Could the pandora / pyra / or next generation model be much thinner?


Askarus

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Once the case is finished, that should be the final case for this company as long as possible. If we never designed a new case again, it would be great, and I think that was the point, what with how the CPU board is designed to be upgradeable. The form is for function, with aesthetics working around it.
There will be redesigns of the case.
The lid could be made thinner for example without affecting any of the internals.

Also there might be an USB-C variant at some point which also would require a case redesign.

That is not against the modular nature of the device.
If you want to upgrade to USB-C, keep everything but but the mainboard and the bottom housing.
 

renegadechic

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Obviously ED and the team can do as they please, I just don't really see the point, at least when it comes to the lid. Case related changes have been such a bane to this project, with so many delays, it seems as though it would just be additional cost burden and project lag.

Can certainly see the benefit of USB-C. And if parts, like screens, become obsolete and available alternatives need some adjustments then okay.

All these things need to be weighed against each other though, and the less hold up there is due to non essential changes the better, surely?
 
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Confuzzled

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Bigger pockets are cheaper, and easier to repair. Thinness is overrated, and means compromises on battery-size, and device repairability, maintainability, and upgradeability. Get thee behind me, Satan.
 

λ the β-Redex Reducer

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I used to really want USB-C support in the Pyra but now I resigned to using old hardware (which I realised is all I need when I achieved enlightement) it suddenly got a lot less useful to me. USB-A and USB-B Micro are what I want.

I think USB-C might be nice for other people though as the older ports are getting phased out.
 

Git1

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Im fine whit the bulkyness of the Pyra, allthought i made the Mistake to carry the Pyra last year on my big Sunday E-Bike Tours, until i hit a Troitwar ( i dont know what is the right term in English), and fell on the Pyra,
dont worry, the Pyra is fine, i only had to reconnect one Peg in the Display Frame,
But now i have some mobility issue: i cant move my right leg up that high anymore, so E-Bike Driving was this summer canceled, and i hope i can recover this ..
Is this the first report of a Pyra-induced injury? :oops:
 

matzesu

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Well, at least the first injury that was reportet, might be some other Pyra owners got much worse, but they thent to be quite silent, there arend not that many Pyra owners out there making videos .. ^^

Next time i will drive E-Bike, i will do it whitouth Pyra in Pocket, maybe put it in the Front or Back Frame Case, or drive whit Bike Cloths.. (maybe then i ditnt need that much Batterie Power)..
 

matzesu

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It’s more a Rhein Frankophonia Dialekt Thing: whe are quite near to French in “Saarland” so whe use a bit more French Words or something ..

So in my Mouth Art it’s “Trotwar”
The pavement or the sidewalk..

Where’re there was the incident , the Bike Lane is in the Sidewalk, but I catched the false part of it .., so my Frontwheel got stuck ..
it wasn’t fast, but enough to cause this issue..
 

atari_afternoon

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I wish in Indonesia there were more trottoirs :) you basically walk in the street , or sit on a friend's motorbike backseat.
 

λ the β-Redex Reducer

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Enlightenment literally means NO hardware.
And then just doing it all in your head. That would be very enlightened. I wonder if that level of enlightenment can be achieved without going breatharian.

Anyway, It seemed like a revelation when I realised that my computing needs are so low that I might as well be using old 32-bit hardware. Besides the lower costs and heightened environment friendliness, this also makes avoiding the IME much easier. It looks to me like Intel was not as invested in spyware back in a large part of the 32-bit era as they are now. 4GB ought to be enough for anybody.

Is this the first report of a Pyra-induced injury? :oops:
Maybe check PAERS.
 

oskda

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Hello,

Have you got a brick into your pocket?

Could the pandora / pyra / or next generation model be much thinner?

Any ideas how to make it thinner, regarding hardware are welcome.

Kind regards,
James

We can have ideas but problem is MONEY and TIME, a lot of both, and we, nor ED, have those.

My ideas:

-Put CPU board on upper side, and use aluminiun back so it would be a big heat radiator for SOC/CPU connecting CPU to aluminum back (frame around display could be insulated from that heat radiator for CPU). Battery would continue on lower side, much cooler (no heat from CPU/SOC). It would have only 2 PCB, one on each side (today we have 3: two on bottom part and other on upper part).

Pepole who says: but you can't put CPU next to display becuase it would burn for heat... Well, our samrphones have that. My smartphone is 7 mm thick and CPU plus LCD display are inside those 7 mm case, it has 4 years of intense use and LCD display is perfect, no damage from CPU/SOC heat. In Pyra it woulf be better because, while not having battery on upper part, it could add insulator and connect CPU/SOC directly to aluminiun upper case, to act as a very big raditor.

People who says: but you can't put CPU on top part and keyboard/battery/some ports on lower side. Well, I have convertible computers where CPU is on tablet part and you can have other battery and ports on optional keyboard base or in a dock (USB 3, HDMI, etc).

-Use OLED display. I don't like them in normal devices because with use they burn-in, but if it was Pyra I could replace it when it got burned in a few years.

-Forget plastic case, instead use aluminum on top part and aluminum or MgCast on down (it is an alloy of Al+Mg).

-You don't need a very big battery but a fast battery swap system (without turning machine off: this can be solved using two half capacity batteries inside, two equal batteries, or one big and one very very small to maintain energy while swapping big battery). For example instead of 6000 mAh battery it can have 3000 mAh battery (plus a very small to maintain energy a minute for battery change, or two 1500 mAh batteries inside) and a fast swap battery system (for example similar to those on some cameras, where you open a door and battery is ejected). Pyra would be lighter, you would have less weight on your hands.

I think on my cell phone: it is 7 mm thick and it has removable battery, with a much better system than Pyra for battery insertion/extraction: it has metal case and bolts (I have it from 4 years ago and I have changed battery thousands of times, as usually I don't charge battery inside but outside smartphone and I interchange them). So Pyra 2 could be 7mm+10mm thick (10 mm for keyboard, battery, modem, etc), that is 1,7 cm.

What is the problem: MONEY+RESORUCES, big money+resoruces. A big company with tons of money, resources and know-how, can do a smartphone in 7 mm (and it could do a Pyra 2 in 1,7 cm), but we don't have those resources. And that big company makes devices selling by hundred of thousand, or even millions, nor a device for a few thousands.

With actual resources I don't see options for important imoprovements on thickness. As much screen part could be a bit thiner (ED mentioned it). But lower part is a mess: even actually there are a lot of problems to put a modern SOC because there is very little vertical space for it and for dissipation. It wasn't considered on original design, so now there is a big problem for future CPU boards.

With my idea (CPU on top part connected to aluminum back as radiator) it could be marvellous, but that is not possible, nor it will be, because of money+resoruces. Simply look the problems ED has found on actual Pyra; How would he (or someone of us with less money and less experience) start other from zero?

Even with all that problems and very very big delay, Pyra continues being unique, there is no other similar machine: pocket size (even thick) with back-lit keyboard plus complete gamming controls inside (even thouse gamming controlls would be good for serious use: you can combine thumb triggers with keys, and use analog sticks as mouses).
 

oskda

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To be honest, once I got used to the more bulky Pyra, the slimmer Pandora does not feel as comfortable to hold any more.

You are right: if bottom part is too thin it is less confortable to hold on hands while playing or typing, and use while holding (like in a Nintendo DS) is the normal way to use Pyra, it is not machine sitting on a desktop. If it would be much thin it would need other body form to be comfortable.

For example Nintendo DS Lite is not comfortable for extended periods (thin and flat), while GBA is very good because it is not flat-square but rounded body.
 

EvilDragon

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Yep, money ressources is basically the biggest issue for anything Pyra related.
If someone would sponsor me a great amount of money, I'd use it to fully redesign the case from scratch and create a new CPU-Board right away.

It's always money that holds up good hardware ideas :(
Time is not that big of a problem, as you can hire people doing these tasks if the money is there.

That said, here are some things that could make the CURRENT Pyra (as it is) thinner:

  1. The lid could be made 1mm thinner, there's quite a bit of air there.
  2. The lower part could be made 1mm thinner, as with a sliding battery door (which was my original idea, but the original company happily ignored that...), we could save space.
  3. The case thickness could be be made thinner. The walls have a 1mm thickness everywhere - but that's what the machines we use can currently do. For thinner plastics, you need different injection moulding machines.
So yeah, there are a few things, 2mm would be possible with a "simple" case redesign.

How could it be made thinner IF we change the Pyra design?
  1. We could use a thinner LCD with a capacitive touchscreen and also make the display board thinner, then we could make the lid thinner as well. Thinner PCBs do cost more money though.
  2. The buttom part could be made thinner if we switched to dome cap keyboards (the clicky keyboards used on most other devices). That would probably make it possible to decrease the thickness by 3 - 4mm. But is that desired? Making the bottom part too thin is awkward to hold it in your hands (as previously mentioned) and I'm also not a fan of dome cap keys (they also wear out).
  3. The battery could be put inside the case (without any battery door at all). That would make production a lot cheaper, but couldn't change your battery without unscrewing the backside.
So yeah, there are some ways. And having it a bit thinner (same size as the Pandora) would be great - and that was also what I had planned (had the first case company not fucked up).
 

oskda

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In my use case this could give issues while using normal desktop interfaces in the tiny display... I like the almost pixel precise touch I have in the Pandora.
It think there are some displays integrating wacom-like digitizer, but I will be more expensive. With tose you have capacitive touch plus precise pen use. We can see that on a lot of convertible computers and on some smartphones (for example Galaxy Note models).
 
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