λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
We've got "the Spanish Flu" for a long time but "the Chinese Flu" is considered racist?
Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Please stay safe, y'all
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Djoga'Ro
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Only if calling native Americans Indians is racist. Coronavira are no flu.
Phlyra
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Genesis and pathogenesis of the 1918 pandemic H1N1 influenza A virus - PMC
The origin of the 1918 pandemic influenza A virus (IAV) and the reasons for its unusual severity are two of the foremost biomedical mysteries of the past century. We infer that the virus arose via reassortment between a preexisting human H1 IAV ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
levi
Still fresh, damnit!
Calling the 1918 outbreak 'spanish flu' is seen as being a little xenophobic these days too, as I've pointed out here before now. As I also pointed out, this is a coronavirus, and not an influenza, so at the very least calling it 'chinese flu' is factually incorrect.
TeDaDeS
Forum Addict!
Well when you put it that way it sounds impossible but possibly due to missing context.
Let's look-up the definition of racist: "a person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another."
Let's also look-up the definition of race: "a population within a species that is distinct in some way, especially a subspecies."
So it looks like the use of the word in context is important, not so much the word itself. It needs to used to show prejudice or discrimination against a certain population of people that is distinct.
Why did they coin the term 'Spanish-flu'? Because the vast majority of people perceived it as Spain was hit hardest.
Why did they coin the term 'Chinese-flu'? It has the appearance that some people want to blame Chinese people for getting sick and tanking their economy.
So there isn't anything wrong with the word 'Chinese-flu', except as already mentioned it isn't a flu and it's ambiguous about which one you mean, the perceived use when more clearer terms were introduced earlier imply it's because of prejudice against Asian people.
That's why I think people use the term Covid-19.
In addition:
Clearly there is a large group of trigger-word-police. So using the term Chinese-flu doesn't make you a racist, it can be perceived as racist.
And the group that perceives things as a trigger is growing. I'm not in favor of censorship due to this. I'm just answering the question.
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Phlyra
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Because as we all know, Asians - and especially Chinese - are mass-murdering Marxist invaders! ( /s in case the sarcasm wasn’t clear)
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Over 35,000 Malnourished, Caged Children Rescued out of US Tunnels by Military -- Judy Byington
Over 35,000 Malnourished, Caged Children Rescued Out of US Tunnels by Military Judy Byington, MSW, LCSW, Therapist, ret, Author “Twenty ...
operationdisclosure1.blogspot.com
On the one hand, new rules do allow for doom scenarios such as exposed in the next videoclip:
And the same (laws) is happening in NL:
www.nu.nl
... but will it really come to that?
unable to read so much text, but it looks cromulent:
And the same (laws) is happening in NL:
Quarantaine wordt verplicht voor wie nauw contact had met coronapatiënt
Personen die in nauw contact zijn geweest met coronapatiënten moeten verplicht in thuisquarantaine, schrijft minister Hugo de Jonge (Volksgezondheid) dinsdag in een brief aan de Tweede Kamer.
www.nu.nl
... but will it really come to that?
unable to read so much text, but it looks cromulent:
Phlyra
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On the one hand, new rules do allow for doom scenarios such as exposed in the next videoclip:
And the same (laws) is happening in NL:
Quarantaine wordt verplicht voor wie nauw contact had met coronapatiënt
Personen die in nauw contact zijn geweest met coronapatiënten moeten verplicht in thuisquarantaine, schrijft minister Hugo de Jonge (Volksgezondheid) dinsdag in een brief aan de Tweede Kamer.
... but will it really come to that?
unable to read so much text, but it looks cromulent:
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
What about French Fries? They make us fat and sick and we blame French people for that. That's a bit racist too. Let's call them FrieFoo-29 for Fried Food 1629.
I mean the Wuhan Virus.
Phlyra
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Having personally witnessed a racist attack on an Asian couple (actually I should clarify: “Asian-looking” since I don’t actually know what their nationality was) exiting a Chinese café shortly before lockdown, I can attest to the incorrect use of describing viruses by national “origin” as a motivating factor in unjustified attacks based on race.
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Phlyra
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People *want* to eat culinary delicacies and *enjoy* doing so. If done in moderation, it isn’t irresponsible, sadomasochistic, or fatal and racist attacks are far less likely to be carried out based on (again incorrect) “national” origin of the culinary delicacies. Viruses (and our behaviour concerning them) are a completely different matter.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
Peanuts are not nuts either but that does not prevent me from calling them "peanuts".
I'm also not sure if Native Americans are really native Americans. I do not know their full history. To me "Native American" is a name, not a description. So both names are etymologically misleading when I use them. I normally just go with what people understand and triggers the least people.
Post automatically merged:
How did you confirm that it was the usage of origins in the title of viruses that led to the assault?
Phlyra
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Unless deliberately increasing likelihood of infection without touching someone may be classed as “assault”, I’m not sure it would have been classed as “assault” since no physical contact was involved, but the attackers were deliberately mock coughing and sneezing at this young couple - and only at them - as they exited the café. The mock sneezing and coughing only began when they saw this couple exit the café and only stopped when I challenged the attackers to stop being racist, which they just laughed off in an immature manner. The fact that the couple looked Asian and that the café was a Chinese café were quite clearly the motivating factors at a time just before lockdown (context).
Such an attack might seem petty to many people but put yourself in the shoes of that young couple: would such behaviour make you feel unwelcome, or fear a deterioration into worse acts (such as have indeed happened)?
You might be naming things according to a system with which we grew up/were conditioned purely out of a sense of logic but there are racists who are carrying out attacks using an incorrect, inaccurate and unprofessional naming system as a springboard (particularly when the arguably most powerful person in the World uses it as a dog whistle to encourage their followers to do exactly that). Calling something by its correct, accurate and professional name isn’t exactly regressive now, is it? I would also argue that it is actually more logical to “call a spade a spade”...
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levi
Still fresh, damnit!
According to some research I've just done on wikipedia, the native americans (which includes natives of south america all the way to canada; they're all the same people) came across during the last ice age when the sea level was a lot lower and there was a land bridge known as beringia connecting between what is now known as russia and canada (although a lot of it was covered in an ice sheet at the time). Apparently native australians arrived mostly earlier, perhaps by land bridge or by boat.
Bosbeetle
Terminally lost
Guns Germs and Steel is recommened reading on this subject 
(one thing that struck me in this book is the idea that moving about on the same latitude across the longtitude is easy, hence eurasia was populated fast from the middle east. But traveling to different latitudes needs a lot of adaptation, I read the book during a trip to the north cape and there you could see the environment change every km more north so that idea really struck with me).
(one thing that struck me in this book is the idea that moving about on the same latitude across the longtitude is easy, hence eurasia was populated fast from the middle east. But traveling to different latitudes needs a lot of adaptation, I read the book during a trip to the north cape and there you could see the environment change every km more north so that idea really struck with me).
ElPoco
Hardcore Member
I think it's the other way around: it's positive for France. Remember that when France opposed the war in Iraq, warmongering people in the US wanted to rename them "Freedom Fries".
As for the virus, callling it "the Chinese virus" does lead to more prejudice against Chinese people (and generally Asian people, since many people can't tell the difference). It also tarnishes the reputation of the country, which means that the next time there's an epidemic disease, the country where it appears might want to keep silent and wait for another country to get it so that they don't get a bad rep, which means that we'll have less time to prepare for it.
So feel free to use your freedom of speech to make things worse, but don't be surprised if other people use their freedom of speech to call you out for that.
λ the β-Redex Reducer
β-Redex Reducing Member
Even if that's the case, were they not racist before they heard terms like "Chinese Flu" and "Wuhan Virus"? How do you know that those terms motivated their racism?
So should we call peanuts "pealegumes"?
So how do you call the Spanish Flu?
Also, what about people who call it COVID-19 but claim it's origin is China. That's even worse, because they explicitedly state that the disease came from China. Should we call them out for that too? Should there be social stigma in researching where COVID-19 came from? Or are we allowed to research that as long as our conclusion is "not Asia"?
Robert Taylor
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Guns Germs and Steel is recommened reading on this subject
Thanks. Added to reading list.
ElPoco
Hardcore Member
I actually call the "Spanish Flu" the "1918 Flu" because I realized that most people thought it was localized in Spain and the neighboring countries.
I don't have a problem with people claiming that the Covid-19 originated from China, that seems to be the consensus. I have a problem with people insisting on calling it "The Chinese Flu" in a context where it's clearly observable that doing so lead to increased prejudice against Chinese people.
I don't have a problem with people claiming that the Covid-19 originated from China, that seems to be the consensus. I have a problem with people insisting on calling it "The Chinese Flu" in a context where it's clearly observable that doing so lead to increased prejudice against Chinese people.
This is actually the problem. Most racists are racists because of such things. Because they're told that the Chinese (or any other people) are stealing their job, that the Chinese are spreading disease. Little things like that are what keep racism alive.
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