Aquaria Ported To Psp Homebrew Before Pandora?

[Exophase]

You're pretty sure about a lot of things, I have read.

Was right about those two things at least ;P

Do you also then account for the differences in i/o throughput on your PC, somehow? Not that I feel like arguing you with you particularly, but I come from a world where you always test first and foremost on your target hardware.

You do too feel like arguing with me, don't lie to me!

I don't need to account for differences in anything on my PC because it's the Pandora that's being tested. The netplay situation should be reasonably symmetrical. Then again that's really just for getting things off the ground - when you really want to test netplay that's when it's time to ask other people to help you. Or does you also account for the differences in I/O throughput on a local network, somehow? (I assume you intend for people to play on The Internet, not your network)

Of course, and you can also just hack SDL-based projects on some other platform and gain a lot of glory from doing a port here and there too, but in my case I want to be able to contribute to the Base OS while also working on user space apps, without interruption. Decades of experience has led to the policy of maintaining different hardware configurations for these two realms, and its worked quite well so far .. so ..

Yeah yeah you're a true hacker and not just doing the easy ports for the Mad Props, not really sure what the application to what I said is but that's all good stuff. Be that as it may, I think the kernel hackers have generally been okay with one Pandora and will probably continue to feel this way. Maybe their context switching between what they work on is not as fine grained as yours, dunno.

And sorry, but my eyes kinda gloss over a little when people start talking about decades of experience with anything. It's a total kneejerk reaction. I can't help it!

When you have a softsynth and want to see that it syncs well with another copy of the softsynth running on another Pandora, its best to have two complete instances of the hardware to test against, lest you run around trying to work out why you're getting better throughput for the job on the mega-PC in comparison to the real hardware you're intending to target .. I'm sure if you'd thought about that, you'd understand.

No, I don't understand your argument at all, please accept my apologies on this one :/ Why would the same thing running on two Pandoras every NOT synch well?

Like I say, you have certainty on a lot of things but certainty isn't the only way to paint the bike shed .. I don't think you're really being honest in looking at my situation: I have two Pandoras because it supports my development efforts, and all I really want to do with the Pandora is develop cool, new, things for it .. so yeah, I got two to help with that, and in fact having two Pandoras definitely helps when I need to switch on new things, test them, verify against a known end-user configuration, and so on ..

Yeah I'm pretty dishonest, I guess.. and something about bikesheds (seriously I dunno, maybe it's just because I can't sleep that I don't know what that cliche means here, or maybe my inability to sleep is why I'm taking out posts on you, dunno)

I just think it's conceited of you to claim that you with two Pandoras is more productive than two decently enthusiastic workers with a Pandora each. You can argue this however you want, I probably won't change my mind. And really there isn't supposed to be something wrong with you having two, but I'm trying to make a point here... because I get this vibe that you're chiding people for doing what they want with their Pandora and not doing what you want, or following more the example you're setting (or think you're setting). When I see you talking about all the things having two helps you with I see someone who has two because it makes him happier, and I think that reasoning should be left at that without bringing utility into it. I think you, as someone who clearly is super into this hacking stuff and derives an awful lot of fun from it should step back and cut the people at large some slack for not feeling exactly the same way as you do. If a platform isn't getting a lot of dev love then sorry, it just means the love probably wasn't meant to be - and you can to some nice positive things to try to play matchmaker and stimulate that but deriding people, sorry no, I'm just not very comfortable with that.

There's really nothing like people telling you you're not doing what they want to make you feel like doing things even less.

 

[torpor]

I just think it's conceited of you to claim that you with two Pandoras is more productive than two decently enthusiastic workers with a Pandora each.

Where did I make that claim? You brought up the fact that I have two Pandoras, in response to me saying "There'd be a lot more homebrew going on if the people who bought Pandoras would actually use them for development and not just EBay price gouging .." .. no mention of my personal situation there. I wish I could work more on Pandora development too. But I do think that there are a lot of people who aren't getting as enthusiastic about developing new titles for their Pandora as there could be, and I wonder what the reason for that is?

I have two Pandoras because I am working on performance-related software and for my needs, having two pieces of the same hardware is very beneficial. That is all. A softsynth running on one, over local WLAN, being compared to another softsynth with slightly tweaked kernel settings == my current test rig. Ummm .. big deal? For music-making, the more devices the merrier.

Why would the same thing running on two Pandoras every NOT synch well?

This is the question being asked with the hardware rig in the first place and as I've already determined, if you want to sync two Pandora's together for music-making, it helps to have two to test against. Last nights test/jam session, for example, revealed that loading from SD on the tweaked kernel is slightly slower than on the currently shipping Base OS kernel, so that was good to know for future reference .. and so on.

you're chiding people for doing what they want with their Pandora and not doing what you want

Who am I chiding exactly? Un-named Pandora owners who aren't doing anything developer'ish with their Pandora's. And? The fact is, with the scarcity of hardware out there already, anyone not using their Pandora's to make new and interesting software releases is a bit of a bore. I have no names in mind, but look at the scene with the developer boards that went out: it cost OPT a lot of time and money to get those boards out (10 or so, wasn't it?), and they have what .. 2, maybe 3 developers who have contributed to the project as a result - there are some dusty Pandora development boards out there, that is a known fact.

There's really nothing like people telling you you're not doing what they want to make you feel like doing things even less.

There's also encouraging others through enthusiasm for the real progress (such as is displayed in this thread) and discouragement for what is, perhaps, a lack of progress.

So, here goes:

IF you are a developer who has a Pandora in front of them and you haven't actually done anything developer'ish on your Pandora for the last 48 hours: SHAME ON YOU!!! In my opinion, you suck! (Maybe others don't think you suck, though, that is their right..)

IF you are a developer with a Pandora and you've just decided to read this thread in between compiles/shipping to your beta testers: YAY FOR YOU!!! GOOD!

IF you are Exophase and you decide that torpor is just a jerk for having an opinion about the lack of development, then: FINE! I think its time we took things personal, anyway, PM me more of your gripes to listen to ..

 

[Bosbeetle]

There'd be a lot more homebrew going on if the people who bought Pandoras would actually use them for development

I would if I could sadly I am only well trained in biochemistry and thats no use on the pandora.

 

[torpor]

I would if I could sadly I am only well trained in biochemistry and thats no use on the pandora.

Well, do you want to develop apps for Pandora? What can you do? Art? Design? Mockups? Ideas? Learn to program in Python? etc?

Seriously though, I'm not calling anyone in particular out on this .. I just want to state the opinion that I really hope we see some creative, new, stuff being developed *for* the Pandora, and not just ports of already-existing projects from other platforms ..

 

[Bosbeetle]

I would if I could sadly I am only well trained in biochemistry and thats no use on the pandora.

Well, do you want to develop apps for Pandora? What can you do? Art? Design? Mockups? Ideas? Learn to program in Python? etc?

Seriously though, I'm not calling anyone in particular out on this .. I just want to state the opinion that I really hope we see some creative, new, stuff being developed *for* the Pandora, and not just ports of already-existing projects from other platforms ..

I want to help the community as much as possible I am doing quite a bit of 'advertisement' and helping out where I can. However I am not in any way capable of doing things out of the ordinary computer wise, like I said I know biochemistry (I am checking pandora stuff between my research). And I think that is what a majority of the pandora owners do, what they can. Others are able to port (like sebt3 etc) and are doing it like mad to get more programs out there. Others are coding games like eniko, pokeparadox, etc. I think this community is quite buzzing but I might be mistaken.

I hope the pandora becomes a succes and I think saying there is not enough homebrew being made for it is a bit soon for a handheld that has been 'out' for only 5 weeks.

 

[torpor]

I hope the pandora becomes a succes and I think saying there is not enough homebrew being made for it is a bit soon for a handheld that has been 'out' for only 5 weeks.

I guess you're right! Sure feels like its been years, though, for some reason ..

 

[Bosbeetle]

I hope the pandora becomes a succes and I think saying there is not enough homebrew being made for it is a bit soon for a handheld that has been 'out' for only 5 weeks.

I guess you're right! Sure feels like its been years, though, for some reason ..

Well it's a lie ofcourse its 6 weeks and 3 days

this is a top25 for iphone in its first week, weve seen more exciting stuff the first week and we're not apple

http://www.rev2.org/2007/07/02/top-25-web-apps-for-the-iphone/

 

[Loonie]

Heh heh .. I suppose its okay, after all this time, for the Pandora to have a fairly mediocre software base. Actually, no I don't: I'd like for the Pandora to have software that doesn't exist anywhere else. I want Pandora to be a fertile breeding ground for mad and delightful new apps. Ports of decades-old projects are one thing: Fresh projects designed for the hardware in front of you, explicitly, is another thing entirely.

Geez, give us a chance, man. I haven't even got mine yet.

 

[Eniko]

I'd like to hear what other developers are doing to bring original stuff to the Pandora sphere. I'm sure they're out there, we just don't hear that much about it. Am I responsible for that with all my ridiculous rants? Possibly. Are you responsible for it with your "certainty" about things? Possibly. Either way, I hope other developers will tell us about the interesting things they're doing with their Pandoras, nevertheless, and to that end I resolve to stop ranting about things, certainly ..

Err... hi there?

I respect what you've done for the community, torpor, but I don't agree with your viewpoints here at all. I know there's original work for Pandora being done because hey, I am doing it! And it's entirely unrealistic to expect a lot of complete made-for-Pandora originals at this stage of the game. Hell I'd go out on a limb and say that PandoraPanic is a fluke, a marvellous, beautiful, very entertaining fluke but a fluke nonetheless.

That title got made piecemeal by lots of developers, which means that nobody lost their stamina during the Two Month wait for their Pandoras. That's what made that title possible. On the other side there's stuff like Pandora Pool Panic, Pandjoust, Wandor, and dare I mention my own Onee-sama Tasukete! and that's counting the ones I happen to know of, and the ones I know are actively being developed.

Other developers that seem to have disappeared were working on stuff like Nail's Adventure and Zombd. Maybe they'll come back and resume working on their original stuff when they get their Pandoras. And again that's off the top of my head. God knows I wouldn't even be on these boards or developing if I didn't have mine yet. In fact that's exactly what I did, I took an extended hiatus until my Pandora was in range.

So there's probably a few developers waiting on their Pandoras. Other developers - like me - are doing this shit in their spare time and probably didn't get far before their Pandoras arrived due to ennui and frustration with the wait. And original content just takes time. There hasn't been enough time to see a lot of original stuff. Heck, don't expect Onee-sama Tasukete! before the summer is out and that's something I picked because it would be a small project. Hell I'm still waiting for someone to fix the problem with PyGame being slow (I believe when scrolling), and I'm not the type of dev that can fix that herself.

If it wasn't for Gruso taking the week off I would suggest maybe doing a Pandora Original Developer roundup. Have Pandora Press do mini interviews with all the devs working on original for-Pandora titles, and then post it in one gargantuan post so everyone can see that there really is work being done.

EDIT: And mayhaps these posts need to be split away from the Aquaria thread since at this point it's starting to deserve being it's own topic.

 

[torpor]

I respect what you've done for the community, torpor, but I don't agree with your viewpoints here at all. I know there's original work for Pandora being done because hey, I am doing it!

Okay I'm with you Eniko, I apologize for hijacking this thread with a fervent rant .. I'm really looking forward to your development proving fertile ground for more discussions of this nature!

In the meantime, I'll put all my ragey energy into my own projects for the Pandora and work on a few releases to do something about what I perceive, so until then .. no more rants/trolling/flaming from me on this subject.

 

[Bosbeetle]

there are these 2 roundups

http://pandorapress.net/2010/01/22/software-roundup-deux/
http://pandorapress.net/2009/10/02/brewed-at-home-brewed-for-pandora/

thats quite some homebrew that might be on the way