Depressing

[EvilDragon]

No, it's not from Exophase.

 

[b._.o._.b]

Could have been worse... suppose Pandora was flawless no quality issues and 900 highly motivated devs were pumping out great stuff for the last two years then not having one would really suck.. and btw

 

[Exophase]

yeah Exo, wheres Temper Just needed a UI didn't it? C'mon, you perfectionist

jeff

The UI changes were actually done more or less, or at least that netplay stuff >_>

I actually worked myself into a corner by rewriting the entire renderer, because I ended up having to do the ARM ASM versions (only rewrote the C part) and realized that doing it for Cortex-A8 is a lot harder for ARM9. Especially if your goal is to do something which is good on both.. and inevitably I have to do two versions of the inner loops now :/ I haven't even finished the first function yet and then real life hit my like a sack of bricks again, it's kind of dreadful. Hopefully once I get past that hurdle the other functions will get done easily and I can ship the damn thing. And resume working on things I actually want to work on.

 

[Azure]

[rant]

What's depressing is the complete lack of professionalism that this project has exhibited over the years (and from people that have built up such reputations in these scene...mainly looking at Craig in this regard, who seems to have convinced himself that he's been absolutely perfect throughout this whole process and refuses to ever apologize). Can someone explain to me how it is possible to have all the oversights in construction people have had on their units (especially from a company that kept saying they wanted to do things "right" unlike other companies, for a device that was touted as being made by people who would actually use such a device (a jab at GPH, I think?), so you can expect that level of care/attention to detail...)? How is it possible for people to have to replace their units multiple times? What inept clown(s) (maybe inept is a strong word...perhaps someone with low standards?) is checking these faulty units and is responsible for choosing units which units to choose to replace them (or is the mindset there: "We don't have any "good" Pandoras to give them since we are still waiting on factories...well, just ship them a unit we *do* have as it'll kill some time until we get something of quality from the factories")? It'd be one thing if shipping costs were covered and everything, but a lot of these people have to ship packages internationally to you guys and there's a turn-around time of weeks, so it's frustrating to get faulty units as "replacements"...

So what exactly are you expecting us to do right now?

Yes, the delays are depressing, but there is nothing we can do right now but to prepare everything and wait for the companies to finish.

In all honesty, to me it does seem hard to believe that all that you can do right now is make more and more Pandora videos every day (which seems overly excessive...it's been over 2 years, and we're still relying on videos to tide us over?). Aside from my broken nubs, the biggest problem I have is a missing TV-Out cable. Is there absolutely *nothing* you can do in that regard (negotiations to bring down the numbers?)? How did you guys dig yourself into this hole with this factory (the hole being ending up in the situation where the TV-Out cables have been ready to be produced for some time but you can't afford their minimum production amount...)? You guys always blame the factories, but was it really impossible to put your "business caps" on when dealing with these factories to get information about minimum order quantities beforehand (or in contract form or something...)? It's just frustrating to know that you're spending so many hours making more and more mindless videos every day, while I still wait for the TV-Out cable I ordered years ago (let alone a working Pandora...).

It's just depressing having this POS Pandora paper-weight here that I waited years for, not able to do the things that made me wait years for it (primarily due to broken nubs, shitty shoulder buttons, *unstable/slow* web browsers, and no TV-Out cable). I'd comment on the state of software, but I'd chalk that up to a lack of units produced.

[/rant]

 

[SNESFAN]

there was a discussion quite some time ago about who should have gotten the first pandoras devs vs end users.

that was a silly idea wasn't it? I'm glad we went with order number rather than ability to contribute software.

While being quite fair... I think the entire platform is suffering because of that decision.

I would have... and still would gladly step aside, even after all this time waiting.... if it meant a solid piece of software were to go into production just that much sooner.

 

[Jumpman]

Well, the reality is even if more developers had gotten units, software would still be low, as it takes many more to test and report problems in the software. The key guys who did the OS and other things still hadn't perfected anything once the unit shipped, and have had many updates due to community reported bugs and problems.

So, it will get better once more units arrive, but I don't really think it would have made much of a differance for more devs to have received units before hand. Just my thoughts of course!

Chris

 

[Unfathomable Depths]

In my opinion, it's a better than decent handheld computer.

I wanted PS1 and Amiga emulation (specific games for me - the 'Wipeout' series and Sensi Soccer). Got that.
I wanted to be able cross-compile SDL (I dreamt of IrrLicht, but it's soo slow in my hands). Got that.
I wanted a decent browser. Got that in Chromium.

After that I got to learn JavaScript and the <canvas> tag. Bonus

It's not perfect but I don't feel cheated in any way. I got what I pre-ordered.

I've got a broken left nub and my dilemma is send it back and not have it for some unknown amount of time or persevere until they are shipping decent quantities.

I think that says it all.

 

[SNESFAN]

Well, the reality is even if more developers had gotten units, software would still be low, as it takes many more to test and report problems in the software. The key guys who did the OS and other things still hadn't perfected anything once the unit shipped, and have had many updates due to community reported bugs and problems.

I don't see anywhere near 1000 people posting bugs and problems

but if you say it was better the way it happened then *thumbs up*

 

[EvilDragon]

the biggest problem I have is a missing TV-Out cable. Is there absolutely *nothing* you can do in that regard (negotiations to bring down the numbers?)?

I mentioned this at the official site last week, we've been working on this already.
We got some decent prices and production is being set up.
It takes a while, but usually, those things happen in about 6 weeks (setting up machinery, etc.), so it should be ready late January.

So yes, we've also worked on that.

 

[may88]

the biggest problem I have is a missing TV-Out cable. Is there absolutely *nothing* you can do in that regard (negotiations to bring down the numbers?)?

I mentioned this at the official site last week, we've been working on this already.
We got some decent prices and production is being set up.
It takes a while, but usually, those things happen in about 6 weeks (setting up machinery, etc.), so it should be ready late January.

So yes, we've also worked on that.

you hero. :wub:

 

[XxionxX]

Sigh...

 

[Gerix]

...optimism...

There's nothing to say really. I get the frustrations. I'm pretty frustrated myself. I'm trying to stay optimistic, because constant complaining is going to give ED an ulcer and isn't really doing anything for me. I'm pretty sure Craig doesn't read my posts (but that might be a good thing).

P.S. ED needs a fireman's helmet. He puts out so many fires around here.

Edit: Oh, and don't say skeezix and pickle are the only big developers for the Pandora. That would make Exophase angry. And you wouldn't like him when he's angry...

 

[Xenu]

When I ordered early January this year I never thought I had to wait this long. But I really don't mind waiting. This is a unique project, and it feels more then just a gadget. It has more of a soul then any ds or psp will ever have. It's rough around the edges, but I think I'm going to like it like that. I'm proud of being a small part of this amazing project. And although it feels like the op-team sometimes just stumbles around I know I would never have the balls to even try pulling this of. I think this is just a beginning, first the pandora then icontrolpad and later down the line, hopefully pandora 2.

 

[EvilDragon]

What's depressing is the complete lack of professionalism that this project has exhibited over the years (and from people that have built up such reputations in these scene...mainly looking at Craig in this regard, who seems to have convinced himself that he's been absolutely perfect throughout this whole process and refuses to ever apologize). Can someone explain to me how it is possible to have all the oversights in construction people have had on their units (especially from a company that kept saying they wanted to do things "right" unlike other companies, for a device that was touted as being made by people who would actually use such a device (a jab at GPH, I think?), so you can expect that level of care/attention to detail...)? How is it possible for people to have to replace their units multiple times? What inept clown(s) (maybe inept is a strong word...perhaps someone with low standards?) is checking these faulty units and is responsible for choosing units which units to choose to replace them (or is the mindset there: "We don't have any "good" Pandoras to give them since we are still waiting on factories...well, just ship them a unit we *do* have as it'll kill some time until we get something of quality from the factories")? It'd be one thing if shipping costs were covered and everything, but a lot of these people have to ship packages internationally to you guys and there's a turn-around time of weeks, so it's frustrating to get faulty units as "replacements"...

This is something where I didn't agree with Craig (yes, there are also things we have different views on, but I guess that's normal ). I didn't want to repeat the mistakes GPH made, and those were things like the stick, the battery life, the sourcecode not released, not listening to the community, etc.
I didn't think the quality of the GP2X was that bad.

What I can understand is that some guys had multiple units. The first units had failing LCD cables and after being exchanged, as they still had the old nubs, those also failed.
We have been working on both issues. So that would probably be a reason, and for that reason we stopped production until we had final, fixed and working nubs.

I've seen VERY few LCD cables fail since they have been built into the unit more carefully, though some seem to be of a bad quality. I had some which failed from the very beginning.
That's why we asked MSI for help (Fatih knows someone there). They told us a company specialized on Flex cables and we sent them a documentation about our problem, made pictures of where the cable is being stressed, etc.
They now produced a prototype and made a lot of tests to check that it really is durable and will send us a sample. So yes, this is another issue that has been fixed.

The shoulder buttons were another issue but couldn't really be made better for the first 1000 units since we got those cases. With the next units, they are fine.

What I surely can't understand is that some units are not properly built (missing screws, etc.).
My guess is that one of the guys Craig hired made a bad job there. Who knows if he's still doing the job... Craig didn't check each single Pandora before shipping, that was supposed to have already happened.

None such unit ever left my shop, I checked them all manually. But I had a lot less units to ship than Craig.
And I never had to replace a unit two times yet. I changed some LCD cables, yes. But for the nubs, I told the people to wait until the new ones are there.

Now that the new nubs are in production and finally working, the last hurdle is the board company. And hopefully, they will spit out a lot of boards with nubs soon!

 

[Blue Protoman]

You, sir, know exactly how to make us hype the Pandora, and for that I commend you.

 

[authoreyes]

Agreed...ED is everything right about the pandora project.

 

[Exophase]

Same, ED is a good guy and a real credit to the project. Whole thing must be insanely stressful for him.

 

[clyborg]

It also seems like all the devs are gone or lost interest in wasting there time on a device with less than 500 userbase (minus the defective units). I don't blame them. It also worries me because I ordered this device because of who was developing for it, only Skeezix is left. I did not know Pickle when I ordered, but he has earned 200% respect...I just hope to used some of his apps.

So to say Skeezix might be the only dev doing something is bogus.

Maybe you do not understand what I posted, so I'll re-phrase it so I do not hurt any other dev's feelings. I ordered this device because of WHO was developing or for it (prior to 2009), only Skeezix is left out of that group of developers that I used or knew of there work prior to me ordering. I only mentioned you(pickle) because you not only posted so many ports but you posted working videos. There might be other devs working on the pandora, but they are working on stuff I might not even use.

This is the post that made me order the pandora: http://www.gp32x.de/board/index.php?/topic/45203-amiga-emu/page__st__45__p__671657__fromsearch__1&#entry671657

It's a shame that GnoStiC left.


Anyway, I do not need to explain anymore. Next time, ask instead of jumping to conclusions.

Jason

 

[gp32rich]

Did someone say two months?

the biggest problem I have is a missing TV-Out cable. Is there absolutely *nothing* you can do in that regard (negotiations to bring down the numbers?)?

I mentioned this at the official site last week, we've been working on this already.
We got some decent prices and production is being set up.
It takes a while, but usually, those things happen in about 6 weeks (setting up machinery, etc.), so it should be ready late January.

So yes, we've also worked on that.

 

[EvilDragon]

Same, ED is a good guy and a real credit to the project. Whole thing must be insanely stressful for him.

It sure is, probably a lot more than most of you think.
When this all started, my company wasn't setup... so if all decide to cancel because that *** company just doesn't produce boards and is lying to us, I'm personally being held responsible which means I have about 150.000 EUR I need to pay as a private person... money I don't have.
So yes... I'm not only annoyed by any delay... it totally drags me down. I'm just a human being after all and while I have a lot of strength to fight, there are times where it is too much for me.

If I had 300 EUR like you in the project for years, I'd be annoyed... but try to imagine my situation...

Anywhere I go, people see the Pandora and immediately want one... and here we are, having paid all parts and just waiting for a company to do their job... that one single company is the one that decides whether I will run into serious personal problems or not.

All I wanted to do is help bring one of the coolest OpenSource gaming handhelds out there, and I've dedicated countless hours of time into doing that... I just don't want to see it all go down just because of one single company...

Of course we are working on solutions, working with a new company that could hopefully start a reliable production early next year. But time is our worst enemy.

So yes, all I can hope for is the understanding of the preorderers and their patience.
I guess no one here would want to see me run into serious personal issues, but exactly this would happen if too many start asking for refunds. Production issues CAN be solved - but it takes a lot of time.

Yes, this scares me a lot. There are days where I am highly depressed at the moment, something I never encountered before... as I'm known to always be happy and optimistic. But this pressure currently is too much for me.
I'll keep fighting, and as long as the communty sticks with us, we'll find a solution. But if the community stops doing that, it'll be my end somehow...

So yes, I can understand if anyone of you is sad, annoyed or depressed with each delay there is.
I can understand you as each delay does the same to me, just a lot stronger.