Creating A Guide?

[vadsamoht]

After a highly-frustrating encounter with the search function while trying to find a specific thread, I had the idea of starting this; (LINK). EDIT: Replaced with a direct link.

Basically what I want to know is whether people think that it is worthwhile pursuing, if it is made redundant by the presence of a wiki and this thread, the main post of which has not been updated since October `08.

-- Naturally this is just a basic outline to give people an idea of what it will eventually be like; all of the links and sections would be fleshed out in more detail. It would also not be intended as a replacement for the wiki of having cummonity support, but rather a supplement to it to cover the more basic problems most people will likely encounter at some point.

Thoughts?

 

[SomeGuy99]

Thoughts:

Calling it a 'Noob Guide' might seem slightly derogatory to some people - also, in an ironic twist, it isn't very noob friendly because many people don't know the meaning of 'noob'.

Your language seems a little unfriendly, ie. 'You break it, it's your fault'. Remember that in text, unintended meanings can be inferred if negative language is used.

This is my personal opinion, but I think guides should be written by people with a Pandora. I say this simply becase the author has no way of confirming whatever is they are telling people to do. I hazard a guess that you will be relying on third party information.

You recommend people use Adobe Acrobat in Windows, but that program is completely awful! I recommend Sumatra PDF personally.

You mention Ed, but don't say who he is.

You mention the emulators are 'console only' but list UAE4ALL, which is a 'computer emulator'.

 

[vadsamoht]

Thoughts:

Calling it a 'Noob Guide' might seem slightly derogatory to some people - also, in an ironic twist, it isn't very noob friendly because many people don't know the meaning of 'noob'.

Your language seems a little unfriendly, ie. 'You break it, it's your fault'. Remember that in text, unintended meanings can be inferred if negative language is used.

This is my personal opinion, but I think guides should be written by people with a Pandora. I say this simply becase the author has no way of confirming whatever is they are telling people to do. I hazard a guess that you will be relying on third party information.

The language was always intended to be changed - this was just a mock-up to convey an idea.

as for being having a pandora, mine shouldn't be too far off (800-900)

 

[skeezix]

To wit, it requires a google a count, and being logged into it, so i didnt look im afraid

Jeffphone

 

[vadsamoht]

To wit, it requires a google a count, and being logged into it, so i didnt look im afraid

Jeffphone

It shouldn't require an account, despite being hosted by Google.

 

[SomeGuy99]

The language was always intended to be changed - this was just a mock-up to convey an idea.

as for being having a pandora, mine shouldn't be too far off (350-400)

The other main problem with documentation is keeping it up to date.

For example, I spend the last week researching how to put Linux onto a cheap PocketPC I picked up. The various guides and FAQs were wildly different in how current the information was, and trying to mentally sort which were relevant prooved to be a fair amount of work.

Now, I obviously appreciate the work each of those authors put into their guides... but leaving antiquainted material out there on the internet only poisons the flow of accurate information. I'm sure those guys who wrote said material did so in complete earnest and with the best of intentions, but in the end... they only served to confuse and misinform people like myself, albeit some time in the future.

It's tricky really, because if nobody bothers to document anything... there isn't any documentation!

I'm just asking myself if we need even more fragmented sources of help?

 

[mali]

I like the idea
On the other hand I prefer to guide n00bs personally rather than telling them to read a "n00b guide", so the title should definitely be changed. I also think that the combination of Wiki(especially the user manual), Tweaks Thread and personal support in the "I need help" section is very successful so far.

 

[vadsamoht]

The language was always intended to be changed - this was just a mock-up to convey an idea.

as for being having a pandora, mine shouldn't be too far off (350-400)

The other main problem with documentation is keeping it up to date.

For example, I spend the last week researching how to put Linux onto a cheap PocketPC I picked up. The various guides and FAQs were wildly different in how current the information was, and trying to mentally sort which were relevant prooved to be a fair amount of work.

Now, I obviously appreciate the work each of those authors put into their guides... but leaving out of date material out there on the internet only poisons the flow of accurate information. I'm sure that those guys who wrote the material did so in complete earnest and with the best of intentions, but in the end they only served to confuse and misinform people like myself some time in the future.

It's tricky really, because if nobody bothers to document anything... there isn't any documentation!

I'm just asking myself if we need even more fragmented sources of help?

Agreed, fragmentation concerns were the main reason for statrting this thread. Keeping the document up-to-date may possibly be an issue, as is the case for the wiki and anywhere else. It does have the specific advantages over the wiki of being in one package and not requiring an internet connection, and avoids unnecessary duplication or thread revival here.

I like the idea
On the other hand I prefer to guide n00bs personally rather than telling them to read a "n00b guide", so the title should definitely be changed. I also think that the combination of Wiki(especially the user manual), Tweaks Thread and personal support in the "I need help" section is very successful so far.

But so far there are only a small number of Pandoras out in the wild. More units means more strain on the forums, and the guide would only be used for decidedly general things.

 

[SomeGuy99]

But so far there are only a small number of Pandoras out in the wild. More units means more strain on the forums, and the guide would only be used for decidedly general things.

But the forum is run by Ed! This place pretty much is the Pandora community - their fates are intertwined.

Agreed, fragmentation concerns were the main reason for statrting this thread. Keeping the document up-to-date may possibly be an issue, as is the case for the wiki and anywhere else. It does have the specific advantages over the wiki of being in one package and not requiring an internet connection, and avoids unnecessary duplication or thread revival here.

Yeah, but the Wiki hasn't been maintained. No individual person is to blame for this, but I guess we're all to blame... as a collective?

So if the Wiki has been neglected, why will this not be?

 

[mali]

But so far there are only a small number of Pandoras out in the wild. More units means more strain on the forums, and the guide would only be used for decidedly general things.

We already had some discussion about a "Community Team" doing the support. Wouldn't it be cool to be a _real_ community instead of shouting RTFM all the time like others do?

 

[SomeGuy99]

But so far there are only a small number of Pandoras out in the wild. More units means more strain on the forums, and the guide would only be used for decidedly general things.

We already had some discussion about a "Community Team" doing the support. Wouldn't it be cool to be a _real_ community instead of shouting RTFM all the time like others do?

I agree with this completely, but I also see a market for a static 'FAQ' type document. The problem is that the 'target' is shifting quite quickly, and anybody who maintains it will need to be rewriting stuff every week at a minimum.

 

[vadsamoht]

But so far there are only a small number of Pandoras out in the wild. More units means more strain on the forums, and the guide would only be used for decidedly general things.

But the forum is run by Ed! This place pretty much is the Pandora community - their fates are intertwined.

Agreed, but the aim is not to say `dont use the forums', but to stop duplication and aid with accessibility.

Agreed, fragmentation concerns were the main reason for statrting this thread. Keeping the document up-to-date may possibly be an issue, as is the case for the wiki and anywhere else. It does have the specific advantages over the wiki of being in one package and not requiring an internet connection, and avoids unnecessary duplication or thread revival here.

Yeah, but the Wiki hasn't been maintained. No individual person is to blame for this, but I guess we're all to blame... as a collective?

So if the Wiki has been neglected, why will this not be?

TBH, no reason at all, other than the fact that the source for the document, if it goes ahead, will probably be made open with the wiki, so they will likely be _as_ relevant as each other, if not up-to-date.

But so far there are only a small number of Pandoras out in the wild. More units means more strain on the forums, and the guide would only be used for decidedly general things.

We already had some discussion about a "Community Team" doing the support. Wouldn't it be cool to be a _real_ community instead of shouting RTFM all the time like others do?

I agree with this completely, but I also see a market for a static 'FAQ' type document. The problem is that the 'target' is shifting quite quickly, and anybody who maintains it will need to be rewriting stuff every week at a minimum.

True, but hopefully once the majority of the units from the first batch are out and the major kinks in the firmware have been ironed out, then things might hopefully slow down (a bit). This certainly won't be any less problematic than the wiki, but should be far more accessable to the new-user than the forums.

 

[SomeGuy99]

Sorry, this is slightly off topic, but:

In a few years after the Pandora scene has matured, I'd love to write a Pandora related book. I'm thinking something like a compendium, including tutorials and other cool material.

- Tutorials for commonly requested Pandora tweaks, mods, hardware and software setup
- Interviews with all the devs (like Hooka did for the GP32)
- Interviews with the Pandora team, and a chronicle of the Pandora development
- Catalogue of all the homebrew, emulators and software

All with lots of lovely screenshots and photos... even you Michael!

There would be a free PDF probably... not like many would buy the book anyway.

 

[u9i]

I couldn't read the document because i don't have a google account. From what i gather it will be a beginners guide to the Pandora. If you have energy for it, i would strongly recommend using the wiki (wherever it is, i don't actually know the link) instead of making another document. I also think that thread you linked to should have been put on the wiki, but for some reason people think forums are the solution for everything. It's a shame really, as no one else can update that thread, while the whole purpose of a wiki is that anyone can update.

As for the _real_ community, hell yeah! People should always be friendly toward newcomers, and if they cannot, then just keep shut. How difficult can it be?

/Uni

 

[vadsamoht]

I couldn't read the document because i don't have a google account. From what i gather it will be a beginners guide to the Pandora. If you have energy for it, i would strongly recommend using the wiki (wherever it is, i don't actually know the link) instead of making another document. I also think that thread you linked to should have been put on the wiki, but for some reason people think forums are the solution for everything. It's a shame really, as no one else can update that thread, while the whole purpose of a wiki is that anyone can update.

As for the _real_ community, hell yeah! People should always be friendly toward newcomers, and if they cannot, then just keep shut. How difficult can it be?

/Uni

Ok, I'm going to find somewhere else to host the file, and change the link at the top. Your quote about not knowing where the wiki is, is actually part of the problem that this tries to solve. http://pandorawiki.org/Main_Page <- Here, BTW.

OK, Link updated in first post, and also here.

 

[vadsamoht]

So any more input? I've done a bit more work to give a fuller picture of what the end result would be, and updates the links in both the initial post and the one above this.

 

[tsh]

The wiki is being actively maintained, just look at the changelog. ED only got admin rights for the main page today, so that will be tidied soon.

 

[Cheese]

Hmm, something like this could be useful in the future, but right now more fragmentation of the sources of information/documentation is probably the last thing we need. I've found over the past few weeks of using my Pandora that the problem isn't so much that the information isn't out there but rather, it's difficult to find because it's spread out all over the place.

 

[vadsamoht]

Hmm, something like this could be useful in the future, but right now more fragmentation of the sources of information/documentation is probably the last thing we need. I've found over the past few weeks of using my Pandora that the problem isn't so much that the information isn't out there but rather, it's difficult to find because it's spread out all over the place.

Yeah, I'm starting to think that while this might be useful, now just isn't the time. I'll probably work on it for another few months and then post back, when most people have their units, and I'll be able to better judge whether the community feels like it will help.

The main reason why I don't work on the Wiki instead (regardless of its relative benefits) is that as an experienced LaTeX user, I have become very used to that `style' of formatting, and the few encounters I've had with wiki code has completely fried my brains.

 

[tsh]

If you want to add stuff that is not well formatted to the wiki, feel free - someone will be along to make it look nicer (particularly if you note that you expect improvements)