Android On The Pandora

[TrashyMG]

Now I assume TrashyMG was being sarcastic here

I have trouble writing anything that isn't at least mildly sarcastic. What I wrote earlier was my full sarcasm.

 

[SNESFAN]

You can't take any Linux application and run it on Android neither! It'll still be for x86 - and even if it were for ARM - it still wouldn't run because underneath the system is almost completely different! Some of you people just don't seem to get that there's this thing called 'hardware', it's the hard stuff that you can physically touch - and it's DIFFERENT. Porting to ARM or even to the OMAP that the Pandora uses won't mean anything without some 'tweaking' and 'optimisation' done somewhere on the line - in the kernel, or application specific.

I understand most if not all linux apps will NOT work natively in android without any modification. The exact same thing goes for linux software on the pandora. Something has to be done to it first, wrapping it up or building from source... whatever! Software that's available for android is a fine enough you won't always need the added software that comes with true linux. 2 completely separate flashable images would allow for 2 different catalogs of software to be ran on the pandora.


the vast majority of android apps work on any android device without the programmer getting involved I can and have taken an app from one android device and ran the exact same file on the other 3 android devices I own different arm processors different makes different models some with keyboards some not... I did absolutely nothing to the file. Want to hear something amazing too? I took that exact file... not one like it... but the EXACT same one and put it on x86 droid running on my x86 netbook and it also perfectly fine. I don't know a whole lot about programming.. I know it worked though... and I know I didn't do a damn thing to it... so please spare me the lecture on why it's bad or inefficient or how it's not a true open os. I respect your moral objection to everything google but that's not really the topic. The topic is as seen above... porting android on the pandora.

 

[levi]

Android apps run inside a Java-like VM that Google call 'dalvik'. In other words, the apps do not run on the CPU directly, but basically always run as if they're being emulated on every system they run on. It's just like the fact you can run an original Mario ROM on a NES emulator without needing to port it. It is fairly inefficient but for most apps that's okay. However, at least some of the built-in apps run natively instead, since they need the extra speed - codecs and video players for example.

 

[SNESFAN]

Android apps run inside a Java-like VM that Google call 'dalvik'. In other words, the apps do not run on the CPU directly, but basically always run as if they're being emulated on every system they run on. It's just like the fact you can run an original Mario ROM on a NES emulator without needing to port it. It is fairly inefficient but for most apps that's okay. However, at least some of the built-in apps run natively instead, since they need the extra speed - codecs and video players for example.

console emulators seem to run fine as well.... for example the psx emulator for pandora looks to run the exact same speed as it does on the moto droid (extremely similar hardware)

https://www.youtube.com/embed/v7jB4aGGY0c?feature=oembed

 

[doublebeta]

I don't have a problem with google, or with people running Android, but what annoys me is the noobs that go around ... yeah. I just realised I said this.


I bet there are some 'Linux programs' that run fine on the Pandora too - uh everything written in Python/Perl/Java/etc, and if that doesn't count - what exactly was the same file you ran on Android and your netbook? I'm actually curious.


It IS possible to run native applications on Android - very likely that's how that emulator runs that fast, OR it's because the processor is x86(x86 generally has, and most definitely in modern systems, loads of cache as well as the ability to do multiple operations in a clock - i'm not sure if ARM does this, and I think I remember reading that they don't as they found it to be less efficient than having multiple cores instead - or was that hyperthreading?), as well as being overclocked >1GHz (that part's in the description - cba searching for that phone).


Want to hear something amazing, yet unrelated and offtopic? I ran a 64 bit x86 Linux distro, with NO 32bit compat or anything(wouldn't help anyway when the kernel is x86_64) on my brother's computer for a few weeks before I realised he didn't have a 64bit processor. I guess, it was there but it wasn't officially.

 

[SNESFAN]

I don't have a problem with google, or with people running Android, but what annoys me is the noobs that go around ... yeah. I just realised I said this.


I bet there are some 'Linux programs' that run fine on the Pandora too - uh everything written in Python/Perl/Java/etc, and if that doesn't count - what exactly was the same file you ran on Android and your netbook? I'm actually curious.


It IS possible to run native applications on Android - very likely that's how that emulator runs that fast, OR it's because the processor is x86(x86 generally has, and most definitely in modern systems, loads of cache as well as the ability to do multiple operations in a clock - i'm not sure if ARM does this, and I think I remember reading that they don't as they found it to be less efficient than having multiple cores instead - or was that hyperthreading?), as well as being overclocked >1GHz (that part's in the description - cba searching for that phone).


Want to hear something amazing, yet unrelated and offtopic? I ran a 64 bit x86 Linux distro, with NO 32bit compat or anything(wouldn't help anyway when the kernel is x86_64) on my brother's computer for a few weeks before I realised he didn't have a 64bit processor. I guess, it was there but it wasn't officially.

there's alot of noobs with android, but there's a heck of alot of talent as well. But not wanting a OS to keep certain skill level of people out. I'm not going to call you an elitist but that was an pretty elitist comment....


I ran a bunch of of apps on x86 droid .. wasn't just one... I ran dropbox, slacker radio, astro file manager, snesoid, gameboid, galcon, rom buddy, superuser... and some I don't remember, I didn't try a whole lot more but the ones I tried do "just work" You have to go in settings and check the box to allow side loading of software from the internet/sd/whereever but after you do that it's good to go forever.


that psone emulator is running on the motorola droid, it has the same arm processor and OMAP chipset as the pandora I think, that or it's extremely close. It's OC'd to 1ghz as you mentioned, the only video I found for the pandroa running psx ff7 was from 2 years ago and that wouldn't be a fair comparison, but it still goes to show.... android on pandora hardware would give acceptable results for console emulation... it wouldn't be as dog slow as some would like to believe.


I don't know exactly what you're talking about with the 64 bit linux, but right on! I know I once ran 32 bit windows xp on 64 bit proc because of the lack of 64 bit drivers for my hardware in windows xp. But when I did it the other way around 64 bit on 32 bit proc it failed to load.

 

[sebt3]

@johnsongrantr


Please stop arguing endlessly for android. If you want something done, do it.


Let me show you that using Android as base OS will reduce my freedom.


With Android as base OS, I can only launch Android Apps. I woudnt even be allowed to use the normal and standart market place but only the alternate one as you already pointed.


Personnally I want a simple OS with a few (but standard) stuff that allow me to run all the pandora software already done.


I want a system that wont be in my way if I want to use the full debian repository. Thanks to Stuckie extent system, that's done already. A Neuvoo extend should be possible and will allow us to use the gentoo repository too... So we have access to all the linux app stack already... My PND packaages are just a matter of conveiniance.


I want a system that allow me to run the full Wiz and gp2x libraries. Thank to ginge, that's already possible.


But I still want to run the android softwware stack. And it will be possible at some time when someone start working on the dalvik hack. There have been a topic about that on the other board. And I'm not hopeless it will happen.


And I want to access to the palm PRE library, and it will be possible with the current OS so will be available the maemo library.


Yep with current base OS I'm way more free with android. Yep with current base OS I already have acces to more software than with android.


But you cant know it as you don't have a pandora already nor did you followed the pandora's developpement closely enough.

 

[SNESFAN]

@johnsongrantr


Please stop arguing endlessly for android. If you want something done, do it.


Let me show you that using Android as base OS will reduce my freedom.


With Android as base OS, I can only launch Android Apps. I woudnt even be allowed to use the normal and standart market place but only the alternate one as you already pointed.


Personnally I want a simple OS with a few (but standard) stuff that allow me to run all the pandora software already done.


I want a system that wont be in my way if I want to use the full debian repository. Thanks to Stuckie extent system, that's done already. A Neuvoo extend should be possible and will allow us to use the gentoo repository too... So we have access to all the linux app stack already... My PND packaages are just a matter of conveiniance.


I want a system that allow me to run the full Wiz and gp2x libraries. Thank to ginge, that's already possible.


But I still want to run the android softwware stack. And it will be possible at some time when someone start working on the dalvik hack. There have been a topic about that on the other board. And I'm not hopeless it will happen.


And I want to access to the palm PRE library, and it will be possible with the current OS so will be available the maemo library.


Yep with current base OS I'm way more free with android. Yep with current base OS I already have acces to more software than with android.


But you cant know it as you don't have a pandora already nor did you followed the pandora's developpement closely enough.

I'm sorry, I thought everyone was free to express their opinion on internet forums? Maybe I should take my opinion elsewhere because it's not the same as yours.


Or... (and I personally like this option better) or.. you can just GTFO... your choice


If I knew how to port android (I've read and read and I've tried and tried) if it was within my skill level I would do it. It frustrates me because it's something I understand how it works but the actual action of doing it is beyond my skill level.


I should put a disclaimer in every one of my arguements.... I always have and always will be wanting android as an OPTION for an ALTERNATE OS (as in not to replace the the main OS)


you called me a troll because I support something that is unpopular around here... but I also give valid reasons! I tried to meet people half way with my arguments and give supporting and completely valid evidence... you can't find a hole in my arguments (other than misinterpret or not understand what I said) so now you're basically saying "do something about it or shut up"


I am so in agreement that there is the majority of gnu linux users that are agianst all that is android and how you don't want it or would never use it or support it... and this is obviously not a topic of discussion you are interested in, but to come into this topic about porting android and put reasons as why someone should NOT put the effort into adding a significant amount of new and otherwise non available software just DOES NOT MAKE SENCE!


I will not call YOU a troll but what would people call me if I went into a pandora supporter thread and said "I think the pandora sucks because it doesn't run windows software" I'll leave that decision on you.


"But you cant know it as you don't have a pandora already nor did you followed the pandora's developpement closely enough"


Now this last sentence has touched me in a way that that non other statement has ever, due to how utterly untrue it is.


I have followed this project extremely closely as I am a day one preorder (was told 450ish at ed's shop) I've recommended this product to every geek friend I have... how dare you tell me how much I havn't follow this project close enough!? 2+ years my friend... I've been following and supporting this since before you could even preorder..


How in the HELL is my opinion any less valid because I ordered a few hours later than you did during the first day over 2 years ago!?!. PISS OFF!!!!!!

 

[Nation.A.List]

I was hoping this would be a thread for those who wanted to consider using Android on their Pandora NOT a thread for those who don't want to use it, to just knock it

 

[sebt3]

dl;tr


We all want to have android running on Pandora as alternate OS. We just need someone to do it. Do you think that those with the ability to do it don't see the point of doing so ? pretty insulting imho...


I call you troll because of your agressivness, and your bad comparaisons that just seems to means all the work already done is just like shit.

 

[Yannick]

I agree with most android naysayers here, i'll never use it on my panda myself.


But let me try adding something productive to this thread.


disclaimer: as a programmer my definition of the verb *working* does not conform to the views of consumers. And i am typing this out from memory, so no promises, i might try this sometime when i get my pandora and i have nothing to do for a whole week.


EDIT: all this assumes the beagleboard android port works perfectly


There's a guide floating around on howto run the pandora OS from an SD card.


follow this guide, replace "kernel" with "omap android kernel" and "rootfs" with "omap android rootfs"


try to boot it!


the beagleboard and the pandora use the same chips, but in a different configuration.


I fully expect that android kernel to boot and probably kernel panic. if you are lucky something other than the kernel will lock up (got further in the boot process)


from this point, it's a matter of figuring out the pandora's hardware quirks (look at the patches in pandora git)


get networking and 3D acceleration running


poof instant pandora android port.


if god exists, it's as simple as this


unfortunatly, you will get into tons of annoying little bugs that will take ages to debug/fix


this is the part where you will need alot of good linux/android geeks to test the project

 

[SNESFAN]

dl;tr


We all want to have android running on Pandora as alternate OS. We just need someone to do it. Do you think that those with the ability to do it don't see the point of doing so ? pretty insulting imho...


I call you troll because of your agressivness, and your bad comparaisons that just seems to means all the work already done is just like shit.

here, this may help, looks like you may need it on your journeys cause obviously you don't understand either

tl;dr

"too long; didn't read."


1. The inability to accept, understand or pay attention to information when not separated by a header.


2. The ability to arbitrarily read 400 small posts but not a long one.


3. A sign of ADD or lack of reading capability.


4. A very cheap response and an indication of lack of wit.


5. 90% of the time: A lie.


6. A desperate attempt at a comeback used by people who just can't think of one.


7. Usually used by people who've been torn apart verbally but want one last attempt at looking witty.


8. Total failure at #7.


9. A sign that, not only is someone too lazy and stupid to read but, clearly, too lazy and stupid to even type out four words indicating such.


10. Collect every "tl,dr" post online, and you'll have a good estimate of the number of lazy idiots on Earth, who currently have Internet access.


11. Should really be:


"Too Lazy, Don't Read."


or,


".....I got nut'n!"

EDIT: append to number 9, or spell it correctly

troll

One who purposely and deliberately (that purpose usually being self-amusement) starts an argument in a manner which attacks others on a forum without in any way listening to the arguments proposed by his or her peers. He will spark of such an argument via the use of ad hominem attacks (i.e. 'you're nothing but a fanboy' is a popular phrase) with no substance or relevence to back them up as well as straw man arguments, which he uses to simply avoid addressing the essence of the issue.

 

[DJKoma]

As i have posteed in another thread, Android as an alternative OS on the Pandora is one of my dreams. I can't understand why it seems to be such a nightmare for others, since they can simply ignore it.

 

[Mongo]

As i have posteed in another thread, Android as an alternative OS on the Pandora is one of my dreams. I can't understand why it seems to be such a nightmare for others, since they can simply ignore it.

Some people need to get laid more often.

 

[Mr_Loon]

As i have posteed in another thread, Android as an alternative OS on the Pandora is one of my dreams. I can't understand why it seems to be such a nightmare for others, since they can simply ignore it.

+1 My feelings exactly.


My inner geek would love to have an easy way of trying multiple open source operating systems on the Pandora. Just for the joy of tinkering about with them.

 

[elwing]

As i have posteed in another thread, Android as an alternative OS on the Pandora is one of my dreams. I can't understand why it seems to be such a nightmare for others, since they can simply ignore it.

I completly agree with that... as long as no one ask OPT to officially support Android...

 

[Yannick]

Some people need to get laid more often.

Getting laid more often is always a nice thing, but it's more of a hacker-culture thingie.


People posting they want it, exert some sort of social pressure/request to make it happen.


The people that can make it happen are still frustrated by the current os (ancient kernel, no package repo)


in this culture, the GPL claims freedom to fork/whatever you want, but in reality this only happens when the project owner (creater, most experienced memeber) refuses to cooperate with the community. Nobody (capable) has yet stepped up to be pandora android maintainer (there's already a debian and a gentoo maintianer)


from this point of view, requesting(/demanding) android be made for pandora, you are in effect rude against the freedom of capable people.


believe me when i say, the first to provide a somewhat booting android port will be considered a hero by many and will have a fulltime hobby/job just handling the stream of patches comming in.


short version of the above:


"show me your sources"

 

[MarkoeZ]

I did not mention this before because i thought something interesting might evolve, but somebody should move this topic to a different section. The title is misleading being in "Software News" and the discussion is nowhere near constructive anymore.


my 2 cents

 

[doublebeta]

I'm sorry, I thought everyone was free to express their opinion on internet forums? Maybe I should take my opinion elsewhere because it's not the same as yours.


Or... (and I personally like this option better) or.. you can just GTFO... your choice


If I knew how to port android (I've read and read and I've tried and tried) if it was within my skill level I would do it. It frustrates me because it's something I understand how it works but the actual action of doing it is beyond my skill level.


I should put a disclaimer in every one of my arguements.... I always have and always will be wanting android as an OPTION for an ALTERNATE OS (as in not to replace the the main OS)


you called me a troll because I support something that is unpopular around here... but I also give valid reasons! I tried to meet people half way with my arguments and give supporting and completely valid evidence... you can't find a hole in my arguments (other than misinterpret or not understand what I said) so now you're basically saying "do something about it or shut up"


I am so in agreement that there is the majority of gnu linux users that are agianst all that is android and how you don't want it or would never use it or support it... and this is obviously not a topic of discussion you are interested in, but to come into this topic about porting android and put reasons as why someone should NOT put the effort into adding a significant amount of new and otherwise non available software just DOES NOT MAKE SENCE!


I will not call YOU a troll but what would people call me if I went into a pandora supporter thread and said "I think the pandora sucks because it doesn't run windows software" I'll leave that decision on you.


"But you cant know it as you don't have a pandora already nor did you followed the pandora's developpement closely enough"


Now this last sentence has touched me in a way that that non other statement has ever, due to how utterly untrue it is.


I have followed this project extremely closely as I am a day one preorder (was told 450ish at ed's shop) I've recommended this product to every geek friend I have... how dare you tell me how much I havn't follow this project close enough!? 2+ years my friend... I've been following and supporting this since before you could even preorder..


How in the HELL is my opinion any less valid because I ordered a few hours later than you did during the first day over 2 years ago!?!. PISS OFF!!!!!!

Here I agree completely with johnsongrantr, you are free to have your opinion anywhere. It's basic human rights really.


But why does everyone think i'm an elitist? I do NOT have a problem with 'noobs', I have a problem with noobs that get waay ahead of themselves and become elitist without any foundation. Really what I wanted to point out is that Android on the Pandora is not a cure for cancer and aids and will not feed those in poverty. I guess I should take that effective communications class, I fucking hate the English language.

How in the HELL is my opinion any less valid because I ordered a few hours later than you did during the first day over 2 years ago!?!. PISS OFF!!!!!!

>.> agreed.


Buut Yannick raises a very good point - there are what seems to be demands being made (they're really not to me, I see them as suggestions...) that would restrict the freedom of those capable if such 'demands' were to be met. Might I clear up, 'hacker' does not mean anything about computer security. The hacker subculture is about programming, and only programming, with generally the feeling that things should be free. And Yannick is in a way pointing out that the freedom is there, you can go port, but you can't always be spoon fed - I'm sure you know this. I'm _not_ saying that's what you're asking for, stuff done immediately with no effort on your part. It was a bit much for Yannick to ask you to prove yourself like that.


...I gotta agree with Mongo - I think we all(including/especially me!) should take some time AWAY from computers - but will that happen? Not likely .


But what have I done here? I always seem to end up the axis to everything that is good and nice(not alone). I'm not saying you should not port Android to the Pandora - I never meant to say never. But I really think it should not be a task for OpenPandora Ltd's developers, it should be and remain an unpayed, community thing. There seems to be a sort of balance that must be maintained, not restricting the freedom and rights of people to port OSes without being shunned by the community, as well as not making Android so accepted that it's required to run most Pandora-intended programs. There are skilled Android programmers, and as much as I hate to admit it, some really skilled programmers for Apple's range (not Apple themselves, I still have my opinion - "They suck"). But GNU/Linux is a system that is loved by the people who are in my opinion, the best of the very best. My opinion. You're free to belive otherwise.


I'd love to see a NetBSD port - i'm considering working on this myself. I'd be willing to try the challenge, in a way I hope nobody else attempts this so I have some reason to make the port - Don't feel like you shouldn't have a try - i'm not promising that I will make a port .


Being Pandoraless it would be very difficult to attempt a port yet- I haven't even had a look at NetBSD's kernel!


Sorry for me appearing elitist in any way, i'm sorry you feel that way. I'd encourage a port, right now - Good Luck Android devs! And i'm not saying they should NOT, not making any demands, but I ask that the OpenPandora team supports Pandora Linux and only Pandora Linux(as opposed to alternative OSes) until all the quirky drivers and libraries are all 100% sorted.


EDIT: I cannot agree more that anything you don't like on a forum should be ignored, not pissed all over, and I for one am sorry! Will anyone actually ever do this? Probably not. I guess, that's just what happens. It's why there's a flamewar burning every second of every day somewhere on the internet. I should also add a disclaimer to each port I make to ensure this crap doesn't happen. I'm part of the group that lit this flamewar we have burning here too. And i'm sorry.


And btw - I'm not sure how i'd go about porting Android either - because I haven't yet learned how to access any of the Pandora's hardware - you often take it for granted but a cpu is no good without the rest of the stuff, it's common for video output to become the most complicated part of a supercomputer system . I should do a bit of digging and see how to get a simple text console and have a go at porting my old x86 DIY OS


EDIT2: these edits are going to keep coming ad infinitum, so i'll stop after this. Arguing in this thread was a mistake, I should never have said anything since I haven't really contributed anything positive - all i've done so far is complain that one person had an idea. And it's strange, having been all about freedom, to now have been trying to keep order, and force everything the same. What was I doing, writing zeros to everybody's freedom? And so we see how easy it is for somebody to appear elitist, to attempt to assume power, to 'be on a high horse'. I understand now. My message to everyone is be careful, do not say anything without swapping everything around, and trying it out yourself. Think to whenever you tried to get someone to make a Linux port of their program, or perhaps driver (haven't we all done this somewhere at least once?). And when they denied you with "Linux is crap, no!" how did it feel? It sucks, hey? All of us who said there should not be a port should bow our heads in shame now, I have. None of us are free software dudes if we've prevented anyone's freedom here in this thread. Because we've taken away that all important element - freedom.


I've opened my eyes now, I will allow porting in my software to Android because I had forgotten what the GPL is all about. I can't have a GPL as well as denying something like that.


Yeah incase you are do lazy and didn't read this admittedly huge post - i've realised that I tried to take away the freedom of others - became what I was saying not to do. Oops. I've realised you can't always tell people to RTFM, and before we say something is a stupid suggestion, we should think if it really is. "So easy to condemn, so hard to create.".

 

[moz]

well said.


Flame war = over.