Am I The Only One? (Please Read Before Voting)

[Edy]

Sorry for bringing up this again, but the decision of using the GP2X layout for the ABXY buttons has been a major disappointment to me, and I need to know if I'm really who is wrong. I KNOW it's a minor annoyance, but is SO easy to solve and give the Pandora a (IMHO) correct identity regarding this point, that I truly believe it's ridiculous not to do it and leave the GP2X layout.

 Y
A B
 X

Here are the poll options explained:

1 ) This is the procedure that *everyone* will have to follow the first time any application, game, or emulator is run:

- What's the main button? A, X, or B? here is A. Ok, let's go.
- (another application) here the main button is X. Ok, let's go.
- (another one) here the main button is B. Ok, let's go.
and so on.

In the GP2X lauout, A, B, and X buttons have all the same possibilities for being designated as the logical "main" button for any piece of software in the Pandora. It's just a choice of the developer. So EVERYONE not only need to learn what's the main button the first time an application is run, but they will need also to remember the main button for each specific software.

If the user has no problem on doing this on each piece of software in Pandora, as they probably are used to do the same in GP2X, then everything's ok.

2 ) Many users will want to change the main button of applications to their prefered button. So the first time any application is run:

- What's the main button? Here is A. Ok, it's my prefered button, let's go.
- (another application) Here is B. Does this application provides a way to configure it? Yes! Ok, configured, let's go.
- (another one) Here is X. Can be configured within the application? Ops! Nope! *sigh*, ok let's play anyways.

3 ) Picky users will use the OS-level tools (i.e. xmodmap) in order to configure those applications that doesn't provide an easy way to configure the buttons. But, as far as I know, this would require linux basic skills, a per-application script, and/or a configuration file.

- What's the main button? Here is A. Ok, it's my prefered button, let's go.
- (another application) Here is B. Does this application provides a way to configure it? Yes! Ok, configured, let's go.
- (another one) Here is X. Can be configured within the application? Ops! Nope! ok, let's create a script, perform the appropiate remaps, and launch the application. Let's go.


The above situations are all caused by the GP2X button layout. Whether it's an important subject or not, that's up to each one. But it will be that way!

What disappoints me is the fact that this could be bypassed by simply adopting almost any other layout for the ABXY buttons instead of the GP2X one. Any layout that clearly designates a logical main button would create an standard for the developers for choosing the logical main-secondary buttons. All (most) aplications would then use the same scheme. Those users that doesn't like that standard main-secondary buttons could *globally* remap the buttons ONCE for all (a configuration tool could be developed) so all applications would then use the prefered buttons as main-secondary. Even they could physically exchange the buttons at their places. Am I really SO wrong on thinking this way??

 Y     Y     Y     X     X     Y
X B   B A   X A   Y B   Y A   B X
 A     X     B     A     B     A

Any of these layouts would be preferible to the GP2X one. In all of them, the main button would be A. The secondary button would be either B or X depending on each layout (main and secondary buttons would be the at lower-right positions, the most accesible positions with the thumb).

Any "official" pronouncement (craig, evildragon) would also be greatly appreciated.

 

[Awakening]

I think with the current setup A should be the main button, and B being the back/cancel button. I would love to switch places between A and X (and keep A as the main) but if there's a problem with that configuration I can live with it as it is.

 

[EmuGuy]

Will we have to reconfigure our buttons (and/or scripts) everytime there's an update to an application? Sorry if that's a dumb question. I remember configuring my GP2X buttons for PicoDrive, but can't remember if I did it each time.

 

[droneb]

if it was OS do-able and the pieces were all the same (switchable) why not just open you panda up and switch em then reconfigure the Software side.

 

[gruso]

I'm scared of this topic. Very scared.

People will say the arrangement of letters doesn't matter, because you don't read the letters every time you mash them during gameplay. Which has some truth to it. But I agree with what you say in regard to the GP2X. At the end of the day we're not just talking about a bunch of letters, we're talking about the real impact it will have on software design.

I've made peace with my demons on this issue though ^_^ I'll happily accept what I get, and if a game doesn't feel right to me I'll remap using whatever options are available.

 

[WizardStan]

tl;dr;
Got a problem with the layout, just open it up, swap the keys around, and remap them. X can do that. No need for a poll.

 

[Sphinxter]

The layout is correct and I'm not reading it either;
X - execute or enter
B - back or escape.
Which is the same button location layout as every console ever played, screw the labels, only a loser looks at their thumbs anyway and you're focusing on them.

 

[skeezix]

I dont get it. Honestly.

They could be blank for all I care.. It's just a label. Does sonys square/circle/etc mean anything?

No, what matters is the devs use a consistent system, no?

I really don't get it am I missing something?

(ive nothing to do with that piece of firmware

jeff

 

[Exophase]

What? I didn't realize the bottom button is the "main" button just because that's what Sony has been doing.. and only in America at that. In my stuff I've always used the right button as the "select" because that's what things have been doing on Nintendo consoles since forever ago. Even on PS1 "circle" feels more like a confirm label than "cross" which seems like you want to undo something.

Anyway, your argument is seriously based on nothing, I think it's time to get over it >_>

 

[fearofshorts]

Look, what he's really worried about is that nobody will create or comply with control standards (eg: A for 'yes', B for 'no'), forcing you to customize each and every application. And that is justified. It would suck to be sitting there, playing a game, then swap out to your music player (minimizing the game), scroll through the list with a nub and press the A button (as you just did in game to shoot)... Only to remember too late that that particular button on the player closes it.

This is a pretty silly scenario, I'll admit, but the basic principal stands: we need a standard for the layout keys. We are working with one of the first handhelds ever to attempt a multitasking OS, and we'd damn well better get it right now- before it's too late.

 

[droneb]

They could be blank for all I care.. It's just a label. Does sonys square/circle/etc mean anything?

yes they do
O for Maru (yes/accept)
X for Iee (no/cancel)
for the others well just figures.

(yes thats why Jap games always used o for accept instead of X)

 

[gruso]

No, what matters is the devs use a consistent system, no?

That's it.

 

[chickendung]

If you have a problem with the layout change it yourself. No joke... pop open the case change the position of the keys, go into your settings and change them.

and yes... I did refuse to read this.

edit: PSH! ninja'd..

Are you sure you can easily rearrange the buttons? On most controllers and/or consoles there are little sticks that pop out around the button so it's "locked" to the designed position without some modification to each button. If it IS possible, I think I'll change the button layout to match the Super Nintendo controller, seeing as that is the one the Pandora's controls could resemble most easily. I'm no software developer though, so the menus in the OS could get confusing. I wonder if someone could create a configuration tool for different button layouts for use with the various GUI's...

 

[absolofdoom]

Gah! There are enough of these already. We get it, some people don't care, some people really want a certain layout, some people want a crazy layout, etc. This just gets really old. However they're going to make the layout is how they're going to make the layout; we'll just have to deal with whatever that is.

 

[gruso]

Are you sure you can easily rearrange the buttons? On most controllers and/or consoles there are little sticks that pop out around the button so it's "locked" to the designed position without some modification to each button. If it IS possible, I think I'll change the button layout to match the Super Nintendo controller, seeing as that is the one the Pandora's controls could resemble most easily. I'm no software developer though, so the menus in the OS could get confusing. I wonder if someone could create a configuration tool for different button layouts for use with the various GUI's...

Yes to all. They've allowed for button relocation in the design - both in the design of the buttons themselves, and in the OS. If I understand it correctly, you'll be able to set it up so that "A" is "A" (etc) no matter where you move it to.

 

[kagato]

They could be blank for all I care.. It's just a label. Does sonys square/circle/etc mean anything?

yes they do
O for Maru (yes/accept)
X for Iee (no/cancel)
for the others well just figures.

As stated previously -- numeric order based on number of lines/edges.
O = 1 (ok)
X = 2 (cancel)
Δ = 3
[] = 4

 

[senquack]

Do you want an issue that's actually worth caring about?

Here, I'll give it to you:

It would me much better to provide a standard way of reading the buttons, kind of like /dev/GPIO on the GP2X for all applications or libraries to use. This way, there will always be an added layer that allows for user-customizable button remapping no matter what the author provided for. The way it is now on the GP2X, only apps using SDL can use my Open2X button remapping. If they read the registers directly or used Rlyeh's minlib, there's no way to remap the buttons.

 

[PokeParadox]

No, what matters is the devs use a consistent system, no?

That's it.

That's exactly it.
I'll say again that I don't care what the buttons are called... I just want to know that a standard layout is finalised so that software can be designed to take advantage of the default control scheme.

I play games with button location in mind and not with labels. Although (A-Accept and B-Back, O-ok X-Cancel) makes a lot of sense to me.
So it seems that we are hundred percent decided that the layout is same as the GP2X. Good. Just stay with one layout as a standard one, please?

 

[MDave]

There IS something that's bothering me, and that is PMenu, or rather the skins.

See, when we designed skins for it, we were told A was confirm and B was cancel thus EVERY skin made for Pmenu has this in the dialog box when you want to favorite/unfavorite something. As we know, the Pandora's layout is now the same as the GP2X. The buttons are part of the dialog box itself, so it would mean everyone that has designed skins would need to go and edit them so they say X or whatever it is for confirm instead of A and send them off to the FTP again, and I don't know if all the authors are aware of this problem.

I have a feeling my post is going to be overlooked anyway ... so I guess we'll see what happens.

 

[Sphinxter]

They could be blank for all I care.. It's just a label. Does sonys square/circle/etc mean anything?

yes they do
O for Maru (yes/accept)
X for Iee (no/cancel)
for the others well just figures.

As stated previously -- numeric order based on number of lines/edges.
O = 1 (ok)
X = 2 (cancel)
Δ = 3
[] = 4

I think what's important here is that I associate Max Payne jumping with my thumb on the bottom button, regardless of what symbol is on it.

ed; oh and not getting sued into oblivion by sony or nintendo.