Do I Need Linux Knowledge?

[shillbert]

I'm a complete Linux noob, closest I have come is trying Ubuntu running from CD, however I'm now seeing quite a bit of stuff relating to using the shell, formatting SD cards, 3G dongles etc.

I'm not afraid of a DOS style environment but I was hoping for a more plug and play OS and would prefer to be able to use a nice GUI to get stuff done while on the move.

Am I going to be disappointed?

 

[mali]

A brain and a forum account is usually enough to get things done when you have a problem. If you expect Windows/iPhone like ease of use you will be disappointed.

 

[sebt3]

A brain and a forum account is usually enough to get things done when you have a problem.

Agree. And there are pandorians that are also linux noob.

If you expect Windows/iPhone like ease of use you will be disappointed.

I'm not sure I'll choose installshield over the PND system...

 

[dflemstr]

I'm a complete Linux noob, closest I have come is trying Ubuntu running from CD, however I'm now seeing quite a bit of stuff relating to using the shell, formatting SD cards, 3G dongles etc.

I'm not afraid of a DOS style environment but I was hoping for a more plug and play OS and would prefer to be able to use a nice GUI to get stuff done while on the move.

Am I going to be disappointed?

Well the thing most Linux newcomers don't realize is that Linux is a very GUI-enabled OS. You can do everything you want to do using the GUI most of the time, and the Pandora is no exception. And the kind of things you can't do with a Linux GUI are the kinds of things you can't do with a Windows GUI (Does this make sense?); they are on about the same level of abstraction.

So why do users get the impression that Linux is so command-line centered? The reason is simple: Linux users are lazy. Doing things with the terminal is soo much easier than doing it with the GUI, even if you only know a couple of basic commands.

Example:
Task: Remove the GTK settings file to reset your theme because you screwed up.
Command line: Type "rm ~/.gtkrc"
GUI: Open a file manager, navigate to your home directory, open the folder view settings dialog, enable "Show hidden files", go back to the home directory, scroll down until you see ".gtkrc", select it, press [Shift]+[Del] to remove it, go back to the folder view settings dialog, and hide hidden files again.

So what do you think that guide-authors will prefer doing? Will they simply say "do a rm ~/.gtkrc" or will they walk you through the GUI process? What would you do?

 

[shillbert]

Thats fine, as I say I'm not afraid of a command prompt but initially while finding my way round I'd rather use a GUI.

 

[tsh]

Well, at the moment, there are lots of small things which need to be tweaked. That should improve over time (so a lot of it has been improved by the 3 hotfixes) and more things will just work automatically. For people who understand the shell, it is easy to do things directly. If I want to make you an easy way of leaving low-power state by opening the lid, I can - but it requires me to learn how to create a pnd with the right script.

It comes down to how close to the cutting edge do you want to be, and how much you want to customise. The intention (long term) is for everything to be possible through the GUI, but in order for that to happen, people need to write code for stuff which they can do by hand.

For normal use, you ought to be OK without the shell - if there is something you want to tweak, you'll probably be copying something from here or the wiki. If there are things which you need to work through the gui, ask (either here, or on the bug tracker with an enhancement request) and if you're lucky someone will help you out. (Thats the way this stuff happens, devs pick something that is relevant or interesting to them)

 

[WizardStan]

Am I going to be disappointed?

Not likely. Most of what people who hit the command line need it for are exceptional stuff: they want to do something that's not (yet) part of the default feature list, like connecting to their phone for internet access, or formatting a card (which you don't have to do); they have a problem and command line is the best way to get errors out of a running program; or it is simply easier to use the command line as was already mentioned.
Assuming you only want to use the Pandora as a game/mobile PC kinda thing without trying to make things work that aren't strictly designed to work with it, you will never need to touch the command line. But if you're feeling experimental and want to do more, the command line is there.
The command line is incredibly powerful, but it doesn't need to be used if you don't want to. Think of a car: you can go to the store, for long trips, all the usual "car" stuff without ever looking under the hood, but if you want to get more power out of your engine, no one is going to stop you. That's the one thing that puts the Pandora over the DS or PSP or iPhone: they all have their purposes, but if you want to step outside of the approved purposes, the only one that actively encourages it is the Pandora.

 

[Sphinxter]

Signs point to, "Yes".

 

[thingley]

You'd be amazed at how often the linux command prompt makes things a lot easier.

Trying to give people help to solve windows problems can be really overcomplicated sometimes - a bit like trying to give someone street directions.

Very often when you have a linux related problem someone on the forum will be able to give you something that you can just copy and paste in to a terminal prompt that will fix it. (as long as it doesn't have 'sudo rm' anywhere in it you should be fine!)

It's a lot easier than ... go to control panel... go to this icon ... click on this .. then on this menu you should have the option to...

 

[Gerix]

How about "Back up your Windows registry before attempting step 13"?

And would I be off saying this might be a good place to learn Linux? After all, the hardware is standardized and everything should be explicitly supported. Stuff like downloading and installing proprietary graphics drivers shouldn't come into play. Plus, you can change the colors on your terminal.

Anyway, as far as being on the move, I find most of the things I do in Linux do not require the command prompt, at least not intensively. Most of the things I use the command prompt for also have GUI alternatives. When I first started using Linux, everything I needed was accessible through the GUI. I can't speak for the Pandora as mine has not shipped, but I can't see it being too different. Otherwise, someone would be working on making the initial experience more pleasant.

 

[mali]

To explain my post from above a bit more, I'm talking about reality, not theory. Even if most things have a GUI to get things done, the thing is still buggy as hell and will stay that way for a while. As soon as you encounter a bug you reinstall Windows often have to resort to the command line. That's what I see in the "I need help section" right now and so it's the reality and not a hypothetical ideal device. It will get sorted out in the future eventually, but when someone asks right now I have to tell the truth and say: "Yes, it does have a GUI for that, but it only works half the time." Exaggeratedly speaking

 

[ahahah]

i'm also a totally noob linux and i have the same worry as you.

some people say that command lines are more easy to use than the mouse.
i'm ok but the problem is to know which command makes what action and with which syntax use it.

anyway the pandora is the occasion to confront to the linux world, i'm ready to try.

 

[mali]

^ Like I said above, a brain and a forum account is enough. People are solving problems and giving advice to n00bs non-stop and nobody shouted RTFM so far.

 

[WizardStan]

some people say that command lines are more easy to use than the mouse.
i'm ok but the problem is to know which command makes what action and with which syntax use it.

So long as you trust the people telling you what to do here (and for the most part I like to hope that is true) you won't actually need to know anything. Just say "I have problem XYZ, HELP?!" and do and type exactly what the response says.
That being said, sooner or later someone is going to say "no problem, just type 'sudo rm /'" and the unsuspecting victim will erase their firmware. A good head and some inspection of what you're being told to type doesn't hurt, and will help you learn more so that the next time you have a similar problem you can solve it yourself. But if you never understand a single command, the worst that'll happen is you have to reinstall your firmware because some dingus made a bad joke.

 

[Pleng]

^ Like I said above, a brain and a forum account is enough. People are solving problems and giving advice to n00bs non-stop and nobody shouted RTFM so far.

No, there's a few STFF's being shouted though

 

[mali]

^ Hehe, in the General section this actually happens sometimes The help section is safe, though

 

[shillbert]

Relating to "sudo rm /"

Man that brings back a memory:

Years ago (showing my age) myself and a friend sat typing in a listing from a magazine for the ZX Spectrum, when we ran it the program failed to run properly, my "friend" said "I know what it is type [A] then [ENTER]", as my friend was reading out the listing and I was typing it in I did this.

Anyone with a knowledge of the Speccy's multi function keys may remember that [A] [ENTER] performed a NEW command, thus clearing out about 6 hours typing.

 

[Bosbeetle]

A mild intrest in linux works for me It also took me back to msx days haha the typing listings brings back memories Used to do it all the time, find basic programs from magazines and then changing them (hardly ever made them nicer but its was a fun thing to do)

 

[SomeGuy99]

You don't have to learn shell commands, but you'll miss out on all the fun. It's the only way to unleash the power and versatility of the Pandora at this early stage.

I write guides for people assuming my readers have no Linux knowledge. It's not hard for me to do, because I'm not massively ahead of the curve myself. I'm only a very low level wizard.

If anyone has anything they are stuck on, just ask. I'll figure out how to do it, then post a guide. I'm waiting on getting my replacement Pandora right now, but it shouldn't be more than a week.

 

[shillbert]

My hope is that a PodCast will pop up for the Pandora.