Bush Lets U.s. Spy On Callers Without Courts!

[BWF89]

hey, NO ONE voted for bush....

they just voted against kerry

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Yep.

It's a 2 party system.

 

[The Wub]

The US has a base in the UK for monitoring international calls so we are also potentianlly being spied on. The base is at Menwith Hill.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

 

[Mark]

the electoral college, while still somewhat stupid, has some solid reasoning behind it.

as i said before, i'm not too into politics, but one thing i'm definitely for: Flat tax

liberals say that its not fair because the rich should have to pair more than the poor. However, this is a stupid argument because this is based off of percentages so therefore the rich WILL pay more than the poor. So now we have a tax code that is hundreds of thousands of pages long so that everyone is taxed "fairly".....

so, now, let's say you have person A who works one part time job at McDonald's and then you have person B who works a part time job at McDonalds and another part time job elsewhere. For every dollar that Person A makes working at McDonalds, he will have to pay .20 of it to taxes, leaving him with 80 cents. For every dollar that Person B makes working at McDonalds, he will have to pay .35 of it to taxes leaving him with 65 cents. For the exact same amount of work, person B will have to give the government more money than person A because he has a second job and therefore makes more money (he works his ass off!). What the hell?!?!

*NOTE*
The figures above are made up because I didn't feel like finding a real-life example. I have, however, extensively studied both ends of the argument and understand them better than most people.

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If someone makes more money, then I can't see what's wrong with them paying more in tax than the poorer. If they are left with less money at the end for working more hours in the same job due to a higher tax then there's certainly a problem.

The argument isn't that the poor will pay poor; it's that a 22.5% tax or whatever it would be would be worse for those with little money than those with alot of money. The poor would be paying more than they do now; if the rich pay 40% and the poor 10% currently, surely a flat tax would have to be somewhere between the two figures?

 

[Goity]

Anyhoo, the extra tax is only applied to the money earned after the tax margins.

 

[Klown]

The US has a base in the UK for monitoring international calls so we are also potentianlly being spied on. The base is at Menwith Hill.
Sorry if this has already been mentioned.

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God bless ye echelon! When there is a nuclear war It will vapourise my entire town so I don't have to walk around bleeding out of my eyes.

 

[deadlychicken22]

I don't feel like getting into a big political discussion about flat tax, so i won't argue the political views on it. However, i'd like you to know that in flat tax there would be about 3 determining factors for your taxes. Your home status (are you married? Are you single? Are you the head of your household? (pay the bills)), how many children you have, and, of course, your income. A certain amount of money will be taken from your taxable income depending on your home status and for each child you have that requires care (i believe this would include <18 years old or some mental illnesses). What is left of your taxable income (your income minus the above deductions) will be taxed at a constant rate (this rate has been widely debated. It is the common belief that 22% would take in as much taxes as we do right now). So if you don't make a lot of money, are single, and you have a couple children, you may not have to pay any income taxes at all because once you take out the deductions you will have no taxable income left.


Ponder this thought:
If someone works the exact same job as someone else, why the hell should the government take more from them than the other person, simply because they have a second job? (and therefore make more money). If the other person wished to make more money he could go out and find a second job. But he doesn't. So why the hell tax him less?

 

[Rayek]

Ah... I love politics, but I hate them because I can't do anything about them.

I think a flat tax would be nice, but for some reason the billions of dollars some people make from screwing people over seems to warrant a greater tax than those at the bottom. I have no problem with welfare, medicaid, anything like that. I think the more socialized the system becomes, the better we are off. We have to figure out better ways of dealing with problems than people saying, "Oops, it's every man for himself.... now FIGHT!" We should feel responsible for our fellow man/woman. I think that's kind of the problem with Americans in their view (stereotypically) of the world at large. We think, "Why the hell should I help people in other countries? They can fix it themselves." As far as taxes go, I don't think anyone should pay Bush taxes because he'll just use the money to spy on us and fund his war with the world.

 

[daclassicgamingmaster]

just read on another forum Bush is getting a lot of shit form this and may be impeached.

Wishful thinking imo, but you never know *hopes*

 

[Rayek]

You know that the amount of money spent on investigating 9-11 was significantly less than the money spent investigating wether or not Clinton got his dick sucked. That to me is incredibly sad. but i think the 'impeachment' that people are talking about is similar to the impeachment that Clinton was to recieve, carried out by left or right extremists and gain no sway at all in the public's opinion. Only in a perfect world where international terror and war laws matter would this be possible.

 

[LHC]

Flat tax is obviously fairer, but until we get rid of social security, it isnt feasible.

 

[Mark]

Flat tax is obviously fairer, but until we get rid of social security, it isnt feasible.

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Well, thank God that'll never happen due to us being a compassionate society.

 

[deadlychicken22]

Flat tax is obviously fairer, but until we get rid of social security, it isnt feasible.

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Well, thank God that'll never happen due to us being a compassionate society.

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I don't know about the UK but here (USA) social security really sucks. And even if it worked well, why the hell should the government control my investments? If i feel like putting money into some sort of investment account for my retirement then I can. If not, well, it's my money to spend so why the hell should they tell me how I have to spend it.

 

[DaveC]

Flat tax is obviously fairer, but until we get rid of social security, it isnt feasible.

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Well, thank God that'll never happen due to us being a compassionate society.

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I don't know about the UK but here (USA) social security really sucks. And even if it worked well, why the hell should the government control my investments? If i feel like putting money into some sort of investment account for my retirement then I can. If not, well, it's my money to spend so why the hell should they tell me how I have to spend it.

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Because too many stupid people will invest in risky stocks and will lose all of their Social Security money. Then you will have millions that are flat broke and need government welfare assistance just to stay alive. So you now have a bigger drain on the economy than you have now. That is why that moron Bush's plan is so dangerous. He just wants it because he is pro big business. He wants big business to thrive at the expense of the US citizen. Bush and his pals have alot of stocks and more investors means higher stock prices and more money for him.

Why do you think gas is so expensive? Because Bush, an old oil man, gets richer from the huge oil company windfalls. That is why he allows them to gouge us. Disgusting really. That whole shortage thing is completely fabricated bullshit meant to fool the public. Oil is still a plentiful resource.

 

[DaveC]

hey, NO ONE voted for bush....

they just voted against kerry

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Yeah but Bush is much worse. The only reason Bush won is because he had the support of all of the ignorant Jesus freaks. They think Bush talks to God :rolleyes: So since most of the US is populated by stupid people we picked the WORST of the two evils

 

[PSyMastR]

I so hope he gets impeached. Then my country will be FREE AGAIN!

 

[deadlychicken22]

DaveC: i sure hope you don't honestly believe everything you said there.... i understand that some of what you said is true, but surely you realize it wasn't just the "jesus freaks" that voted for Bush :unsure:

About the other stuff: the government has to stop babying the people. If they choose to screw their lives over completely, well, that's their choice. The government isn't responsible for correcting their mistakes.

 

[DaveC]

DaveC: i sure hope you don't honestly believe everything you said there.... i understand that some of what you said is true, but surely you realize it wasn't just the "jesus freaks" that voted for Bush :unsure:

About the other stuff: the government has to stop babying the people. If they choose to screw their lives over completely, well, that's their choice. The government isn't responsible for correcting their mistakes.

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It was mostly the religeous right wing south that put him in, and the main reason for it was stupid religeon.

It is not about "babying". You really have no clue of how things work. You mean to say that the millions of seniors, that gambled away their social security on stocks and are literally bankrupt ,should be left to rot on the streets?

 

[Goity]

Flat tax is obviously fairer, but until we get rid of social security, it isnt feasible.

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Well, thank God that'll never happen due to us being a compassionate society.

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So damn true, Flat tax is stupidity, the extra tax only applies to the money over a certain amount anyway.

 

[deadlychicken22]

It is not about "babying". You really have no clue of how things work. You mean to say that the millions of seniors, that gambled away their social security on stocks and are literally bankrupt ,should be left to rot on the streets?

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... that part wasn't exactly directed towards social security, more of the way in which the government works in general....

So damn true, Flat tax is stupidity, the extra tax only applies to the money over a certain amount anyway.

Which is exactly why our current tax code doesn't make any sense, the more you work the less you make for your work. Again, i don't know how the UK works, so my comments are only referring to the US or governments in general.

 

[Goity]

It is not about "babying". You really have no clue of how things work. You mean to say that the millions of seniors, that gambled away their social security on stocks and are literally bankrupt ,should be left to rot on the streets?

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... that part wasn't exactly directed towards social security, more of the way in which the government works in general....

So damn true, Flat tax is stupidity, the extra tax only applies to the money over a certain amount anyway.

Which is exactly why our current tax code doesn't make any sense, the more you work the less you make for your work. Again, i don't know how the UK works, so my comments are only referring to the US or governments in general.

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Well, in the UK, The extra tax is only taken from the amount after the limt, eg. say that after £50,000 of income you get taxed 95% (theoretically!), and you earn £55,000, only that last £5,000 would be taxed at 95%.