Compiz On Pandora

[wiimario]

Yesterday i've installed ubuntu 9.10 karmic koala and when I booted it the first time awindow popup asked me if I wanted to install compiz. I said yes then i've configured the plugins and i've seen the graphics of compiz (cube, firetagging, rain, destroying windows, etc.).
now i'll ask you, is it possible to port compiz on pandora? it's open source and i don't think that the hardware is a problem (it runs perfectly on my eeepc with antivirus, gimp, firefox and openoffice open.)

so will the pandacompiz born?

 

[Near_Kstor]

Perhaps the current compiz won't work, but I heard the compiz team is working on some kind of "renew all", rebuilding it from the ground up to be very optimized- to the point it won't even need a GPU to run smoothly.

When this remade Compiz is out, I'm sure we will see it running on our Pandorae. Until that day, it may be possible, but not 100% sure.

 

[hobbyman II]

wasn't Ubuntu shown on Pandora?, didn`t the poster say it had compiz enabled by default?, I know compiz is the standard window manager for Ubuntu (not sure about Pandora running Ubuntu cos I read so many tech sites I get muddled sometimes), it should be possible imo, even netbooks with low end Intel video hardware can run compiz.

 

[wiimario]

wasn't Ubuntu shown on Pandora?, didn`t the poster say it had compiz enabled by default?, I know compiz is the standard window manager for Ubuntu (not sure about Pandora running Ubuntu cos I read so many tech sites I get muddled sometimes), it should be possible imo, even netbooks with low end Intel video hardware can run compiz.

No the standard manager is GNOME or KDE

 

[fettouhi]

wasn't Ubuntu shown on Pandora?, didn`t the poster say it had compiz enabled by default?, I know compiz is the standard window manager for Ubuntu (not sure about Pandora running Ubuntu cos I read so many tech sites I get muddled sometimes), it should be possible imo, even netbooks with low end Intel video hardware can run compiz.

I don't the video driver that pandora uses supports AIGLX. Which is needed for desktop acceleration.

 

[Letalis Sonus]

wasn't Ubuntu shown on Pandora?, didn`t the poster say it had compiz enabled by default?, I know compiz is the standard window manager for Ubuntu (not sure about Pandora running Ubuntu cos I read so many tech sites I get muddled sometimes), it should be possible imo, even netbooks with low end Intel video hardware can run compiz.

No the standard manager is GNOME or KDE

KDE and GNOME are desktop environments, not window managers. GNOME's default window manager is Metacity and KDE's is KWin.

The problem is OpenGL ES. AFAIK Compiz is currently only supporting OpenGL, someone needs to port it to OpenGL ES first.

 

[hobbyman II]

I know that, Gnome and KDE are desktops, the windows manager is something different all together, and the WINDOW manager for Ubuntu defaults to compiz, not metacity, I know cos six of my machines run Ubuntu (Karmic or Jaunty), and compiz is on by default (even in netbook remix), big annoyance is one of my older laptops uses atifire9000i chipset, and they stopped supporting that chipset in the official (ATI) Linux drivers, so I went from being able to run UT2004 just fine to running it at 1fps, ATI are idiots, must spend some time and get that sorted, just a matter of knowing how to lock the system so updates don't replace the useful ATI driver with the open source crap one it currently tries to use (and I have to find the right driver version, install routine, x settings etc etc)


Pandora running Ubuntu

here's the video, it looks like it may be using compiz from the window decorations, but he has effects turned off if that's the case, seems somewhat slow, but I'm guessing that's running off the SD card rather than internal nand, just guessing here since the desktop is xfce, I know from past experience that installing basic metacity to Ubuntu loses you the window decorations, I guess metacity has some other way of doing it, or there's some settings I don't know about, so little time, so many options

 

[conso]

I know that, Gnome and KDE are desktops, the windows manager is something different all together, and the WINDOW manager for Ubuntu defaults to compiz, not metacity, I know cos six of my machines run Ubuntu (Karmic or Jaunty), and compiz is on by default (even in netbook remix), big annoyance is one of my older laptops uses atifire9000i chipset, and they stopped supporting that chipset in the official (ATI) Linux drivers, so I went from being able to run UT2004 just fine to running it at 1fps, ATI are idiots, must spend some time and get that sorted, just a matter of knowing how to lock the system so updates don't replace the useful ATI driver with the open source crap one it currently tries to use (and I have to find the right driver version, install routine, x settings etc etc)

if aiglx isn't available on ubuntu. it will fall back to metacity. since pandora's video-driver won't support aiglx, metacity is what we will get.
About the closed-source-ati-driver: It's not that ubuntu just stopped supporting it, but those drivers need to be adopted to new kernel versions. So if your ati-card is not supported by the cs-driver any more and you get a kernel newer then the last ati-driver released for your card, you're stuck with the open-source driver. That's just how it is. That copen-source driver once was in a very good state but is currently undergoing heavy redesign to support new technologies. Bet it will be back in pretty good shape in 6-12 months.

 

[hobbyman II]

why doesn't aiGlx run on Pandora, it has (a version of) a GL driver, is it just that nobody has recompiled aiGlx for the chipset, or does it use features not supported by the hardware?, could it be re-written?, I should think the hardware is capable of the window effects.

edit: just seen your edit, so if I want my old Acer to run UT2004 then best bet is to install Ubuntu 5.10 or earlier?, (it got hosed about that time), so that I am using an earlier kernel/drivers?

this Extensa is way newer but has the liability of an Intel chipset for the video, it won,t run UT at any usable rate even if I remove Compiz, we used to get this a lot on the DarkBasic forum, people would complain about incredibly slow code, you say "what gfx chip?" and invariably the reply was "Intel extreme blah blah", what they didn't know was Intel meant it was extremely slow, not fast (jk), Intel chipsets (imo) have trouble rendering 2D at a decent speed, you can forget most 3D

 

[conso]

why doesn't aiGlx run on Pandora, it has (a version of) a GL driver, is it just that nobody has recompiled aiGlx for the chipset, or does it use features not supported by the hardware?, could it be re-written?, I should think the hardware is capable of the window effects.

edit: just seen your edit, so if I want my old Acer to run UT2004 then best bet is to install Ubuntu 5.10 or earlier?, (it got hosed about that time), so that I am using an earlier kernel/drivers?

this Extensa is way newer but has the liability of an Intel chipset for the video, it won,t run UT at any usable rate even if I remove Compiz, we used to get this a lot on the DarkBasic forum, people would complain about incredibly slow code, you say "what gfx chip?" and invariably the reply was "Intel extreme blah blah", what they didn't know was Intel meant it was extremely slow, not fast (jk), Intel chipsets (imo) have trouble rendering 2D at a decent speed, you can forget most 3D

aiglx is a feature in the graphics-driver, iirc an openGL-extension. You can't just compile a library for that and nobody believes it will be integrated in the binary blob we will get for the chip. The hardware is capable of it, but that alone doesn't get us any closer to using it. As was already mentioned, aiglx isn't the only way to get window-effects, just the only method most current-generation wms support. The kde-on-n900 project will probably be the best bet for us, but don't wait for it.
And yes, an older ubuntu-version with an older kernel will get you the closed-source driver back. Make sure you pick a distribution that is still supported, the last ubuntu lts-version should still support rv300/350 cards, else you're risking a lot.

 

[dflemstr]

The kde-on-n900 project will probably be the best bet for us, but don't wait for it.

I don't think so, actually. KWin is built in a very modular way, in that it doesn't rely on X.Org at all. This means that it's completely aiglx agnostic, and already supports OGLES 2.0 rendering through another pipeline etc. Since aiglx is completely incompatible with OGL ES, I think that Nokia will take a safer route and, instead of using existing X extensions, they will somehow use Qt Embedded's GL capabilities to render all windows. Just a guess, of course.

 

[conso]

The kde-on-n900 project will probably be the best bet for us, but don't wait for it.

I don't think so, actually. KWin is built in a very modular way, in that it doesn't rely on X.Org at all. This means that it's completely aiglx agnostic, and already supports OGLES 2.0 rendering through another pipeline etc. Since aiglx is completely incompatible with OGL ES, I think that Nokia will take a safer route and, instead of using existing X extensions, they will somehow use Qt Embedded's GL capabilities to render all windows. Just a guess, of course.

I don't see where we disagree ^^
Do you think kde for omap with window-effects will be available and usable soon? Else I tried to say exactly that

 

[lulzfish]

The kde-on-n900 project will probably be the best bet for us, but don't wait for it.

I don't think so, actually. KWin is built in a very modular way, in that it doesn't rely on X.Org at all. This means that it's completely aiglx agnostic, and already supports OGLES 2.0 rendering through another pipeline etc. Since aiglx is completely incompatible with OGL ES, I think that Nokia will take a safer route and, instead of using existing X extensions, they will somehow use Qt Embedded's GL capabilities to render all windows. Just a guess, of course.

I don't see where we disagree ^^
Do you think kde for omap with window-effects will be available and usable soon? Else I tried to say exactly that

I think they're already running prototypes on the N900, at least some Plasma stuff.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=040BbTRLKdM

I'm not sure when they'll get to KWin.

 

[dflemstr]

I don't see where we disagree ^^
Do you think kde for omap with window-effects will be available and usable soon? Else I tried to say exactly that

Oh I must have misread your post, I thought you meant us to depend on Nokia porting aiglx.

I'll take a look at the code base, and maybe try to cross-compile the latest KDE port, just to see what kind of dependencies it has and what caveats we might have to be aware of.

@lulzfish: Plasma is pretty easy to get running, since all plasmoids share the same window and thus doesn't need anything external to KDE to run.

 

[BackAssward]

...plasmoids

I have nothing to add to this discussion, I just have to say: I think the term 'plasmoids' is awesome. It sounds like a fictional retro game... something from the Tron era, something you'd find in Flin's arcade).

Just checked, the game is 'Space Paranoids'... so I wasn't that far off.

 

[hobbyman II]

strangely, fictional retro game could describe the setting for BioShock, and in that game too, you get to use plasmoids as weapons :unsure:

syncronicity... :huh:

 

[borgqueenx]

Compiz is the app i want to use for pandora as eye candy. Its simply sooo cool....!

 

[Alibobar]

^ sorry, I just think of this.

I think running Compiz would look 'cool', but wouldn't make the device any more practical or fast.
I'd rather have good design (with either the pnd-menu or xfce desktop) than some swirling effects that distract from any real use

 

[borgqueenx]

^ sorry, I just think of this.

I think running Compiz would look 'cool', but wouldn't make the device any more practical or fast.
I'd rather have good design (with either the pnd-menu or xfce desktop) than some swirling effects that distract from any real use

plasma also looks nice i dont care if its compiz, plasma or something else. Some desktop eyecandy would be just awesome

if someone makes it happen for pandora it would be sweet

 

[Wheels]

Xfce has its own compositing window manager, right? May not have all the fancy plugins like Compiz but it should enable at least a bit of eye candy, like transparency and shadows (assuming the graphics in the OMAP support it). I think e17 has more effects built-in.