Bittorent distribution

[Yannick]

File Archives are very nice and such, but ...


How about we maintain a giant torrent of everything that runs on the Pandora (and can off-course be legally distributed)


Updates are as simple as feeding your client a new torrent file, and then pointing it to the old directory. Only new pieces will be downloaded.


I already know I will have something similar on my HDD when my Pandora arrives, and my Pandora friends will come to me for batch-upgrades, because i am the only one crazy enough to hunt the web for the latests patches.


Btw, what is several gigabytes of data these days.


EDIT: EvilDragon's file archive could post weekly backups to thepiratebay (give those guys a legal torrent for once)

 

[lulzfish]

Btw, what is several gigabytes of data these days.

Well, I have a 2GB SD card set aside for my Pandora, so several GB of data is several / 2 SD cards.


Maybe they could distribute patches through a torrent. I think WoW has had some success with this.

 

[hedwards]

I'm not sure how much better it would be, but there's always jigdo, if you're going to do regular updates, it's probably a better choice, just because that way you're not having to download the entire thing every week. Or worry about the headaches of just adding a package here or there.

 

[Yannick]

Torrents do incremental updates.


If week2 has files that are different then week1, your client will mark the old files as corrupt and download only the updates


You also don't have to download everything, every good client allows you to select what files/folders to download

 

[Aninhumer]

If OpenPandora can afford the bandwidth, there's no particular benefit to using bittorrent here.


It would mean we could still access stuff when the archive is down, I guess, but it's a lot of hassle for just that.

Torrents do incremental updates.


If week2 has files that are different then week1, your client will mark the old files as corrupt and download only the updates

It's still a little redundant, because bittorrent works with blocks not files, so you have to download some data before and after it as well.


If the block size is large that could be a lot of data.

 

[Yannick]

If OpenPandora can afford the bandwidth, there's no particular benefit to using bittorrent here.


It would mean we could still access stuff when the archive is down, I guess, but it's a lot of hassle for just that.

Clicking download for every file is a hassle as wel, if you could have it al at once


Besides, setting something up like that can be done in bash and that seems to be one of ED's hobby's

It's still a little redundant, because bittorrent works with blocks not files, so you have to download some data before and after it as well.


If the block size is large that could be a lot of data.

true, but how much do you care for a couple of megs of download bandwidth? I've got a 200 Gb/month download limit, thats rather limited compared to what other people have here. I haven't bothered to check file sizes for over 5 years, luxury problem i guess.


besides, using 4MB blocks when alot of the files are smaller than that would be really stupid.

 

[craigix]

I like the idea more and more, we can do this, a card with every emu set up, every good game etc. etc. I think it would maybe clock in at 1GB but would be perfect to get going fast.

 

[Yannick]

I like the idea more and more, we can do this, a card with every emu set up, every good game etc. etc. I think it would maybe clock in at 1GB but would be perfect to get going fast.

I approve

 

[Prometheus]

true, but how much do you care for a couple of megs of download bandwidth?

Well, I'm uncapped myself, but I care a lot because my download speed is only 1mbps at best, and downloads of a few hundred MB (the only big downloads I ever do are when I need to burn a LiveCD) take several hours and prevent me from easily browsing the web at the same time in many cases.

 

[Aninhumer]

Clicking download for every file is a hassle as wel, if you could have it al at once


Besides, setting something up like that can be done in bash and that seems to be one of ED's hobby's

I guess for mass downloading it's a good idea, but I'm not convinced that's a very practical thing to do.


Do you really every app ever made on your Pandora?


Including all the weird niche apps, like interfacing apps for old hardware you don't even own?


Also, maybe they'll all fit on a one SD now, but the amount of apps will grow and at some point it will be impossible, or at least very expensive.


It's also possible there will be conflicts between apps at some point in the future.


That said, once Craig decides what's going to be on the SD for the media, it might be a good idea to make a torrent of that.

 

[GunPei2X]

There used to be a GP2X torrent site, which was a great resource.

 

[Yannick]

Do you really every app ever made on your Pandora?

YES, including source while you are at it.

Also, maybe they'll all fit on a one SD now, but the amount of apps will grow and at some point it will be impossible, or at least very expensive.

Bigger SD-card / HDD, faster internet connection

It's also possible there will be conflicts between apps at some point in the future.

I call that a bug => add to bug-tracker

That said, once Craig decides what's going to be on the SD for the media, it might be a good idea to make a torrent of that.

This is prolly what will hapen (that is my gutfeeling, nothing confirmed)


besides, that will need updates as well


And you can be shure, my pc wil be seeding the latest version

 

[gibberish]

you'll need a dat file too, so that old versions of software can be automatically removed before the new version is downloaded. just the same way that rom collections are maintained in clrmamepro or romcenter.

 

[hedwards]

Torrents do incremental updates.


If week2 has files that are different then week1, your client will mark the old files as corrupt and download only the updates


You also don't have to download everything, every good client allows you to select what files/folders to download

I hadn't thought about that, but I guess it would depend a lot on what compression algorithm if any you're using. If it's just an uncompressed ISO or equivalent, that would probably work, however some of the block sort compression algorithms could presumably really mess up that sort of thing depending upon the specifics.

 

[b1ueskycomp1ex]

It could be a pack that consists of something like:

• All recent and up-to-date Pandora Applications
  
• All recent and up-to-date Pandora Emulators
  
• Proper directory structure (extract to SD card root)
  
• Common Zip format (no special unzipping tools required)
  
• Place a PND containing a readme on the desktop (Detailing what's included, etc. - possibly with a checkbox to remove itself)
  
• Could be released via Torrent, or any number of file upload websites (rapidshare, megaupload, mediafire, etc.) to conserve bandwidth.
  
• ???
  
• Profit!
  

Also, I've been thinking that it would be interesting to have a PND package manager of some kind. One that can be called when you download a .PND file using a browser. It would pop up and ask you where you'd like the PND file installed to (SD1, SD2, Menu, desktop, both?) and further streamline the application installation process. Some kind of simple interactivity between the file archive and/or pandora store would also be something interesting, if at all possible. This program would also allow you to move PND files around without the use of the file manager, making everything very Gui-Centric and dare I say newbie-proof. Copying and pasting single-file applications around is nice, but a streamlined interface for downloading, installing, and managing PNDs would be great and would give the machine's application handling a bit more polish. Server-side reading of the PND's category information, screenshot, and description would make it all the better!


Just dreaming there. Carry on.

 

[Granitehead]

Didn't read the whole thread, but: I want Packagerepositorys, where I can write something like "sudo opkg update" and everything is updated.

 

[Aninhumer]

Bigger SD-card / HDD, faster internet connection

I was meaning, it might grow beyond the size of SDs that exist.

I call that a bug => add to bug-tracker

There are sometimes apps that conflict because you're never supposed to install them at the same time.


Admittedly most of the cases I'm thinking of are with installed packages, but we can't assume it will never happen.

I hadn't thought about that, but I guess it would depend a lot on what compression algorithm if any you're using. If it's just an uncompressed ISO or equivalent, that would probably work, however some of the block sort compression algorithms could presumably really mess up that sort of thing depending upon the specifics.

I don't think blocks in files are a problem, at worst a file and the data around it is redownloaded.


Any compressed file will need replacing every time there's an update (unless it's script generated), that's true even without bittorrent.

 

[Yannick]

Threads seem to converge around a StarterKit SD card to show off your new pandora


filled with free (speech) media and possibly distributed as a bin blob on bittorent/OPT server


It's craigix's call as that would be somewhat *official*


Its been stated as well, that care should be taken to review licenses


There seems to be allot of interest in not using the pnd system and going for a package manager,


if i remember correctly it has been discussed and added to the wish-list for future firmware version

 

[dflemstr]

Haven't read whole thread... but why use something as inefficient as torrent for this? Heck, something like Git would be a better (more efficient and stable and sustainable) alternative.


Edit: then there doesn't have to be an 'officially' sanctioned distribution; there would be one central distribution location, but it would be possible for people to distribute their own modifications etc... by publishing via their own repositories.


Edit2: when I think about it; this is exactly what ipkg was made for; no need to reinvent the wheel when we already have a package manager ready to be avused as someone said above.

 

[Yannick]

Haven't read whole thread... but why use something as inefficient as torrent for this? Heck, something like Git would be a better (more efficient and stable and sustainable) alternative.


Edit: then there doesn't have to be an 'officially' sanctioned distribution; there would be one central distribution location, but it would be possible for people to distribute their own modifications etc... by publishing via their own repositories.

alright git is a very good source control system


but bittorent is king for "giant binary blob" type transfers


there's 3 or so threads doing a different interpretation/wish-list for craig's press-release SD-card


that last post of mine was some sort of a summary

Threads seem to converge around a StarterKit SD card to show off your new pandora


filled with free (speech) media and possibly distributed as a bin blob on bittorent/OPT server