perfect solution.

in other unrelated yet sarcastic news...

We have a battery that I just took out of my unit to read.  It's an 3.7v(olt) 4000mAh Li-Polymer Battery Pack.  I used this thing all weekend...well, off and on, but I was over at my sister's place - family time - niece and nephew stuff...being the goofy uncle that I am...they were really grabby as far as this device.  We might have sold a couple of units...?

If we could reach kids........or make it survivable from kids.  Maybe teenagers that are thinking of going into Computer Science classes.  I'm going to drop by UCSD and leave some flyers for the Pandora.  Are there any officially supported ones or should I make my own and post them here?  I wouldn't want to go "rogue" here.  I think that I can do a lot though.

 

[thatgui]

I don't need a dedicated charging port as long as charging can be at least as fast as it is now. Take into account that we will probably have a (much) bigger battery than any phone or mp3 player, so what works for them doesn't necessarily work for us.

Thats true, but not the point. The point is that there seems to be a possiblity to supply at least about 2A through it, but don't know how "safe" this is, meaning if this would go through all electrical certification processes (CE marking, FCC compliance, etc). As far as is know the power supply that is shipped with the Pandora doesn't supply more than 2A, so it should not take longer (in theory).

It's a real shame that a USB port cannot be used for both charging and data at the same time.

I charge my Pandora only via usb, while mounting one of its SD-Cards as mass storage device. Or do you have a dedicated charging circuit in mind that would switch off if a "computer" is detected ?

 I'm going to drop by UCSD and leave some flyers for the Pandora.  Are there any officially supported ones or should I make my own and post them here?  I wouldn't want to go "rogue" here.  I think that I can do a lot though.

there is: http://boards.openpandora.org/index.php/topic/11740-flyer-for-fosdem/?hl=flyers#entry218404

 

[bismuthdrummer]

Does the P2 need a dedicated charge port? (EDITED) Obviously it doesn't with present day technologies, so I think the goal of this poll needs clarification.

It's back to striking the balances. I have no idea if it makes electrical sense in the present day. It might not, but my sense is that there will be some sort of hangup with the implementation.

Ex: The Open Pandora has full-size USB!*

*Actually it's 2.0 high speed and not backwards-compatible.

Maybe I'm way off but I'm envisioning something like:

Ex: The Open Pandora 2 can charge at up to 2A through its USB 3.0 OTG port!**

**Actually it depends upon the output of the charger or host device which in practice rarely or never outputs more than the standardized maximum of 900mA.

Will it REALLY be as fast as a proper mains? If not, will the battery be smaller or do we just accept the longer charge time?

I think the current charge time of 3-4 hours is awesome.

 

[_wb_]

Something like slow charging with a standard USB cable (to charge from a laptop or pc or standard charger) and fast charging with a custom charger would be OK. With a dedicated charging port you also need a dedicated charger, so I don't mind that - but having one less hole in the case to collect dirt, and maybe saving some PCB space, is still nice.

The most important thing to me is that there is a way to charge fast (e.g. 1-2 hours of charging to get 50% charge), and a way to "emergency" charge anywhere using standard cables you can find anywhere. If both can be done through USB, that would be great.

 

[Franko]

Thanks "thatgui"  I downloaded the artwork - I own a print shop so this is easy.    

Also, good analogies there, bismuthdrummer.  I've generally enjoyed your perspective on things - you've seemed like a rational and intelligent person in all of the posts that I've read...  I think that you used to "wear" that Baldurs Gate 2 avatar with the cigar out the mouth - I liked that one - it made you seem distinguished and yet brash and thoughtful.  Seemed to suit your personality.  Don't lose heart, and don't lose your car keys.  That's just sound advice no matter who gives it.
 

 

[Franko]

I'm just going to reiterate my choice.

NO.

Not necessary - low-powered boards don't require the redundancy (IMO).  The mini-usb port CAN draw the required amperage.

 

[ShleeDragon]

If you've got a problem with power.... grab one of these

 

[Franko]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Electric_transformer_grid.jpg

 

[GoldenSun3DS]

A dedicated charging port is not really necessary. Just include a USB-to-wall-outlet adapter with all P2s instead of a power cord.

 

[FaeMinx]

^ or for those of us that already 3 or 4 of the things, make it an optional accessory.